RE: Boxstera GT

[kambites]

I think the Elise is so blatantly flawed in so many ways, we'd never get anything done if we took offense at people pointing them out.

[bad_roo]

HE SAID JEHOVAH!!!

[RobM77]

bad_roo said:

Here's a quick movie file of me driving a 350Z. Would I be able to do this if, as you have suggested in the past, the throttle response is so bad that it makes the car so utterly unresponsive?

Just for the record, if anyone's thinking of buying a Zed and is reaing this, I never said that. I said that the throttle response was unusual. It represents a step function, so when you come onto the throttle gently there's a slight time delay, and then it steps up. Most DBW cars ramp up gently after a small delay. None of that represents "unresponsive" or "so bad" or anything of the sort. It's merely unusual.

[bad_roo]

Apologies if I misrepresented that. I find the throttle fine.

[RobM77]

bad_roo said:

Apologies if I misrepresented that. I find the throttle fine.

That's ok. Sorry if I over-reacted, but camel/straw/back etc. Just check out the hammering I've had lately from certain people on here about the Cayman, a car that I love, but which I dared to criticise. And Kambites, who dared to criticise the Boxster, even though he actually liked it enough to test drive one before he bought his Elise! I still can't work out quite what a few tenetative engineering comments have got to do with his opinion on steering feel; probably just an excuse to have a go at him. Or check out this poor person:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

PLenty of my friends and colleagues have 350Zs, and they love them too. The car handles beautifully, is comfortable for long distances and has a wonderful engine. Those were three of my conclusions after my test drive, and I'm surprised there aren't more around to be honest. Personally though, I felt it lacked steering feel and a natural throttle response. Everyone's hands and feet are different I guess, but it just didn't suit me really. I place a huge (more than average I guess) importance on driving a car as an extension of myself and the interface between driver and car.

[zebedee]

Pesty said:

zebedee said:

errrm, you've missed the point completely. No-one is having a dig at the Boxter in the article. They are having a dig at the bloke who ruined it, leaving the impression (literally) that it has had something large and angular dropped on the back of it. The owner wasn't happy with his choice of car, so chose to ruin it, what's not to laugh at about that?

... feel free to laugh at his choices. I for one won't but you go ahead, its his money his life fk all to do with me what he does

Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 30th July 23:01

I will laugh, it is his life, and just like comedians choose to spend their lives making us laugh, he has basically created a comedy car. I also laugh whenever I see anyone in a Cayenne, because the only reason they could have bought one is because they want people to laugh at them, why else would you buy and/or be seen in such a comedy car?

[Pesty]

Don't know perhaps because they like them? and its their money so they can buy what they want.

some people will look at other makes and models and not write them off out of hand like you seem to be doing. I notice all the people critisising Porsche on this thread drive lotus elise why is that?

I own a porsche But I also love Lotus I have never driven one but would love a go. I would have a go in a Cayene aswel beofre I wrote it off but thats just me I just like cars all cars some more than others of course but badge means nothing to me.

So you stick to tyour car predudices. and keep telling yourself its not inverted snobery

while you are at it you might as well say all vauxhalls are rubish and all BMW's are driven by tts

Pistonheads Cliche and intollerance matters

[RobM77]

Pesty said:

some people will look at other makes and models and not write them off out of hand like you seem to be doing. I notice all the people critisising Porsche on this thread drive lotus elise why is that?

I don't think Kambites and I criticised Porsche as a marque, that would be a very sweeping statement. We just mentioned a lack of steering feel on the latest models. I for one adore Porsches - I'm sat next to a print of a 917 at the 1000km, and have stacks of Porsche magazines, a few books, DVDs etc. Certain people on this thread (they know who they are..) love to polarise arguments and make people sound bad, just so they can exercise their childish playground bullying tactics; but I just had an innocent comment about throttle response and steering feel on a Cayman that I drove, that was all. In addition, I certainly haven't "written off" Porsches. I'm saving up for a Cayman S as my next car!!

In answer to your question though, one of the reasons Kambites and I drive Elises is that they've got loads of steering feel, so I guess that's the reason why we've pointed this out as a deficiency in the latest Porsches; we're very keen on steering feel.

All I would ask for is the right to say what I like about certain cars and what I don't like about others, without being bullied and insulted because of it.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 1st August 17:13

[bad_roo]

It's also key to retain a sense of perspective. Whenever I drive an Elsie, within fifty yards it strikes me that this is what steering is meant to feel like. It is excellent in that respect. Better than a Cayman? Certainly. That said, the Cayman has extremely good steering feel. Not in the same league as an Elise, but it would be a revelation if coming from, say, an E34 M5. All things are relative and your Elise yradstick is just at the far end of the continuum.

[RobM77]

bad_roo said:

It's also key to retain a sense of perspective. Whenever I drive an Elsie, within fifty yards it strikes me that this is what steering is meant to feel like. It is excellent in that respect. Better than a Cayman? Certainly. That said, the Cayman has extremely good steering feel. Not in the same league as an Elise, but it would be a revelation if coming from, say, an E34 M5. All things are relative and your Elise yradstick is just at the far end of the continuum.

I think I definitely need to drive another Cayman. As I said earlier, in the past I've driven two Elises with no steering feel at all. Come to think of it, my Caterham had very little steering feel when I bought it either, but now it's got lovely steering. This was all down to geometry and tyre pressues. If either or both were off on that demonstrator that I drove, then that could well be the answer. All I can say without a shadow of a doubt was that the Cayman that I drove had very little steering feel at all - sure it was less than my Caterham or Elise, but it was also less than my BMW 328i, that's for sure.

I still think people on here should have the right to comment on cars, both positive and negative; without being sworn at or insulted because of it. That's not you roo - just certain people on here, especially of late. Thinking of that sort of thing, I'm glad to see that Jessica's thread about the closed off road has now been shut down.

[bad_roo]

Didn't see that thread.

I quite like the feel of the Cyaman's steering. It's vibey but not too chatty and the combination of pedal feel and steering feedback under braking is brilliant.

I know what you mean about stamping on people's opinions though. I made such a point in that Dream Garage thread. How can you tell somebody what their dream garage should be? That their subjective and rather arbitrary choice is wrong? Yet many do.

[Pesty]

RobM77 said:

I still think people on here should have the right to comment on cars, both positive and negative; .

I agree with this obviously but...

Thats not the reason I joined this thread its the line about not being able to afford a 911 and the like. You don't get people saying couldnt you afford a sport 350 do you? or your obviously poor so you had to buy an elise not an exige etc etc
Its tired and lasy journalism and this site should be ashamed of itself for perpetuating it.

Also its gets very very tiresome and boring when the same people chip in all the time with the same critisisms.

I know not much out there will have the same steering feel as an Elise honestly I do I don't need to be remided of it unfortunately I am not a millionaire so cannot have a stable of every model and make to take advantage of their relative merits.

Some people obviously state they like sterring feel and thats why they wont buy "whatever" And yes thats absolutely fine carry on..


but you know fine well that some are just fan boys who like to sg off whatever it is they don't drive they have the best car in the world and every one elses is ste blah blah why are we even talking about elises instead of some guys modified porsche?

its not just lotus owners who do this plenty of porsche and ferrari owners do the same its just really sad. don't get me started about the GTR threads that pop up every day boring

Ive got an Ipod everything else is st is exactly the same thing ps I was not adressing kambites or anyone else other that th eposter I responded to RE his coments on the cayenne

Edited by Pesty on Friday 1st August 17:42

[kambites]

I would agree that the "poor man's Porsche thing" is damned annoying. Especially given that, in many ways, the Boxster/Cayman is a better car than the 911. I do think that people take other people's opinions far too seriously though. Who really cares what other people think of what you drive? Surely you buy a car for yourself not for other people?

I don't think anyone would be so daft as to claim an Elise is "the best car in the world". It does a few things better than other cars, but it does a lot of things badly too.

Edited by kambites on Friday 1st August 17:46

[RobM77]

bad_roo said:

Didn't see that thread.

A user called Jessica posted to say she went down a road closed for roadworks, but open for access, to look at a house that she wanted to buy. She got a whole load of abuse from a roadworker once she'd stopped the car in the road. What then ensued was 15 pages of insults and abuse directed at Jessica for going down a closed road, and directed crossways to the posters with different points of view. I don't know what's happening to Pistonheads lately, but aggressive keyboard warriors seem to be in a majority nowadays. For example, this one person in particular has jumped onto two or three threads recently and spoken to me in quite an insulting way, completely unprovoked, just because I made a slight criticism of a particular car. I've checked his profile and he appears to be a grown man, not some argumentative schoolboy. Utterly ridiculous. Look at the stick Kambites got on this thread as well; completely uncalled for.

[Pesty]

kambites said:

I would agree that the "poor man's Porsche thing" is damned annoying. Especially given that, in many ways, the Boxster/Cayman is a better car than the 911. I do think that people take other people's opinions far too seriously though. Who really cares what other people think of what you drive? Surely you buy a car for yourself not for other people?

Edited by kambites on Friday 1st August 17:41

I agree

I don't care what people drive or what people say about what I drive. Even the bad modified car at the start its his choice or cayenne drivers.
I have got stick for my car "oh its the c4" they are st compared to a C2 thanks i still like it its usualy by people who have driven niether of them

I had a guy come up to me the other week at Vmax I was in the car and he walked over just to tell me he didn like the wheels Thanks Buddy

[kambites]

Pesty said:

I had a guy come up to me the other week at Vmax I was in the car and he walked over just to tell me he didn like the wheels

What kind of person does that?

[Pesty]

He was a Porsche owner I think

He did say it was a pretty car afterwoods but his first words were "I don't like the wheels"

I thought it was funny I understand as he was probably a traditionalist and would prefer the standard alloys but the mrs wanted to batter him

I just think he could have introduced himself a little better

[RobM77]

kambites said:

I would agree that the "poor man's Porsche thing" is damned annoying. Especially given that, in many ways, the Boxster/Cayman is a better car than the 911. I do think that people take other people's opinions far too seriously though. Who really cares what other people think of what you drive? Surely you buy a car for yourself not for other people?

It is annoying, and perplexing. Anyone with £30k has a choice of a secondhand Boxster or a 911! The way residuals are going these days, £30k will buy you a 5 or 6 year old 911, or a one or two year old Boxster.

[Windymiller]

Well it seems that sometimes a fair bit of effort does go into these replicas...

http://355madman.piczo.com/360build?cr=7&linkv...

[jamesgrrr]

any thread on PH that gets past say 200 threads should have an auto lock as 99.9% of the time (apart from Flemke: Is this your Mclaren? thread) it has devolved into very amusing but in the end useless arguing