RE: PH Heroes: BMW 2002 Turbo
Discussion
When i was about 12 next door neighbour had one of these,and at an impresionable age it really had a big affect on me..... used to gawp at the car constantly,and mouth turbo over and over....... unfortunatly its driving charataristics came home to roost one evening and he went through a hedge into a field and was hidden from view for two days before they found him......
jamesgrrr said:
Look at the front - much more thoughtful. The whole car (BMW) has a slight curve in the door, whereas the other white car thing (Lada?) has just a crease, which is only that shape because it's much quicker to use a hydraulic press to create that crease than it is to create a curve.
But there are smaller details that make the car look so special. Compare the side repeaters on the wings, the chrome surround on the headlamps etc etc.
Magners P.H said:
jamesgrrr said:
Look at the front - much more thoughtful. The whole car (BMW) has a slight curve in the door, whereas the other white car thing (Lada?) has just a crease, which is only that shape because it's much quicker to use a hydraulic press to create that crease than it is to create a curve.
But there are smaller details that make the car look so special. Compare the side repeaters on the wings, the chrome surround on the headlamps etc etc.
Edited by morgrp on Thursday 31st July 12:35
The BMW 2002 series was an incredible car.
BMW was about solid non-nonsense good engineering fundamentals back then in terms of engineering with no technology for technologies sake- a far cry to what they are today.
They continued this theme with the E21 323i that followed.
Compare this (or at least the 2002 tii)with a contemporary Ford Capri or MGB, this thing would seat four had luggage space, had independent rear suspension, was fuel injected, would out corner both and had better fuel economy. In terms of specific outpit- the 130 Bhp 2 litre only needed a two valve cylinder head compared to the solid axled Dolomite Sprints 4 valve head which made 127 Bhp.
The cylinder head design of the 2002 was a Hemi to start with but its 3 lobe-offset valve design (Drei-kugel-wirbel-brenn-raum) put other hemis to shame (even the Dodge Hemi , Alfa Romeo twin cam or Jaguar XK design). It flowed very well but also made alot of motion- the usual Hemi achilles heal. BMW even experimented with a twin cam version of this unit in the sixties but decided there wasnt enough benefit to justify it.
The fuel tank is located near the rear seats rather than over hanging the rear axle- like many RWD cars of the same time.
It's interesting to note that even a 2002 tii was a more expensive car in its day than a Jaguar E type.
When I rememeber that my daily driver Dodge Challenger is of the same era, and I assess the terrible drum brakes all round, the poor suspension location of this car and the backward carburation- it puts me all the more in awe of the BMW 2002 of the same era.
Its interesting to note that a Jaguar E type or a good Dodge Challenger R/T and probably even a Ford capri of the same era would definately fecth more money now than a 2002tii and the first two still more than a 2002 Turbo. Just goes to show that values of classics are more to do with emotion and how they characterised/fitted the feeling of their era than function and engineering excellence.
BMW was about solid non-nonsense good engineering fundamentals back then in terms of engineering with no technology for technologies sake- a far cry to what they are today.
They continued this theme with the E21 323i that followed.
Compare this (or at least the 2002 tii)with a contemporary Ford Capri or MGB, this thing would seat four had luggage space, had independent rear suspension, was fuel injected, would out corner both and had better fuel economy. In terms of specific outpit- the 130 Bhp 2 litre only needed a two valve cylinder head compared to the solid axled Dolomite Sprints 4 valve head which made 127 Bhp.
The cylinder head design of the 2002 was a Hemi to start with but its 3 lobe-offset valve design (Drei-kugel-wirbel-brenn-raum) put other hemis to shame (even the Dodge Hemi , Alfa Romeo twin cam or Jaguar XK design). It flowed very well but also made alot of motion- the usual Hemi achilles heal. BMW even experimented with a twin cam version of this unit in the sixties but decided there wasnt enough benefit to justify it.
The fuel tank is located near the rear seats rather than over hanging the rear axle- like many RWD cars of the same time.
It's interesting to note that even a 2002 tii was a more expensive car in its day than a Jaguar E type.
When I rememeber that my daily driver Dodge Challenger is of the same era, and I assess the terrible drum brakes all round, the poor suspension location of this car and the backward carburation- it puts me all the more in awe of the BMW 2002 of the same era.
Its interesting to note that a Jaguar E type or a good Dodge Challenger R/T and probably even a Ford capri of the same era would definately fecth more money now than a 2002tii and the first two still more than a 2002 Turbo. Just goes to show that values of classics are more to do with emotion and how they characterised/fitted the feeling of their era than function and engineering excellence.
I used to have an '02 in Inka Orange. (Yes, the bright orange colour) I loved that car and it turned many heads, probably due to the colour, but never have I had so many people ask if I'd sell my car... I wonder where it is now?
Check this out. A 2002 'tweaked' with an M54 3 litre dual VANOS motor from a 2002 X5 and 2 turbos!
http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/cotm/cotm_may_08.html
Check this out. A 2002 'tweaked' with an M54 3 litre dual VANOS motor from a 2002 X5 and 2 turbos!
http://www.bmw2002.co.uk/cotm/cotm_may_08.html
Yep, whatever happened to the days of cool and interesting beemers? Now they are just overhyped, overpumped repmobiles, far worse than anything they chucked out in the 90s when EVERYONE hated you if you drove one.. Still at least their new cars aren't as de rigeur for estate agents, field salespeople and stockbrokers as Audi are these days.
Edited by M@1975 on Friday 1st August 11:18
morgrp said:
I was offered a fairly decent 2002 Turbo in silver for a pretty amazing 10 grand about 5 years ago, only had 7 grand for a motor at the time - should have sawn my leg off to get the money! I hate modern Beemers - A lot of people buy them for all the wrong reasons and although they give impressive performance, I don't think they engineer them quite the same as the old ones - give me a 1602/2002, CSL or E30 M3 over ANY of the new ones
In 1981 £4k would buy you a very good condition 2002 Turbo or a 3.0 CSL. I bought the CSL, a 3.2 Alpina version. Evntually sold it 17 years later for more than 10 times what I paid for it. AND, I wish I had not sold it!!!!I still own an E30 M3 Evo Sport and think it the perfect marriage of the new technology & methods with the old charisma & beauty.
Also agree that the 2002 was great simple engineering - the only thing that always required tweaking was the Kugelfishcer fuel injection on my 2002 tii Touring.
morgrp said:
I was offered a fairly decent 2002 Turbo in silver for a pretty amazing 10 grand about 5 years ago, only had 7 grand for a motor at the time - should have sawn my leg off to get the money! I hate modern Beemers - A lot of people buy them for all the wrong reasons and although they give impressive performance, I don't think they engineer them quite the same as the old ones - give me a 1602/2002, CSL or E30 M3 over ANY of the new ones
Agreed mate - these old skool cars look the tits, and are "raw" machines, compared to the new ones with all the electronic gadgetry!Lovely machine, definitely in my "dream garage", along with an E30 M3 Cecotto!
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