RE: Detroit '09: Dodge Circuit EV
Discussion
) in there.kambites said:
pits said:
looks good, if ots cheap enough, just stick a big v8 in it, i would, then send the pics and co2 emissions to greenpeace etc
It's an Elise chassis. Where exactly are you going to put a V8? 
how was I suppsost to know it was elise based, without reading it properly, s
t, I just went, looks like a remodelled electric Viper, hell you can fit a V8 in there, if you were really flush, a V10Hmmm Perhaps some bike engines then
carsnapper said:
ridiculous car.
150 miles range is totally useless, and I suspect that after a years worth of use that'll drop to >100 miles 'real' driving. Lithium batteries are an environmental disaster to build and recycle. It'll take hours to recharge even with a huge industrial 70 amp + output and still uses fossil fuel or nuclear generated electricity to power it.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Play toys for the rich and stupid.
How often do you do more than 150 miles a day?150 miles range is totally useless, and I suspect that after a years worth of use that'll drop to >100 miles 'real' driving. Lithium batteries are an environmental disaster to build and recycle. It'll take hours to recharge even with a huge industrial 70 amp + output and still uses fossil fuel or nuclear generated electricity to power it.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Play toys for the rich and stupid.
What's wrong with nuclear power?
1000TCR said:
Some months ago I've read an article concearning the ecological overall calculation of a car. They came to the clue, that a Hummer H2 is far more eclological then a Toyota Prius until you drove about 150 000 Miles. The battery of the Prius is nothing less then an ecological desaster like "carsnaper" said already.
The article you read was shown to be a load of rubbish years ago.
Blimey lots of moans here. You're missing the fact that this is one of the first steps towards electric cars. It is far from perfect but given how much time and money has been spent on it is pretty good. I hardly ever do more than 60m in a day and if it takes all night to charge what's the problem? I'll be asleep!
Frimley111R said:
Blimey lots of moans here. You're missing the fact that this is one of the first steps towards electric cars. It is far from perfect but given how much time and money has been spent on it is pretty good. I hardly ever do more than 60m in a day and if it takes all night to charge what's the problem? I'll be asleep!
yes, your right, for your specific needs it may well be OK.Let's just ignore the actual costs of achiving all this shall we?
I agree, more development is needed, and the Oil industry is going to do everything it can to scupper this, however, just throwing a battery in a car is not exactly progress, people have been doing that for over 100 Years now, and we have not exactly moved on a long way have we?
Carsnapper Said
“150 miles range is totally useless, and I suspect that after a years worth of use that'll drop to >100 miles 'real' driving. Lithium batteries are an environmental disaster to build and recycle. It'll take hours to recharge even with a huge industrial 70 amp + output and still uses fossil fuel or nuclear generated electricity to power it.”
Just because the car does not suit you does not mean is won't suit everyone.
Over 90% (Source govt survey, haven’t go a link at the mo) of all car journeys are less than 25 miles (the report said “journey” and did not state if it was return or not). Let’s assume the worst case of less than 50 miles both ways. (25 mile each way commute is 11500 miles a year which is fairly close to what cards are expected to do in a year.)
Lots of people commute to work less than 25 miles (I currently do 40 each way so a 100 mile real range is good for me even without a charger at work and I am outside the 90% group than do less mileage).
Lots of people commute on their own, so a four-seater is not needed for the commute.
Lots of people with families have more than 1 car.
For people with criteria above an electric car is a solution because they can:
1) Commute to work in a fun but quiet (and less tiring) way
2) Use the family car if they want to go over 75 miles each way (I have outlaws 290 miles away in Sunderland we only trek up there 2 or 3 times a year)
3) Avoid the current punishing fuel tax and use of imported oil.
4) If it is something that worries you, an electric car makes less plant food overall than a petrol or oil burner even when counting making the electricity at an oil fired station and allowing for transmission line losses. (I seem to remember over 100mpg equivalent is quoted)
As for “environmental disaster” I think you may be confusing Lithium ion whit Nickel metal Hydride cells but I am not sure here - can you link to any real studies saying that L-Ion is environmentally poor?
And “Play toys for the rich and stupid” these cars are the early versions of an emerging technology and I would be proud to be an early adopter which brought this into the heads of the less rich and (presumably less stupid).
If I had the money to do this I would do it having researched the issue knowing the risks and the pro’s and cons I don’t think stupidity comes into it.
The current cars are not economically justifiable as transport (buth neither is a Ferrari!) because of the purchase price and battery replacement costs but for a car with Ferrari acceleration and very low day-to-day running costs they are attractive to the moneyed enthusiast. (Enthusiast seems to be a dirty word these days.)
Battery replacement costs should be much less frequent when the Altair Nano and the LiFePO type batteries become more widely used.
These cars will lead to family versions at lower prices, but I guess time will tell.
Whatever drives the development, be it fashion, global warming hysteria, or fear of dependence on imported fossil fuels. I believe electric vehicles will be come a mass Market reality but I guess it is up to a coupe of decades away.
Just my 2p
“150 miles range is totally useless, and I suspect that after a years worth of use that'll drop to >100 miles 'real' driving. Lithium batteries are an environmental disaster to build and recycle. It'll take hours to recharge even with a huge industrial 70 amp + output and still uses fossil fuel or nuclear generated electricity to power it.”
Just because the car does not suit you does not mean is won't suit everyone.
Over 90% (Source govt survey, haven’t go a link at the mo) of all car journeys are less than 25 miles (the report said “journey” and did not state if it was return or not). Let’s assume the worst case of less than 50 miles both ways. (25 mile each way commute is 11500 miles a year which is fairly close to what cards are expected to do in a year.)
Lots of people commute to work less than 25 miles (I currently do 40 each way so a 100 mile real range is good for me even without a charger at work and I am outside the 90% group than do less mileage).
Lots of people commute on their own, so a four-seater is not needed for the commute.
Lots of people with families have more than 1 car.
For people with criteria above an electric car is a solution because they can:
1) Commute to work in a fun but quiet (and less tiring) way
2) Use the family car if they want to go over 75 miles each way (I have outlaws 290 miles away in Sunderland we only trek up there 2 or 3 times a year)
3) Avoid the current punishing fuel tax and use of imported oil.
4) If it is something that worries you, an electric car makes less plant food overall than a petrol or oil burner even when counting making the electricity at an oil fired station and allowing for transmission line losses. (I seem to remember over 100mpg equivalent is quoted)
As for “environmental disaster” I think you may be confusing Lithium ion whit Nickel metal Hydride cells but I am not sure here - can you link to any real studies saying that L-Ion is environmentally poor?
And “Play toys for the rich and stupid” these cars are the early versions of an emerging technology and I would be proud to be an early adopter which brought this into the heads of the less rich and (presumably less stupid).
If I had the money to do this I would do it having researched the issue knowing the risks and the pro’s and cons I don’t think stupidity comes into it.
The current cars are not economically justifiable as transport (buth neither is a Ferrari!) because of the purchase price and battery replacement costs but for a car with Ferrari acceleration and very low day-to-day running costs they are attractive to the moneyed enthusiast. (Enthusiast seems to be a dirty word these days.)
Battery replacement costs should be much less frequent when the Altair Nano and the LiFePO type batteries become more widely used.
These cars will lead to family versions at lower prices, but I guess time will tell.
Whatever drives the development, be it fashion, global warming hysteria, or fear of dependence on imported fossil fuels. I believe electric vehicles will be come a mass Market reality but I guess it is up to a coupe of decades away.
Just my 2p
OJ said:
kambites said:
Ah, good someone who's driven one. What's it like then?
I'll say it now I haven't driven it, but you really, really have this one wrong!To be fair, I agree that it's unlikely though, given the automotive industry's tendency to lie about such things
With current ranges and charging times for these things (talking generally), even if they were to sell in numbers (which they simply won't in current state) then our roads would surely be gridlocked due to so many them whirring to a halt running out of juice after a couple of hours.
Folk who run out of petrol can usually get going again reasonably swiftly via a can and a return trek to the nearest garage. What are these battery powered people going to do? Carry a spare generator around, maybe a huge spare lithium battery just in case, or maybe they'll knock on your door waving a plug, a cable and a tenner?
I appreciate the pressing need to find an alternative to fossil fuels but, until they do, they should all just stop with this ridiculous nonsense. Just stop it and let us know when you've got it properly sussed please. Thanks.
Folk who run out of petrol can usually get going again reasonably swiftly via a can and a return trek to the nearest garage. What are these battery powered people going to do? Carry a spare generator around, maybe a huge spare lithium battery just in case, or maybe they'll knock on your door waving a plug, a cable and a tenner?
I appreciate the pressing need to find an alternative to fossil fuels but, until they do, they should all just stop with this ridiculous nonsense. Just stop it and let us know when you've got it properly sussed please. Thanks.
CMS said:
With current ranges and charging times for these things (talking generally), even if they were to sell in numbers (which they simply won't in current state) then our roads would surely be gridlocked due to so many them whirring to a halt running out of juice after a couple of hours.
Folk who run out of petrol can usually get going again reasonably swiftly via a can and a return trek to the nearest garage. What are these battery powered people going to do? Carry a spare generator around, maybe a huge spare lithium battery just in case, or maybe they'll knock on your door waving a plug, a cable and a tenner?
I appreciate the pressing need to find an alternative to fossil fuels but, until they do, they should all just stop with this ridiculous nonsense. Just stop it and let us know when you've got it properly sussed please. Thanks.
As above. If you don't want one, fine, don't buy one. Folk who run out of petrol can usually get going again reasonably swiftly via a can and a return trek to the nearest garage. What are these battery powered people going to do? Carry a spare generator around, maybe a huge spare lithium battery just in case, or maybe they'll knock on your door waving a plug, a cable and a tenner?
I appreciate the pressing need to find an alternative to fossil fuels but, until they do, they should all just stop with this ridiculous nonsense. Just stop it and let us know when you've got it properly sussed please. Thanks.
XitUp said:
OJ said:
That's funny, mine usually lasts at least 280.
You must drive like a granny 
OJ said:
And that car wont do 150 miles
Other than this how did you find the test drive?And I'd rather not say, but you might be able to deduce it from my job
kambites said:
How on earth can you say it wont to 150 miles then?
To be fair, I agree that it's unlikely though, given the automotive industry's tendency to lie about such things
Such things tend to be calculated and empirically tested after the initial estimates are released so to speak!To be fair, I agree that it's unlikely though, given the automotive industry's tendency to lie about such things
ETA - Although they may be quoting the production specification
Edited by OJ on Monday 12th January 14:52
CMS said:
With current ranges and charging times for these things (talking generally), even if they were to sell in numbers (which they simply won't in current state) then our roads would surely be gridlocked due to so many them whirring to a halt running out of juice after a couple of hours.
Why would they? Would people not charge them up or try to drive further than they can go?If this was the case then surely we would see far more cars running out of petrol or deisel on the road too?
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