RE: Porsche 911 Turbo
Discussion
carsnapper said:
I got to drive that actual 911 (911HUL press car) back from Germany a couple of months ago after finishing the JC 'Thriller' DVD...apart from being rather brisk Flippin' Quick (!) both in a straight line (looovely autobann VMax) and round the twisties, I have to say that it was one of the dullest, event-less, effort-less drives that I've done of late!
It's just, well, so boring. Even at 160+ it feels planted and reassuring. It truly is an amazing bit of engineering, and a very quick, competent car, but a 'supercar' it ain't. No Porsche (save the GT, perhaps), gets into this class in my book
And it sounds about as exciting as it drives...not very!
Put the engine where it *should* be, take the turbo's off, RWD only, add a couple of cylinders and a couple of litres...then maybe...!
(i'll take cover from the torrent of abuse from Porky fans...
Hi Rod, could you email me would some pic's of 911HUL for my screen saver, the reason is I bought this car from Porsche UK, Have owned it for a year now and put over 12K on the clock. Boring is not a word that springs to mind must admit. Used as a daily drive by the way, how many (Supercars can you do that with)It's just, well, so boring. Even at 160+ it feels planted and reassuring. It truly is an amazing bit of engineering, and a very quick, competent car, but a 'supercar' it ain't. No Porsche (save the GT, perhaps), gets into this class in my book
And it sounds about as exciting as it drives...not very! Put the engine where it *should* be, take the turbo's off, RWD only, add a couple of cylinders and a couple of litres...then maybe...!
(i'll take cover from the torrent of abuse from Porky fans...
ps: maybe I am still alive because its so boring
hole lights
It's the benchmark, has been for 30 + years. The proven performance and all weather ground covering ability is second to none. And its the one car that all other rivals are rated against. If other supercars are compared to the 911 Turbo , what does that make the 911T?
For a lot of people though 'supercar' means Italian, garish, ostentatious cars that are too big, too impractical and quite often unreliable. The 911T fits none of these, but if we are to judge a supercar on it's overall ability and performance then the Porsche is pretty much second to none.
For a lot of people though 'supercar' means Italian, garish, ostentatious cars that are too big, too impractical and quite often unreliable. The 911T fits none of these, but if we are to judge a supercar on it's overall ability and performance then the Porsche is pretty much second to none.
"...if we are to judge a supercar on it's overall ability and performance then the Porsche is pretty much second to none."
That's where all Porsche's fail so spectacularly, Supercars are *not* only judged on their overall ability and performance. If they were, then i'd agree with you whole-heartedly...the most recent incarnation of the 911 would be one of the cars to set the benchmark for performance. But if that was the judging criteria alone, i'd save myself £60K and go buy an Evo FQ 400.
It is (they are) an amazingly quick, reliable, communicative, competent and on occasions, rewarding car to drive (GT3 being my personal favourite), and I'd be a fool to ignore it's abilities. I understand why people buy them. I love the direct steering feel, the great visibility, chassis feedback and marvel at the 50 years of genius, Germanic development that brought it all to be. It will always be up there setting the all important benchmark times at tracks all over the world. After that long developing one car design, I'd expect nothing less.
I'm no Porsche basher and would gladly drive one on a day-to-day basis, but if it was my £100K - it would be near the bottom of the list just because I like a car with more than just technical excellence and heritage...I'd like a supercar with a personality, some character, some exploitable imperfections and one that drew a smile as it passed you by. Soul. That unquantifiable character that most all Porsche's, to date, have lacked.
It can be argued that most all British sports car and supercars have had buckets of soul and that 'unquantifiable character'...it's just they have always lacked all the positive points of the better built German cars! I think each car reflects it's nations underlying identity, Porsche for Germany, TVR or AM for the British?! Now if we could only get our heads together more often.
As for a super car for track days, then there's not many sharper tools out there than the 911. Brilliant. You can even drive to and from the track. As for it ever being a true 'Supercar' though, I doubt i'll ever be convinced, although I'll always be happy to try the next version.
In the mean time I shall be saving the pennies to get my Dream 'Super Car' - An AM DB4 GT Zagato - only another £495,000 left 'till it's mine!
That's where all Porsche's fail so spectacularly, Supercars are *not* only judged on their overall ability and performance. If they were, then i'd agree with you whole-heartedly...the most recent incarnation of the 911 would be one of the cars to set the benchmark for performance. But if that was the judging criteria alone, i'd save myself £60K and go buy an Evo FQ 400.
It is (they are) an amazingly quick, reliable, communicative, competent and on occasions, rewarding car to drive (GT3 being my personal favourite), and I'd be a fool to ignore it's abilities. I understand why people buy them. I love the direct steering feel, the great visibility, chassis feedback and marvel at the 50 years of genius, Germanic development that brought it all to be. It will always be up there setting the all important benchmark times at tracks all over the world. After that long developing one car design, I'd expect nothing less.
I'm no Porsche basher and would gladly drive one on a day-to-day basis, but if it was my £100K - it would be near the bottom of the list just because I like a car with more than just technical excellence and heritage...I'd like a supercar with a personality, some character, some exploitable imperfections and one that drew a smile as it passed you by. Soul. That unquantifiable character that most all Porsche's, to date, have lacked.
It can be argued that most all British sports car and supercars have had buckets of soul and that 'unquantifiable character'...it's just they have always lacked all the positive points of the better built German cars! I think each car reflects it's nations underlying identity, Porsche for Germany, TVR or AM for the British?! Now if we could only get our heads together more often.
As for a super car for track days, then there's not many sharper tools out there than the 911. Brilliant. You can even drive to and from the track. As for it ever being a true 'Supercar' though, I doubt i'll ever be convinced, although I'll always be happy to try the next version.
In the mean time I shall be saving the pennies to get my Dream 'Super Car' - An AM DB4 GT Zagato - only another £495,000 left 'till it's mine!
marlinmunro said:
Hi Rod, could you email me would some pic's of 911HUL for my screen saver, the reason is I bought this car from Porsche UK, Have owned it for a year now and put over 12K on the clock. Boring is not a word that springs to mind must admit. Used as a daily drive by the way, how many (Supercars can you do that with)
ps: maybe I am still alive because its so boring
Hi there marlinmunro,ps: maybe I am still alive because its so boring
My snaps are embargoed until 31 Dec this year for copyright reasons, however I'm sure that I could send you one for your personal use, although I must insist that it doesn't go beyond your screen saver please!
Email me your screen resolution and your email address and i'll forward you on a copy.
The 911 almost guarantees anonymity and reliability...perfect for the everyday commute!
Rod
carsnapper said:
marlinmunro said:
Hi Rod, could you email me would some pic's of 911HUL for my screen saver, the reason is I bought this car from Porsche UK, Have owned it for a year now and put over 12K on the clock. Boring is not a word that springs to mind must admit. Used as a daily drive by the way, how many (Supercars can you do that with)
ps: maybe I am still alive because its so boring
Hi there marlinmunro,ps: maybe I am still alive because its so boring
My snaps are embargoed until 31 Dec this year for copyright reasons, however I'm sure that I could send you one for your personal use, although I must insist that it doesn't go beyond your screen saver please!
Email me your screen resolution and your email address and i'll forward you on a copy.
The 911 almost guarantees anonymity and reliability...perfect for the everyday commute!
Rod
ps: have emailed you on your web site, by the way some great pictures.
Many thanks Graham M
carsnapper said:
I'd like a supercar with a personality, some character, some exploitable imperfections and one that drew a smile as it passed you by. Soul.
Funnily enough, that sentence sums up what many people think of the 911. carsnapper said:
That unquantifiable character that most all Porsche's, to date, have lacked.
This is totally subjective. Though many would argue that the air cooled cars in particular have an abundance of 'character'. Sometimes too much!
carsnapper said:
It can be argued that most all British sports car and supercars have had buckets of soul and that 'unquantifiable character'
Imo the term soul, and for that matter character, are usually used in defence of some inherent flaw. i.e cars that basically don't work properly a lot of the time. British and Italian sports cars being prime examples of this.Being an owner of a British sports car myself, I know this from personal experience!
Anyway, Vive La Difference!
marlinmunro said:
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Many thanks Rod, I have noticed you said you drove 911HUL a couple of months ago, I have had my 997 for 12 months, is it the same car?
ps: have emailed you on your web site, by the way some great pictures.
Many thanks Graham M
Thanks Graham. Yes I drove it back at the end of July to the 1st week of August, 997 with a spec price of £110,996. Porsche do use the 911HUL for there press mules, that number plate has been used for decades - so there may have been more than one 997 that has adorned that plate. Many thanks Rod, I have noticed you said you drove 911HUL a couple of months ago, I have had my 997 for 12 months, is it the same car?
ps: have emailed you on your web site, by the way some great pictures.
Many thanks Graham M
I haven't received your email or feedback message from my site yet, I tested the feedback form on the site and all was working. Do you want to try sending those details again?
Cheers, Rod
Edward9000 said:
911tt = not super car CGT = super car
599/430 = not super car Enzo = super car
its about more than outright speed which defines them. There is no doubt the new turbo is an absolutely amazing bit of kit but you just can not call it a super car.
rubbish!599/430 = not super car Enzo = super car
its about more than outright speed which defines them. There is no doubt the new turbo is an absolutely amazing bit of kit but you just can not call it a super car.
an a Ferrari 348 or 355 is ?
the 997TT will eat these cars for breakfast using 4 gears, will use the 5th gear to wallop a 360 and 6th gear to glide past a F430....
equinox_uk said:
equinox_uk said:
Just a typical london underground car park..!! Lots of very expensive, hardly ever driven exoticaequinox_uk said:
he probably sold it after realising it didn't really fit in with that crowd I am a huge Porsche fan and the 911 is an icon.
But I would not consider the 997 Turbo a supercar. As said above it is a little boring. It does everything with incredible efficiency, from the morning school run to Tesco's shopping to cruising at 170+ mph on the autobahn, but with little soul.
I think most here would not consider a Mercedes SL 63/65 AMG a supercar, but it does everything the 997 TT does with maybe more style.
For me a supercar (exotic) has to be exciting, challenging, inspiring, jaw dropping (from the way it looks to the way it sounds), distinguishable....
You'd never call a Corvette ZR1 a supercar because it looks exactly the same as a $30k C6.
But the 911 never wanted to be a supercar. It just happened that it did everything a supercar did more efficiently, with less fanfare and more cheaply.
And Porsche owners always have a chip on their shoulders that their beloved is not considered in the same bracket as the Italians. This is why they bring up track performance, price differential, maintainance costs, depreciation (well not now) reliability....
But a supercar is above that. It doesnt matter it is expensive, not reliable etc. It is an object of desire, it does not matter what function it performs...
Ever asked yourself why it was only Porsche and Porsche owners that got ruffled by the GTR time at the ring? You don't see Lambo/Ferrari owners care too much...
PS
Fellow Porsche owners please take the above as said with tongue in cheek. I own 3... it's all in good fun, ok?
But I would not consider the 997 Turbo a supercar. As said above it is a little boring. It does everything with incredible efficiency, from the morning school run to Tesco's shopping to cruising at 170+ mph on the autobahn, but with little soul.
I think most here would not consider a Mercedes SL 63/65 AMG a supercar, but it does everything the 997 TT does with maybe more style.
For me a supercar (exotic) has to be exciting, challenging, inspiring, jaw dropping (from the way it looks to the way it sounds), distinguishable....
You'd never call a Corvette ZR1 a supercar because it looks exactly the same as a $30k C6.
But the 911 never wanted to be a supercar. It just happened that it did everything a supercar did more efficiently, with less fanfare and more cheaply.
And Porsche owners always have a chip on their shoulders that their beloved is not considered in the same bracket as the Italians. This is why they bring up track performance, price differential, maintainance costs, depreciation (well not now) reliability....
But a supercar is above that. It doesnt matter it is expensive, not reliable etc. It is an object of desire, it does not matter what function it performs...
Ever asked yourself why it was only Porsche and Porsche owners that got ruffled by the GTR time at the ring? You don't see Lambo/Ferrari owners care too much...
PS
Fellow Porsche owners please take the above as said with tongue in cheek. I own 3... it's all in good fun, ok?
carsnapper said:
Me thinks the new Panamera is the future direction that Porsche will follow more & more - front engined & 4x4 & RWD layout.
they already own Audi which does front engine 4x4/rwd v.well- why would they change rear/mid engined core product winning formula? As an aside next time you have a chance to drive a 7t try having a go with psm off - be interesting to get your feedback once you've tried it with driver aids off as its a heck of a challenging car to drive well with them off.Edited by carsnapper on Tuesday 25th November 16:00
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