Just something to see if it works. Mod on Duty!

[ATM]

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

[anonymous-user]

hadenough! said:

wsurfa said:

I might be getting too tempted... been looking through some MB forums and saw a write up for DIY replacement. Took 2 hours (another took 5 hours with some hard to remove plugs), so wouldn't be surprised if MB was charging 2-2.5hrs hours labour and £10/plug = c£500

Not gonna flog the bm are you?

Definitely not - that will stay, probably for a long time

[anonymous-user]

Atmospheric said:

I know, I know. I can't help looking. Twelve cylinders:



http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

I can't help but consider the Phaeton as little more than a novelty. Novelty V10 diesel engine that was essentially pointless as it offered all the fuel consumption of a petrol engine but with all of the intrinsic negatives of a diesel. Or maybe you would rather have the Novelty W12 engine that offered superior complexity to a real V12 but with no benefits that anybody could actually give a monkeys about? Or perhaps it's the novelty "who overfed their Passat!" styling that appeals?

Yes it's interesting and will forever stand as a monument to the arrogance and hubris of Ferdinand Piëch, and I am glad VAG briefly went mad and decided to do something so obviously doomed to failure, but I feel no desire to buy into that tastelessly veneered dream.

ETA - Just followed the link and saw it was an A8. I'm gonna say that just shows how all VAG cars look the same, and I was thinking about Phaetons from the earlier posts....

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 15:44

[BIRMA]

dme123 said:

Atmospheric said:

I know, I know. I can't help looking. Twelve cylinders:



http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

I can't help but consider the Phaeton as little more than a novelty. Novelty V10 diesel engine that was essentially pointless as it offered all the fuel consumption of a petrol engine but with all of the intrinsic negatives of a diesel. Or maybe you would rather have the Novelty W12 engine that offered superior complexity to a real V12 but with no benefits that anybody could actually give a monkeys about? Or perhaps it's the novelty "who overfed their Passat!" styling that appeals?

Yes it's interesting and will forever stand as a monument to the arrogance and hubris of Ferdinand Piëch, and I am glad VAG briefly went mad and decided to do something so obviously doomed to failure, but I feel no desire to buy into that tastelessly veneered dream.

ETA - Just followed the link and saw it was an A8. I'm gonna say that just shows how all VAG cars look the same, and I was thinking about Phaetons from the earlier posts....

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 15:44

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

[anonymous-user]

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 diesel over a proper engine though, even for £5k. Maybe if it was actually any more efficient than a 300bhp petrol V8, but it's not and thus defeats the only point in having a diesel engine in a passenger car. Even the W12 only gets 4mpg less.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 18:02

[BIRMA]

dme123 said:

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 oil burner over a proper engine though, even for £5k.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 17:59

I know we all have a wide variety of reasons as to why we buy the cars we own but for me I needed a car as a University Taxi going from Portsmouth to Norwich. Before choosing the Phaeton I tried and seriously considered the Cayenne Turbo S the Lexus LS 600 and the ISf Lexus. In the end despite the Phaeton being less than half the original budget of the cars I tried I still think I made the right choice.
There are not many cars on the market where you can cruise along the endless motorways and get well over 35 mpg in the sort of silent double glazed comfort of air-conditioned massaging seats that the Phaeton provides, in fact I haven't been this enthusiastic over a car for as long as I can remember. If it goes seriously wrong I will have to consider throwing it away but until then I'll enjoy the fact that it can leave most cars as specs in the rear view mirror when you need to call on the massive turn of speed these cars have at just over tick-over it's very addictive but does bring the fuel consumption down to 22

[BIRMA]

Question is are the tumbling fuel prices going to put up the prices of big gas guzzling barges?

[anonymous-user]

BIRMA said:

Blown2CV said:

BIRMA said:

They share the same running gear as my Phaeton and a few instruments too. Not sure I like the looks either and the fact there isn't a V10 oil burner option.

yea that's the first thing i think of when i think of bentleys, they're st because there's no diesel option... jesus christ.

Indeed, having 750 Nm of torque at just over tick over as standard which is easily re-mapped to nearly 900Nm and 30 MPG would make it st wouldn't it.

Without wanting to turn this into a diesel vs petrol debate, the V10 TDI makes its headline torque figure for a few hundred RPM and then trails off rapidly. The W12 TT makes 660NM of torque at 1800RPM or so (I.E Its still making monstrous torque sooner than the V10 TDI) and what's more important, it keeps ahold of it for thousands upon thousands of RPM. The torque curve is literally a straight line for most of the rev range.

I get the whole 'torque' thing when representing diesels, but picking a fight with a 12 cylinder twin turbo petrol engine is one most diesels are going to lose.

Anyway, a diesel would have hardly sold, certainly not to the point where it would have been re-engineering the car to get a V10 to fit. In emerging market like China and the Arab states diesel is almost exclusively seen as truck fuel and couldn't deal with the embarrassment of a diesel, not that fuel is expensive enough to care and in this country the last thing new Bentley buyers are thinking of are MPG, BIK and CO2 emissions. Finally, Bentleys don't get used much, and many of them are used exclusively in towns and cities - I doubt many customers would appreciate a DPF light coming on every 5 seconds .

[BIRMA]

I agree it would be pointless turning this into a diesel V petrol debate. I've never been a great diesel lover apart from the vans I run but I have to say the V10 twin turbo diesel in the Phaeton has changed my opinion.

[Blown2CV]

it wasn't intended to be a petrol vs diesel debate, all i meant was that a diesel is wrong for a Bentley, no matter how good that V10 is.

[0a]

dme123 said:

BIRMA said:

Perceptive fellow aren't you.

Perceptive enough to know that if I wanted 300bhp or so and 24MPG I have far better options than the world's most pointless diesel engine...

Don't get me wrong about the Phaeton, for £5k why wouldn't you have a massive car with a novel and interesting story (and engine), but the reason us lot like them is because they were spectacularly unsuccessful as they had almost no appeal whatsoever to all the normal people out there that actually buy cars like these new. I'd find it hard to justify the V10 diesel over a proper engine though, even for £5k. Maybe if it was actually any more efficient than a 300bhp petrol V8, but it's not and thus defeats the only point in having a diesel engine in a passenger car. Even the W12 only gets 4mpg less.

Edited by dme123 on Monday 5th January 18:02

Firstly it's good to see this thread up and active again!

Secondly, I agree with the above given the fuel economy of the V10. If it's anything like all the six cylinder diesels (even the very latest ones) where people say "they are smooth like a petrol" then no thanks - even the latest merc or BMW six cylinder diesels installed in the S or 7 are miles away from a petrol six in terms of refinement - at least you get reasonable MPG and low CO2 with the diesel six.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Atmospheric said:

I know, I know. I can't help looking. Twelve cylinders:



http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

Snakes Alive - 5.2 seconds to 60 for something weighing about the same as a small moon.

[Marty Funkhouser]

ATM said:

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

Lordy thats a lot of metal for the dough. How reliable are these V12's?

[ATM]

Marty Funkhouser said:

ATM said:

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

Lordy thats a lot of metal for the dough. How reliable are these V12's?

They have 445bhp and they used this engine in a rolls royce. What else do you need to know?

[hornetrider]

ATM said:

Marty Funkhouser said:

ATM said:

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

Lordy thats a lot of metal for the dough. How reliable are these V12's?

They have 445bhp and they used this engine in a rolls royce. What else do you need to know?

I need to know if it's been serviced. Information in the somewhat comprehensive ad which is sadly lacking. Ergo...

[BIRMA]

ATM said:

Marty Funkhouser said:

ATM said:

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

Lordy thats a lot of metal for the dough. How reliable are these V12's?

They have 445bhp and they used this engine in a rolls royce. What else do you need to know?

I think on the whole the big VAG engines are pretty good and I know some of the early issues with some engines were addressed with replacement parts fairly early on in their life. I read on one of the owners forums that this type of engine is only just run-in at 80K miles and in automatic form is hardly ever overstressed.
The big but is of course when anything does go wrong, repair work can be expensive even with a good independent.
Lets face it people buying these big high powered Luxo-Barges do so knowing that one you make the right choice in the first place because the chances are you'll have a job selling it.
Two you have done a microscopic analysis of ownership from the very helpful owner forums and you have made a carefully considered choice.
Three you try to have a decent fund put aside just in case, which again most people would have because in relative terms these cars are very cheap to buy.
Four you just enjoy having a fairly exclusive super luxury fast car at about a tenth of the original cost and if you are lucky got one with a £280 road tax rate, oh and fairly cheap insurance.

[ATM]

hornetrider said:

ATM said:

Marty Funkhouser said:

ATM said:

This top bks 760 v12 has been for sale for quite a while


http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=2...

Lordy thats a lot of metal for the dough. How reliable are these V12's?

They have 445bhp and they used this engine in a rolls royce. What else do you need to know?

I need to know if it's been serviced. Information in the somewhat comprehensive ad which is sadly lacking. Ergo...

I think this is a rare swb too.

[hornetrider]

BIRMA said:

I think on the whole the big VAG engines are pretty good and I know some of the early issues with some engines were addressed with replacement parts fairly early on in their life. I read on one of the owners forums that this type of engine is only just run-in at 80K miles and in automatic form is hardly ever overstressed.
The big but is of course when anything does go wrong, repair work can be expensive even with a good independent.
Lets face it people buying these big high powered Luxo-Barges do so knowing that one you make the right choice in the first place because the chances are you'll have a job selling it.
Two you have done a microscopic analysis of ownership from the very helpful owner forums and you have made a carefully considered choice.
Three you try to have a decent fund put aside just in case, which again most people would have because in relative terms these cars are very cheap to buy.
Four you just enjoy having a fairly exclusive super luxury fast car at about a tenth of the original cost and if you are lucky got one with a £280 road tax rate, oh and fairly cheap insurance.

It's not VAG.

[BIRMA]

hornetrider said:

BIRMA said:

I think on the whole the big VAG engines are pretty good and I know some of the early issues with some engines were addressed with replacement parts fairly early on in their life. I read on one of the owners forums that this type of engine is only just run-in at 80K miles and in automatic form is hardly ever overstressed.
The big but is of course when anything does go wrong, repair work can be expensive even with a good independent.
Lets face it people buying these big high powered Luxo-Barges do so knowing that one you make the right choice in the first place because the chances are you'll have a job selling it.
Two you have done a microscopic analysis of ownership from the very helpful owner forums and you have made a carefully considered choice.
Three you try to have a decent fund put aside just in case, which again most people would have because in relative terms these cars are very cheap to buy.
Four you just enjoy having a fairly exclusive super luxury fast car at about a tenth of the original cost and if you are lucky got one with a £280 road tax rate, oh and fairly cheap insurance.

It's not VAG.

Yes I have just realised that, my mistake I thought it was the Audi.

[slippery]

Blown2CV said:

it wasn't intended to be a petrol vs diesel debate, all i meant was that a diesel is wrong for a Bentley, no matter how good that V10 is.

I agree, but I bet it still happens one day.