RE: Subaru Quits WRC
Discussion
Fox- said:
Subaru was the only current WRC competitor to make something of its competition.
Like Solberg? Love Subaru WRC? You can go and buy a WRX. It's just like the rally car (Sort of).
Like Loeb? Love Citroen WRC? How about a C4 diesel sir?
And ford, thats why its called the Focus RS WRC car.Like Solberg? Love Subaru WRC? You can go and buy a WRX. It's just like the rally car (Sort of).
Like Loeb? Love Citroen WRC? How about a C4 diesel sir?
Thinking about this more and more, i wonder now whether this was a pro drive decision to clear space for the takeover of Honda F1 team,,,,,,,,, I hope i am right
You've all got it wrong.
This could actually be just what the sport needs.
Why does rallying need to be such a big budget, commercial, advertised motorsport?
The whole point of rallying was to showcase near standard cars and the tallent of the drivers.
I certainly won't miss the current crop of WRC cars. They are almost imposible to relate to. Go back a few years with the orginal minis, with a Sump guard and very little else, showing just was a wonderful little car it was.
I would change the rules to include minimal modifications and proper endurance events.
Not such a bad thing this economic crisis.
This could actually be just what the sport needs.
Why does rallying need to be such a big budget, commercial, advertised motorsport?
The whole point of rallying was to showcase near standard cars and the tallent of the drivers.
I certainly won't miss the current crop of WRC cars. They are almost imposible to relate to. Go back a few years with the orginal minis, with a Sump guard and very little else, showing just was a wonderful little car it was.
I would change the rules to include minimal modifications and proper endurance events.
Not such a bad thing this economic crisis.
GravelBen said:
andyps said:
Hunky Dory said:
Subaru were probably the main reason I got drawn into following rallying way back when.
You poor old thing! Subaru are a relative newcomer for some of us. Not the first rally I went to by any means, but probably the first I marshalled was the RAC when the Quattros were first entered - they were impressive for the total domination.
Actually Subaru started rallying around the same time the Quattro came out, but it was only at national rather than international level - Possum Bourne was running Leones in NZ rallying from 82/83 onwards.Turbobanana said:
Lax Power said:
Hopefully this will spell the end for the WRC as we know it.
Goodbye to the days of spectators squashed into tiny areas 200 yards from the actual stage, £20 per person to go into public forest and 3 stages per leg in daylight because you can't see the sponsorship at night.
Fingers crossed this will bring less expensive cars (RWD) which are more spectacular to watch and sound far better (no turbos).
Dare I say it, we may even see the cars driving on stages covered with ice even if they haven't had 6months to test on it first!
Well said that man. I haven't been to the forests since the days when the Lombard RAC Rally was actually a UK-wide event, not just a few square miles in South Wales. A return to basics, if managed correctly, could be the breath of fresh air worldwide motorsport needs.Goodbye to the days of spectators squashed into tiny areas 200 yards from the actual stage, £20 per person to go into public forest and 3 stages per leg in daylight because you can't see the sponsorship at night.
Fingers crossed this will bring less expensive cars (RWD) which are more spectacular to watch and sound far better (no turbos).
Dare I say it, we may even see the cars driving on stages covered with ice even if they haven't had 6months to test on it first!
if there is one thing that economic crisis can be good for is getting the crazy amount of money out of sport, not just motor sport.
Walton said:
Rather than accepting Subaru's word that this is for reasons to do with the current economic problems, perhaps people should be more skeptical. I'm just idly speculating, but perhaps Subaru want to re-position their brand AWAY from the fast nutty turbo car image. Perhaps they've decided they want a more sophisticated image to build on their Lagacy etc sales?
I cant see it.Rallying sells cars.
Subaru sale a complete range of cars, they have a car for everyone.
Forester for the off roader and mums doing the school run, Legacy for the dog lovers and farmers and Imprezas for the rally fans.
All cars are available in turbo and non turbo options.
Someone here mentioned that the Impreza is too long now, so how about a Justy S2000?
They could sell cheaply for group N, whilst getting it to WRC standard would only cost them an additional ~£30k for the turbo 'n intercooler kit.
It's currently the only Subaru which does not have 4 wheel drive.
They could sell cheaply for group N, whilst getting it to WRC standard would only cost them an additional ~£30k for the turbo 'n intercooler kit.
It's currently the only Subaru which does not have 4 wheel drive.
philis said:
GravelBen said:
Twincam16 said:
...In fact, I can imagine some manufacturers (even including Subaru) might sell their showroom cars to privateers with a 'remove all the interior trim and fit a roll cage' box on the options list.
It's a way for manufacturers to remain involved with the PWRC without spending their own money on it.
Group N (aka PWRC) really isn't far off that as it is, while the roll cage might not be a factory option you've always been able to buy lightweight homologation model Imprezas (Type-RA, Spec-C etc) to go rallying.It's a way for manufacturers to remain involved with the PWRC without spending their own money on it.
To be honest I think Subaru get more grass-roots support/publicity these days from Group N, national championships etc than from whats left of WRC anyway. Combined with the rule change to s2000+ which would require Subaru to build a completely different car for the 2010 season, I can see the logic behind the move.
RIP WRC, hopefully something better will rise from the ashes.
Definitely the end of an era, and a s
te one at that, good riddance inanimate cars, good riddance spectator less stages, good riddance cancelled icy stages.
Definitely excited now looking forward to the next few years, whose your money on for 2010?
Could be anybody in any car in who knows what spec.
Doubt it will be loab as he has stated hes not interested in rallying in s2000 spec cars
If WRC dies out and gets replaced with Group N/PWRC/S2000/Whatever it's called this week, and the manufacturers just concentrate on building customer road-race cars to maintain a link, great.
But, it leaves an ultra-high-performance gap at the top.
What about having the bulk of the competition in Group N, but allow manufacturers to build one-off prototypes in order to attempt to set time records on the world's various rally stages. They wouldn't compete in the rally as such, just see who could build the fastest one-off.
These cars could be, oh I dunno, mid-engined, four-wheel-drive, with superchargers and turbochargers and ground-effect skirts and so on.
In short, the Group S that never was. Don't introduce homologation rules to force 200 roadgoing examples, just limit it to one prototype per major manufacturer.
Well it would give the likes of Loeb and Solberg something to do if they don't want to have to bother beating Joe Public, and would also satisfy a long-standing hunger amongst all rally fans for a return to Group B.
In which case i think the Prodrive P2 is a good candidate for those rules however i suspect they wouldn't do it for the same reasons they stopped the Group B Hypercars. They were deemed just too powerful and eventually people would be killed or mamed in the process of competing!! That can happen today but there you go such are the rules!!
Group B privateers cars would be something else though. A return to RS200 EVO, Audi Quattro's, Inegrale's, 6R4's etc...and a mix of today's rally cars with attitude e.g. a 650bhp Impreza WRC
IMHO let privateers do what they want and stuff the power limits!!
Group B privateers cars would be something else though. A return to RS200 EVO, Audi Quattro's, Inegrale's, 6R4's etc...and a mix of today's rally cars with attitude e.g. a 650bhp Impreza WRC
IMHO let privateers do what they want and stuff the power limits!!
There is another angle to the WRC, BTCC, woes.
The cars that are used these days are so far detatched from the real thing with various strength and power modifications because unlike days gone by, todays cars could not withstand the punishment any more. They are not built to last to make us the punter keep byuing new cars.
Just like wahing machines, you pay £200 + it wont last more than 4 yrs.
They have departments to make sure that the products we buy dont last.
Thats why Britain has no manufacturing no more, all british stuff was over-specked + built to last.
Now its all Chinese attitude, nothing is built to last.
we are all being ripped.
any sugesstions what we do about it.
The cars that are used these days are so far detatched from the real thing with various strength and power modifications because unlike days gone by, todays cars could not withstand the punishment any more. They are not built to last to make us the punter keep byuing new cars.
Just like wahing machines, you pay £200 + it wont last more than 4 yrs.
They have departments to make sure that the products we buy dont last.
Thats why Britain has no manufacturing no more, all british stuff was over-specked + built to last.
Now its all Chinese attitude, nothing is built to last.
we are all being ripped.
any sugesstions what we do about it.
Joscyn said:
There is another angle to the WRC, BTCC, woes.
The cars that are used these days are so far detatched from the real thing with various strength and power modifications because unlike days gone by, todays cars could not withstand the punishment any more. They are not built to last to make us the punter keep byuing new cars.
Just like wahing machines, you pay £200 + it wont last more than 4 yrs.
They have departments to make sure that the products we buy dont last.
Thats why Britain has no manufacturing no more, all british stuff was over-specked + built to last.
Now its all Chinese attitude, nothing is built to last.
we are all being ripped.
any sugesstions what we do about it.
I disagree. We have higher levels of rust protection, crash protection, impact absorption and longer warranties than ever before. Kia are confident enough to offer a seven-year warranty (some manufacturers have 10 year warranties in the US) - back in the '70s and '80s you could predict a car would need major remedial welding by that point. Fiat offer a five-year warranty on their cars - remember the Lancia Beta rusting through its front subframe mountings still within a two-year warranty?The cars that are used these days are so far detatched from the real thing with various strength and power modifications because unlike days gone by, todays cars could not withstand the punishment any more. They are not built to last to make us the punter keep byuing new cars.
Just like wahing machines, you pay £200 + it wont last more than 4 yrs.
They have departments to make sure that the products we buy dont last.
Thats why Britain has no manufacturing no more, all british stuff was over-specked + built to last.
Now its all Chinese attitude, nothing is built to last.
we are all being ripped.
any sugesstions what we do about it.
I think cars will take a hell of a lot of physical punishment these days, far more than they did in decades gone by. The thing that kills cars these days are excessive electronics going wrong. If only manufacturers offered fewer electronic systems and stuck to tried-and-tested mechanical bits, new cars would last forever.
It's sad that Subaru are pulling out of WRC just when I was getting back into it...yeah, I know from a spectators stand point, the WRC is a giant pain in the arse, which is one of the reasons why I couldn't bring myself to go to the Rally GB.
I didn't fancy paying through the nose to stand at ONE point in the stage with this written in the fine print "There is no guarantee that the organisers will run on both stages..... Spectators are not allowed to move between various stages on the day"
This is why I love clubman and open rallys, you pay your entry/parking..whatever, you can move about the stages. Great for spectators, fantastic for us enthusiastic photographers
Long live the RAC Rally
I didn't fancy paying through the nose to stand at ONE point in the stage with this written in the fine print "There is no guarantee that the organisers will run on both stages..... Spectators are not allowed to move between various stages on the day"
This is why I love clubman and open rallys, you pay your entry/parking..whatever, you can move about the stages. Great for spectators, fantastic for us enthusiastic photographers
Long live the RAC Rally
millband said:
I don't think we can turn the clock back on safety. Chris Atkinsons roll could have been fatal in a Group B car or a 70's rally car, as could Gigi Gallis and Duvals side-impacts. Rallying is probably the most dangerous high-level international motorsport?
True, but what's that got to do with the format of the cars? Nowadays you could build a Group B/S prototype with all the side-impact bars, latest generation of tyres and ABS and even the odd airbag and we wouldn't risk another Toivenen/Crespo incident (which, it is suspected, was partially down to Lancia cheating and running nitrous oxide concealed in the roll cage, which goes up like November 5th if ignited).D1H said:
Gutted I started watching rallying when Mc Rae was in a Rothmans Subaru Legacy
I remember racing home to catch the rally coverage on the BBC, with Tony Mason commentating (and getting snowballs thrown at him), and seeing McRae write off the Impreza on its debut against a drystone wall in Wales.Great era of rallying - the last days of the Lancia Delta Integrale, the Toyota Celica GT-Four, and (my favourite), the Ford Escort RS Cosworth. Sainz, Burns, Kankkunen, Auriol, Colin and Alistair McRae. Brilliant stuff.
I think if we go back to Group N, we could see action like that again. I'm actually looking forward to cheaper rallying - might actually make more people tune into Dave (which screened James May's Top Toys last night, putting it further up my 'likely things to tune into over Christmas if other people in the house are watching some three-hour Thomas Hardy adaptation' list.)
Twincam16 said:
millband said:
I don't think we can turn the clock back on safety. Chris Atkinsons roll could have been fatal in a Group B car or a 70's rally car, as could Gigi Gallis and Duvals side-impacts. Rallying is probably the most dangerous high-level international motorsport?
True, but what's that got to do with the format of the cars? Nowadays you could build a Group B/S prototype with all the side-impact bars, latest generation of tyres and ABS and even the odd airbag and we wouldn't risk another Toivenen/Crespo incident (which, it is suspected, was partially down to Lancia cheating and running nitrous oxide concealed in the roll cage, which goes up like November 5th if ignited).sledge68 said:
it only loks the same, only minimal parts are carried over
apart from the super-car humbling performance and 4wd of the road going STi, unlike ANY of the others of course.Fox- said:
Subaru was the only current WRC competitor to make something of its competition.
Like Solberg? Love Subaru WRC? You can go and buy a WRX. It's just like the rally car (Sort of).
Like Loeb? Love Citroen WRC? How about a C4 diesel sir?
Like Solberg? Love Subaru WRC? You can go and buy a WRX. It's just like the rally car (Sort of).
Like Loeb? Love Citroen WRC? How about a C4 diesel sir?
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