RE: Production Focus RS Breaks Cover
Discussion
jag guru said:
A very plausible argument,I admit.However,Ford had already designed,costed,
engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
The WRC transmission are around £70k.....engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
So you've said in this thread you are an engineer, yet you seriously beleive a WRC transmission in a specially adapted shell would be a plausible production solution..??? Imagine turning up at your local ford stealer asking for a new set of dogs or a new carbon clutch. Seriously, that is a pretty rediculous statement.
I think he was just taking into account the basic shell design that would allow a 4WD system to be installed, but still the WRC transmission is gonna be miles away from anything useable in a road car and would still need an awful lot of work designing and implementing. I'm sure if it was a cost effective and realistic option Ford would have done it, but it might have added 10k to the price of each car so it wouldn't be feasible.
I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
Darkslider said:
I think he was just taking into account the basic shell design that would allow a 4WD system to be installed, but still the WRC transmission is gonna be miles away from anything useable in a road car and would still need an awful lot of work designing and implementing. I'm sure if it was a cost effective and realistic option Ford would have done it, but it might have added 10k to the price of each car so it wouldn't be feasible.
I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
I know its a Soft roader but what platform is the kuga based on? That has a 4wd system and to me doesn't seem a million miles away from the C-max.I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
chris_w666 said:
Darkslider said:
I think he was just taking into account the basic shell design that would allow a 4WD system to be installed, but still the WRC transmission is gonna be miles away from anything useable in a road car and would still need an awful lot of work designing and implementing. I'm sure if it was a cost effective and realistic option Ford would have done it, but it might have added 10k to the price of each car so it wouldn't be feasible.
I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
I know its a Soft roader but what platform is the kuga based on? That has a 4wd system and to me doesn't seem a million miles away from the C-max.I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
Mutton said:
chris_w666 said:
Darkslider said:
I think he was just taking into account the basic shell design that would allow a 4WD system to be installed, but still the WRC transmission is gonna be miles away from anything useable in a road car and would still need an awful lot of work designing and implementing. I'm sure if it was a cost effective and realistic option Ford would have done it, but it might have added 10k to the price of each car so it wouldn't be feasible.
I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
I know its a Soft roader but what platform is the kuga based on? That has a 4wd system and to me doesn't seem a million miles away from the C-max.I think it's a shame as I still associate the RS badge with exactly that, rallye sport and it still makes me think of 4WD cars. We won't see 4WD on this platform but hopefully whatever replaces the Focus will have the option. Just a shame that WRC cars no longer require hologation production models as that's taken an awful lot of brilliant machines that could have been off the road
bobthemonkey said:
The Haldex system fitted to the Kuga wouldn't be able to handle the torque of the RS and still keep within the safe reliability tolerances Ford would specify. They are soon to fit the ST version of the I-5 engine to the Kuga and that is taking the transmission to the upper ends of it safe reliable limit (I've heard the transmission overheats already).
Is the Focus chassis not already on sale with the Haldex and T5 engine as a Volvo C30/S40/V50?The new Focus is a bit OTT styling wise for me, but then my formative RS years were at the wheel of proper RS Fords, namely Mex's, Twink's, RS1600's etc and there weren't many Le Mans Green RS1600's ever made either
300hp in a sorted fwd chassis is ok, as long as you learn how to drive a fwd car with a Quiafe ATB diff, which Clarkson and most motoring journo's never did which is why the original Focus RS got such a s
gging....
I had a Quiafe ATB diff in my 300hp Saab Aero and it was great, and I know other Saab owners putting in excess of 450hp and 550Nm of torque through fwd and a Quaife ATB without massive drama...if you learn how to drive it.
The new Focus was never going to be awd on cost grounds.....and production line practicalities, so no point in wishing otherwise.
And others have mentioned, once WRC goes to back to two-wheel drive as it surely will, EVO and Scoobies will disappear too in time.
NightDriver said:
jag guru said:
A very plausible argument,I admit.However,Ford had already designed,costed,
engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
The WRC transmission are around £70k.....engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
So you've said in this thread you are an engineer, yet you seriously beleive a WRC transmission in a specially adapted shell would be a plausible production solution..??? Imagine turning up at your local ford stealer asking for a new set of dogs or a new carbon clutch. Seriously, that is a pretty rediculous statement.
fairly apparent.Or, the need to use WRC components throughout..A bodyshell is a bodyshell,no ? The manufacturing costs of one v the
other is circa £300 k of a difference ? I,d suggest the major costs
of the WRC shell were in the design and development stage.
It,s not made of titanium,or another exotic expensive material,is
it ?
Did the roadgoing production Escort Cosworth,run WRC hardware ?
Not to my recollection it didnt.But, it still made production.
But,in usual PH tradition people go for the jugular........
"turning up at a dealer asking for dogs or a new carbon clutch " ?
...............yes, that,s what I was thinking of.
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 05:08
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 06:05
bales said:
jag guru said:
However,Ford had already designed,costed,
engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
Right...so your telling me that Focus WRC car is closely related to the road car, you been to M-sport recently?engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
The difference between the two cars is erm...lets see about £300k!
jag guru said:
NightDriver said:
jag guru said:
A very plausible argument,I admit.However,Ford had already designed,costed,
engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
The WRC transmission are around £70k.....engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
So you've said in this thread you are an engineer, yet you seriously beleive a WRC transmission in a specially adapted shell would be a plausible production solution..??? Imagine turning up at your local ford stealer asking for a new set of dogs or a new carbon clutch. Seriously, that is a pretty rediculous statement.
fairly apparent.Or, the need to use WRC components throughout..A bodyshell is a bodyshell,no ? The manufacturing costs of one v the
other is circa £300 k of a difference ? I,d suggest the major costs
of the WRC shell were in the design and development stage.
It,s not made of titanium,or another exotic expensive material,is
it ?
Did the roadgoing production Escort Cosworth,run WRC hardware ?
Not to my recollection it didnt.But, it still made production.
But,in usual PH tradition people go for the jugular........
"turning up at a dealer asking for dogs or a new carbon clutch " ?
...............yes, that,s what I was thinking of.
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 05:08
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 06:05
But as I remember it, wasn't the Escort Cosworth basically a rebodied development of the Sierra Cosworth chassis, and it doesn't really bear much resemblence to a boggo Escort? (talking chassis here) Am I correct?
jag guru said:
No-one suggested a road going WRC clone,which I thought was
fairly apparent.Or, the need to use WRC components throughout..A bodyshell is a bodyshell,no ? The manufacturing costs of one v the
other is circa £300 k of a difference ? I,d suggest the major costs
of the WRC shell were in the design and development stage.
It,s not made of titanium,or another exotic expensive material,is
it ?
Well, most of the side panels and add-ons are composite, but you have to remember the WRC spec shell isn't a production developed shell....and is as far removed from a Focus production shell as a Boreham built Mk2 Escort shell was from a production Mk2 Escort shell.fairly apparent.Or, the need to use WRC components throughout..A bodyshell is a bodyshell,no ? The manufacturing costs of one v the
other is circa £300 k of a difference ? I,d suggest the major costs
of the WRC shell were in the design and development stage.
It,s not made of titanium,or another exotic expensive material,is
it ?
A M-Sport Focus WRC shell takes about £150k to build and requires about 1200 man hours to fabricate and modify from the base production shell supplied to M-Sport......
No one in Ford design or production has been anywhere near it.....
Edited by aeropilot on Tuesday 8th July 08:07
jag guru said:
NightDriver said:
jag guru said:
A very plausible argument,I admit.However,Ford had already designed,costed,
engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
The WRC transmission are around £70k.....engineered,and built an awd chassis for the Focus.....the WRC chassis.
So,no need to spend a year re-designing the fwd one,then If the will had
been there,this chassis could have been adapted for production ?
So,fwd for other reasons ?
So you've said in this thread you are an engineer, yet you seriously beleive a WRC transmission in a specially adapted shell would be a plausible production solution..??? Imagine turning up at your local ford stealer asking for a new set of dogs or a new carbon clutch. Seriously, that is a pretty rediculous statement.
fairly apparent.Or, the need to use WRC components throughout..A bodyshell is a bodyshell,no ? The manufacturing costs of one v the
other is circa £300 k of a difference ? I,d suggest the major costs
of the WRC shell were in the design and development stage.
It,s not made of titanium,or another exotic expensive material,is
it ?
Did the roadgoing production Escort Cosworth,run WRC hardware ?
Not to my recollection it didnt.But, it still made production.
But,in usual PH tradition people go for the jugular........
"turning up at a dealer asking for dogs or a new carbon clutch " ?
...............yes, that,s what I was thinking of.
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 05:08
Edited by jag guru on Tuesday 8th July 06:05
The major costs of the WRC shells is in the man hours required to carry out the extensive modification required to take the items such as the 4wd drivetrain but also obviously the safety components (rollcage etc). Having a production run of even 1000 car having to have the shells go through 'hands on modification' would send the prices and timescale of a programme through the roof.
focus man said:
see and hear bout the rs....
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
I agree with Capito on the 4wd Vs Fwd topic.This car doesnt need 4wd.http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
People forget that a standard 230bhp Escort cossie had too much traction to make it really interesting out of the show room,even a 1.6 focus would be a more involving drive.The cossie needed over 350bhp to make it dance a bit.
4wd is cack imo,more weight,more drag,more fuel.More problems..Unless its raining.
focus man said:
see and hear bout the rs....
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
Love the way he hits the paintwork twice with his ring at the end. This guy obviously cares about cars http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
CarbonM5 said:
focus man said:
see and hear bout the rs....
http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
I agree with Capito on the 4wd Vs Fwd topic.This car doesnt need 4wd.http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.a... V
this might tell you lot what you want to know!!!
People forget that a standard 230bhp Escort cossie had too much traction to make it really interesting out of the show room,even a 1.6 focus would be a more involving drive.The cossie needed over 350bhp to make it dance a bit.
4wd is cack imo,more weight,more drag,more fuel.More problems..Unless its raining.
andybg40 said:
I don't get all the gripes with torque steer. I have driven high powered FWD cars for years and have never had an issue with it. It was Clarkson being a tt started all the crap with the old RS, because he couldn't accelerate in a straight line with his hands off the wheel. My view is, if you let go of the wheel while accelerating then you deserve to be pulled off the road and have an accident. I'm sure most of you here tighten your grip on the wheel if you decide to drive in a more spirited fashion, it's a subconscious reaction. So, if you're holding the wheel properly in the first place, then you shouldn't end up in a ditch.
lol ome on mate you obviously have never had your hands on a decent car or do any track day driving ,and another thing if our jc is such a d*ck then why dont lambo or mitsi use fwd ???? because ur wrong and their not t started all the crap with the old RS, because he couldn't accelerate in a straight line with his hands off the wheel. My view is, if you let go of the wheel while accelerating then you deserve to be pulled off the road and have an accident. I'm sure most of you here tighten your grip on the wheel if you decide to drive in a more spirited fashion, it's a subconscious reaction. So, if you're holding the wheel properly in the first place, then you shouldn't end up in a ditch.evos are all under 5 secs 0-60 show me a focus that can do that ,thats no cossied
MJO said:
Chadwiko said:
sorry for adding such a boring addition to the debate, but does anyone know if this will be available as a 5 door..? dont laugh... Im a family man with a need for speed... I have the ST, but like an earlier comment am not blown away with the perf, but like everything else about it... the RS may give me what I want, but need the 5 doors.
get yourself a evoFive doors? What a prize loser!
Alright Bro?
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