RE: PH Heroes: Honda Integra Type-R

[AntiguaBill]

i KNEW that was keddleston hall!

I gotta stop reading this thread, or i will become £7k in debt very very soon!

[joesnow]

well spotted. Boxing day 2007

[Eddh]

Chris_R said:

and threading a few corners together down the Chepstow - Monmouth road...

fk me what a road! Try the Chepstow - Raglan and the Raglan - Abergavenny ones as well.

[havoc]

pbirkett said:

gmackay2 said:

i had a wee play with one of these recently on a late winter's evening when the roads were quite greasy, and they don't exactly go round slippy roundabouts very well, the guy just understeered straight on and nearly put it into a grass banking, meanwhile me with my ASC (e39 sport)doing its stuff was able to briskly go round the roundabout as well as brake and avoid the ITR ploughing straight on! Also the guy must have tuned his up quite a bit cos it did sound good, but it just couldn't put any power down i think he was spinning right up to 4th, while again i pulled away every time and mine must weigh twice the ITR???? A lot of respect for them but would never buy one.

Either something wrong with the car, or the driver was a complete tool, wet roundabouts are one of the best things about the ITR, great fun

Not necessarily. RE010's are at their worst on greasy surfaces - they're OK with standing water, great in the dry, but the compound just can't seem to key into newly-wet/greasy conditions. And if you try and carry anywhere near dry-conditions levels of speed into a corner, the car will understeer, potentially quite a lot. The trick is to brake very late and get the fronts gripping early and the backs slipping early, 'pivot' the car around.

...which isn't the usual method of driving on the road, so this chap that GM's describing may well have been on RE010's and been a bit too enthusiastic...


GM - ASC is sort of cheating though, isn't it?!? Without it I'd venture your big ol' beast would've behaved exactly like the 'teg! Granted though wet traction, esp. at low speeds/high revs, is probably the DC2's weakest point...

[dinkel]

joesnow said:

This is turning into a realfanboy thread! Great stuff.

Try Jap Chat every now and then

Nice snaps.

[gmackay2]

GM - ASC is sort of cheating though, isn't it?!? wink Without it I'd venture your big ol' beast would've behaved exactly like the 'teg! Granted though wet traction, esp. at low speeds/high revs, is probably the DC2's weakest point...
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in response to Havoc- i hadn't actually seen my ASC in action prior to that evening, but i have to say i was well impressed at how it kept the car nailed to the road. As for the ITR driver, well he did look like a bit of a ned with a huuuuuuuge exhaust on it and massive rims! It was all in good fun though! Now just wait til i get my M5 then lets go and have some real fun!!!! ahahaha

[havoc]

gmackay2 said:

Now just wait til i get my M5 then lets go and have some real fun!!!! ahahaha

Only if I can pick the roads though...

[zorba_the_greek]

Not bad for a 9 year old!

Best car ive owned to date.

Edited by zorba_the_greek on Friday 2nd May 13:09

[steve z]

Eddh said:

Chris_R said:

and threading a few corners together down the Chepstow - Monmouth road...

fk me what a road! Try the Chepstow - Raglan and the Raglan - Abergavenny ones as well.

You should try this circuit:-

Chepstow to Monmouth B4293
Monmouth to Abergavenny B4233
Abergavenny to Usk B4598
Usk to Chepstow B4235

Wow!

[cwoodsie2]

Just to echo the comments above - had mine a couple of years now and after coming from a 205GTi it felt weird for the first 6 months as I got used to being able manipulate the rear wheels and feel exactly what every component of the car is doing. The only time you knew what the rear wheels were doing on my pug' were when they overtook you shortly before you hit the hedge/tree/roundabout/wall etc....

Mine's still a completely standard UKDM model and fighting the urges to change the brakes/manifold/exhaust is becoming increasingly difficult. Have a look the itr-dc2 forum as loads of great information and articles.

And I simply love the fact mine feels lumpy and awkward unless I give it a bit of beans! Driving it around town she really is unhappy and begs to be driven hard. It's almost as if the engine needs full use of the rev range to be at its best.

The teg is also brilliantly practical. Mines swallowed a couple of mountain bikes and bags on numerous occassions and the seats are the best i've ever sat in by a mile.

Joesnow - great write up and the only car i'd swap mine for would be an E36 M3 as I think it's the only bang-for-buck alternative out there. Think i'll keep the 'teg a bit longer.......

[joesnow]

cheers. The old E36 needed some fettling, but is indeed an M bargain - that's a different thread altogether.

ITR = Value and common sense, oh yeah and bloody good fun.

Edited by joesnow on Friday 2nd May 14:07

[Steve Gunnis]

I test drove an E36 M3 Coupe, I was severely unimpressed and the behavior it exhibited in the corners around Goodwood made me feel quite nervous in the passenger seat. Driving my ITR home, I realised I already had the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' of those two anyway.

As for the comment about understeer, what a load of cobblers! I'll see you on track and we'll see who has more understeer, your RWD 525 or my FWD Integra. Understeer is never an issue unless your tyres are bald, even then it's pretty neutral. Our pool car at work was a 525, all I can say is it was the dullest, slowest car I've ever driven, my 18 year old 205 GTi I had at the time would have pulled it's pants down, even on the motorway! Yours of course may be a very different machine, much more capable than a poorly modded Integra, chances are it was 'slammed' ruining the handling and exhibiting said 'understeer' meaning your electronic trickery ruled the roads that day.

[havoc]

Steve Gunnis said:

As for the comment about understeer, what a load of cobblers!

Steve, see my post above. Driven in the wrong conditions on RE010s, a 'teg can quite easily display understeer unless you make a point to drive around it.

And please quit with the aggression - this has been pretty good natured up until now...

[rallycross]

havoc said:

Steve Gunnis said:

As for the comment about understeer, what a load of cobblers!

Steve, see my post above. Driven in the wrong conditions on RE010s, a 'teg can quite easily display understeer unless you make a point to drive around it.

And please quit with the aggression - this has been pretty good natured up until now...

Why not get a bit under the collar if someone is talking rubbish (which we have above). rubbish deserves a suitable response.

I've owned three and driven them all on circuits, on a variety of tyres. They are not understeery, although any car (fwd) or not can be made to understeer with a ham-fisted driver at the controls....

[Steve Gunnis]

havoc said:

Steve Gunnis said:

As for the comment about understeer, what a load of cobblers!

Steve, see my post above. Driven in the wrong conditions on RE010s, a 'teg can quite easily display understeer unless you make a point to drive around it.

And please quit with the aggression - this has been pretty good natured up until now...

Sorry. Didn't mean to sound aggressive, I agree with you about the understeer, that's why I said 'on worn tyres'. I wasn't referring to your post. I would say that most cars display understeer in this situation though, I was just making the point that BMW drivers who like to make out a FWD car automatically has lots of understeer don't know what they're talking about, they're just recapitulating the tired old diatribe about RWD being the purist's choice because it's the only thing they think their Kraut-barge has over a car like the ITR, but it doesn't. The E30 M3 is the only performance BMW I would consider to be an equal to the ITR in driver feedback and involvement.

[havoc]

Steve Gunnis said:

I would say that most cars display understeer in this situation though, I was just making the point that BMW drivers who like to make out a FWD car automatically has lots of understeer don't know what they're talking about, they're just recapitulating the tired old diatribe about RWD being the purist's choice because it's the only thing they think their Kraut-barge has over a car like the ITR, but it doesn't. The E30 M3 is the only performance BMW I would consider to be an equal to the ITR in driver feedback and involvement.

Agree with all of that!

Although I wouldn't put most other M-cars far behind in those stakes...I'd say they're more deficient in immediacy/agility (than in feedback/involvement) ...but then they're in a slightly different market...

[RCduck7]

havoc said:

DC2-ITR said:

Not only did Autocar rate the DC2 UK ITR as the best alround front wheel drive car EVER. But the Jap version is EVEN BETTER.

Better looking front.
Faster (more powerful and lighter).
Better steering (Faster and lighter feeling Showa rack - UK = Wooden).
Firmer suspension.
The list goes on..

The UK look ITR was the base model look in Japan. Say no more...

Both cars are great. But the JDM import exceptional.
Awesome piece of kit... :-))

The differences aren't as great as all that, certainly not straight-line (first I've heard that the JDM was lighter - any evidence of that one?). I also wasn't aware the steering racks were different, and the stiffer suspension can be a liability on a typical UK B-road - the UKDM suspension is IMHO borderline for an everyday car...

...so IMHO buy on looks and condition, regardless of UK/JDM.


RCDuck - I own both. S2000 is quicker, is agile rwd (always a bonus! ), and has the soft-top. But it's also less communicative - both the steering and the brake-pedal lack the 'granularity' you get from the 'teg, which makes it harder to push anywhere near 10/10ths, and makes it less rewarding as a result. Plus the S2000 suspension doesn't seem quite as well-matched - there's a slight mismatch at the rear which can result in a slight side-to-side pitching if heavily loaded on a bumpy B-road...we're talking illegal speeds here though. 'teg also has better seats and a better sound.

Look here for an in-depth comparison I wrote...

Thanks or the comparison.
Although the S2000 is still a wondefull car if you take it above 6000rpm and it sticks to the road it can behave badly or mismatched as you say, it has to be driven with respect.
Rightnow i drive a VX220 which is a bit more hardcore, a bit spartan, more a driverscar but no luxury which my wife doesn't like in comparison with the S2000.
I actually like the vx220 more in this respect but sometimes i still miss the screamerengine and wondefull gearbox the S2000 has, allthough the VX220 has more torque which i missed in the S2000.
But this summer i'm gonna install a bigger inlet and bigger gasket and sportsexhaust to the vx220.
From what i read in forums from members who did the mod it should transform the engine significant in the higher revs, a bit like the honda engines, so i'm looking forward to this.

[rallycross]

havoc said:

Steve Gunnis said:

I would say that most cars display understeer in this situation though, I was just making the point that BMW drivers who like to make out a FWD car automatically has lots of understeer don't know what they're talking about, they're just recapitulating the tired old diatribe about RWD being the purist's choice because it's the only thing they think their Kraut-barge has over a car like the ITR, but it doesn't. The E30 M3 is the only performance BMW I would consider to be an equal to the ITR in driver feedback and involvement.

Agree with all of that!

Although I wouldn't put most other M-cars far behind in those stakes...I'd say they're more deficient in immediacy/agility (than in feedback/involvement) ...but then they're in a slightly different market...

I was lucky enough to own an E30 M3 and a DC2 type R at the same time, interesting to compare the 2 of them... was expecting the E30 to be amazing...

My E30 was not the greatest example (but was a reasonable one), however the Honda blew it away in every respect. Probably in 15 years time the Integra Type R will be eulogised over by journalists in the same way the M3 E30 is today...

Both great cars, if I had the option of a 10 yr old type R or a 17 yr old M3 I'd take the Type R every time, road or track. (but if someone offered me a brand new E30 M3 I'd have to take it!)

[EvoBarry]

A mate of mine had a similar E30 M3 and we had a few playful tussles on track and road, pace wise there was nothing in it most of the time, but I must admit I was surprised how soft the (admittedly older) M3 felt after the Honda, body roll and control wasn't quite as well contained, brakes weren't as good. Still, as driving goes it was very nice indeed "despite" these shortcomings

[havoc]

E30 M3 or ITR?!? It's not like it's a hardship choice, is it?!?


Hell, TBH most of the cars on this thread so far are "ooh yes please" cars - VX220, S2000, Corrado VR6, even the (largely unfairly) maligned E36 M3! That the ITR is standing comparison against all of them (let alone appearing to come out on top) is true kudos...