RE: Touring Car Battle: E30 Vs E90

[AlexC1981]

MrKipling43 said:

I'm sorry, but that article is total rubbish. Great idea, appallingly executed.

Some of the writing on this website is shocking (errors notwithstanding) and I usually keep my mouth shut, but this is one of the worst examples. It reads like something a GCSE English student would get a poor mark for: it's clumsily written, poorly structured and the language desperately basic. If I was this journo's editor it would have been redone.

2/10

Perhaps you would like PH to charge an online subscription fee, so that they may employ a better standard of journalist?

[vrooom]

I am surpised, 320hp e30 m3 isnt any more powerful than 280hp E90. I am wondering in what way the power is deilvered.

[bionic barf]

hi i'm new on here and just wanted to say that the soper m3 is just a awsome thing to be around. i know the owner quite well through the bmw car club and i was lucky enough to be driven round croft last october by him. i own a e30 m3 which is nice...but that thing (the race car)is on another planet. it was a shame on the day that there was a slight running problem which caused a misfire high up in the revs but hell, once its throat cleared, it went like stink!
hopefully, i may be seeing the owner on monday at croft (bmw car club track day) where "das soper miester" as i refer to it may be present

i feel real lucky to be assosiated with a brand such as bmw where icons such as e30 m3's are part of the company's heritage.

barf.

[BeefMaster9000]

vrooom said:

I am surpised, 320hp e30 m3 isnt any more powerful than 280hp E90.

Clearly it is more powerful... approx 40hp more powerful! The article suggests the differences in lap times were due brake performace and steering.

It also sounds like they were using different rubber - as tyre performance is the single biggest contributor to a lap time, that doesn't really make it a fair comparison. Also would have been interesting to have got Steve Soper along to do a comparison from the opposite side of the fence!

Also agree with some of the other comments - a little more technical info and some actual lap time data would have been interesting.. not really made the most of what was a rare opportunity.

Edited by BeefMaster9000 on Saturday 12th July 15:45

[bionic barf]

BeefMaster9000 said:

vrooom said:

Also would have been interesting to have got Steve Soper along to do a comparison from the opposite side of the fence!

Edited by BeefMaster9000 on Saturday 12th July 15:45

steve was asked to drive the car a few years back but he refused....later someone said that maybe it was a good thing he did'nt drive it as he would probably have driven it to within an inch of death! these things are not cheap to repair. how far do you think £10000 willget you for a engine rebuild.
as for tyres, remember, andy had the luxury of using modern rubber, which the car was designed to run on where as the m3 was running old dunlops the last time i saw it. the brakes and suspension on the e90 are so advanced compared to 17 year old stuff.
its a bit like comparing a 450 bhp ford rs200 against a 300 bhp focus wrc...there will only ever be one winner on the stage but the winner for looks and desirability....

[dgboxer123]

Titan Simba said:

RosCabezas said:

BountyHunter said:

patmahe said:

Fascinating to see these two cars comared like this - more stories along the same lines please

+1

one of the best PH articles ever.
just a shame its not longer.

+2. Loved it

And me.

One of the few articles I've read word-for-word all the way through.
Old vs. New RS next please!

Ditto!

More like this please - but, if possible, longer with more technical depth and detailed, accurate feedback on the handling etc. Maybe written by the driver then?

But did really enjoy it nonetheless.

[Tahiti]

What a great idea! Keep them coming.

[sim16v]

Great little article, but its hardly a fair comparison.

The E30 M3 looks like an '89 spec EVOII, a late Sport EVO on modern rubber would give a whole different result.

Also, the E30 will be just about irreplaceable now, so maybe it wasn't quite driven flat out?

[bionic barf]

sim16v said:

The E30 M3 looks like an '89 spec EVOII, a late Sport EVO on modern rubber would give a whole different result.

i think that the motor is a 2.5 ltr s14 and running in endurance spec so it is'nt as powerful as it could be. saying that, i know it is'nt a late model spec motor as it does'nt have slide throttles.
as for the original model year, well, i'm not too sure if it was origially built as a evo 3/sport evo , possibly a 2.3 evo 2

the car was originally built/prepared by zakspeed and as with most race cars, it probably does'nt have matching numbers. i know that when the car was purchased by the current owner (i will keep his name private,but i will say that he is a leading light within the "M" power section of the bmw car club)it did'nt look anything like it does now sporting a different colour scheme and those lovely BBS wheels where asbsent

[ApexJimi]

Personally, I really enjoyed the article

Would have been nice to get a slightly more in-depth analysis of why the E30 was slower, but that's just the in me!

MrKipling, I trust your writing ability is of a better standard than your ability to give constructive and reasoned critique.

[RLK500]

Not sure about the "Wouldn't even get on the back of a current grid" comment. At Brands current WTCC cars lap in about the 49's, Will Hoy in 1991, did high 48's (in an e30), all be it on a slightly quicker circuit prior to the changes to Graham Hill Bend.

[williamp]

Brilliant article. How about Prioux in an M1?
Or RS500's???

This is he sort of stuff I want to read on Pheads.

[chippy17]

minimatt1967 said:

Great cars, good Article Amazing driver! I like the E90 320is, but in my books for charachter at least, it can't hold a light to the E30 M3!

Andy Priaulx one of britains most talented driver yet, as somebody said, 95% of the UK population have never heard of him! Sad really...

I believe he has just been given an MBE, well deseved IMO

[chippy17]

bionic barf said:

sim16v said:

The E30 M3 looks like an '89 spec EVOII, a late Sport EVO on modern rubber would give a whole different result.

i think that the motor is a 2.5 ltr s14 and running in endurance spec so it is'nt as powerful as it could be. saying that, i know it is'nt a late model spec motor as it does'nt have slide throttles.
as for the original model year, well, i'm not too sure if it was origially built as a evo 3/sport evo , possibly a 2.3 evo 2

the car was originally built/prepared by zakspeed and as with most race cars, it probably does'nt have matching numbers. i know that when the car was purchased by the current owner (i will keep his name private,but i will say that he is a leading light within the "M" power section of the bmw car club)it did'nt look anything like it does now sporting a different colour scheme and those lovely BBS wheels where asbsent

I would say it is an 89 car based on an Evo 2 not the last of the line Sport Evos which ran approx 370bhp, but it would have the six speed box

[MarkM3Evoplus]

RLK500 is correct. Certainly around some power circuits, an E30 M3 Sport Evo in sprint guise would have murdered a modern touring car.

I was surprised to see a Kumho E30 M3 driven by Gary Whittaker on Kuhmo Hard compound R tyres tunring in 1.23's compared to high 1.19's for a BTCC car on slicks round Thruxton.

Note that the M3 has around 310 bhp while a full on DTM M3 of 91/92 had over 360bhp.

Nice to see articles like this, but if you know a little bit about the E30 M3 and the lap times it did, than the article is wide of the mark for accuracy.

Great to have Priaux featured tho!

[OllieC]

RLK500 said:

Not sure about the "Wouldn't even get on the back of a current grid" comment. At Brands current WTCC cars lap in about the 49's, Will Hoy in 1991, did high 48's (in an e30), all be it on a slightly quicker circuit prior to the changes to Graham Hill Bend.

the btcc m3's wouldnt have made 300hp back in 1991, they were only 2 litre cars anyway

[Oli S]

MarkM3Evoplus said:

RLK500 is correct. Certainly around some power circuits, an E30 M3 Sport Evo in sprint guise would have murdered a modern touring car.

I was surprised to see a Kumho E30 M3 driven by Gary Whittaker on Kuhmo Hard compound R tyres tunring in 1.23's compared to high 1.19's for a BTCC car on slicks round Thruxton.

Note that the M3 has around 310 bhp while a full on DTM M3 of 91/92 had over 360bhp.

Nice to see articles like this, but if you know a little bit about the E30 M3 and the lap times it did, than the article is wide of the mark for accuracy.

Great to have Priaux featured tho!

Hi, I simply reported what Andy had told me on the day with regards to which car would be quicker.

[Gruppe1875]

More of the same style of article please

[chippy17]

Oli S said:

MarkM3Evoplus said:

RLK500 is correct. Certainly around some power circuits, an E30 M3 Sport Evo in sprint guise would have murdered a modern touring car.

I was surprised to see a Kumho E30 M3 driven by Gary Whittaker on Kuhmo Hard compound R tyres tunring in 1.23's compared to high 1.19's for a BTCC car on slicks round Thruxton.

Note that the M3 has around 310 bhp while a full on DTM M3 of 91/92 had over 360bhp.

Nice to see articles like this, but if you know a little bit about the E30 M3 and the lap times it did, than the article is wide of the mark for accuracy.

Great to have Priaux featured tho!

Hi, I simply reported what Andy had told me on the day with regards to which car would be quicker.

I think Mr Priaux might know what he is talking about...

[Crook]

bionic barf said:

sim16v said:

The E30 M3 looks like an '89 spec EVOII, a late Sport EVO on modern rubber would give a whole different result.

i think that the motor is a 2.5 ltr s14 and running in endurance spec so it is'nt as powerful as it could be. saying that, i know it is'nt a late model spec motor as it does'nt have slide throttles.
as for the original model year, well, i'm not too sure if it was origially built as a evo 3/sport evo , possibly a 2.3 evo 2

the car was originally built/prepared by zakspeed and as with most race cars, it probably does'nt have matching numbers. i know that when the car was purchased by the current owner (i will keep his name private,but i will say that he is a leading light within the "M" power section of the bmw car club)it did'nt look anything like it does now sporting a different colour scheme and those lovely BBS wheels where asbsent

Is that the same car owner/car as was giving rides at Silverstone when Sabine was there in the M5?
If so, I've been in it too!