RE: Audi S5 Cabrio

[AKA8]

jonlwright said:

I drive both BMW and Audi (and Porsche)!

IMO Cocks and Good drivers drive all sorts.

Except for Toyota Land Cruisers - they are all tossers.

By the way, stunning M6, lovely colour.

[fastgerman.com]

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

Hahaha it's all good fun!

I personally think that Range Rovers are driven with the most care on the roads and that Porsche Cayenne's and Audi 'fun bus' are driven the worst. The X5's and ML's that I've seen over the years haven't caused any offence.

For a week solid of long distance driving I did recently, there was an idiot in a passat every day on different roads - seriously ridiculous driving, Gumball glamour in his mind in a VW estate on the M25, A3, M1 etc.

320d - I only know BMW drivers who go for the best :-)

Last BMW that has understated good looks (You can't tell me the R8 is understated? I do love it though!) - E30, M3, E36 M3, E46 M3, All M5's except the latest to name a few. There are no understated new Audi RS estates? In my opinion anyway - huge exhausts, massive wheel arches, usually bright blue, chrome everywhere and huge wheels. Usually driven by old men wearing Oakley eye jackets and said blue tooth pieces.

I'd say that many repmobiles are driven badly; 3 series, A4's, Mondeos, Passats, the lot. I couldn't really say that I've ever noticed much difference between the way 4x4s are driven, but the wannabe rappers in Merc GLs, X5 4.6/4.8's, Cayennes and Rangies of all varieties tend to drive like n0bs, probably to a greater extent than Q7's, at least where I live in West London. One other thing which amazes me is the number of E46's I see where the bodykit has been nicked by some rudeboy (who probably drives like a dick) to put on his 318, such is a BMW driver's obsession with showing off ;-)

You can't tell me that any of the M3s have ever been understated (neither is an RS4, I grant you that), it's simply not true. The RS6 though is a different matter, it's much more subtle than an M5 (festooned with its meaningless wing vents and four exhausts, not to mention the arches you mentioned).

R8 is a different story, mid engined sports cars tend to be, see the BMW M1 concept.

Nice Clarkson paraphrasing by the way!

Fair play, I imagine you are refering to the E36 and not the E46? Any E36 can be made to look like an M3 with just wheels and front / rear bumpers, side skirts and wing mirrors. The E46 has a different bonnet, wings, bumpers, wider track etc etc.

I would say the E36 M3 and E46 M3 are more understated than similar performanced Audi's of the time. The E39 M5 is certainly more understated than the RS4 saloon.

Anyway, other than the R8's, I prefer what BMW offer to their competitors, which is why I used to work at BMW Bracknell and not VAG MK. I certainly think that a 335 coupe is more understated than an S5.

Edited by fastgerman.com on Thursday 19th March 15:13

[AKA8]

fastgerman.com said:

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

Hahaha it's all good fun!

I personally think that Range Rovers are driven with the most care on the roads and that Porsche Cayenne's and Audi 'fun bus' are driven the worst. The X5's and ML's that I've seen over the years haven't caused any offence.

For a week solid of long distance driving I did recently, there was an idiot in a passat every day on different roads - seriously ridiculous driving, Gumball glamour in his mind in a VW estate on the M25, A3, M1 etc.

320d - I only know BMW drivers who go for the best :-)

Last BMW that has understated good looks (You can't tell me the R8 is understated? I do love it though!) - E30, M3, E36 M3, E46 M3, All M5's except the latest to name a few. There are no understated new Audi RS estates? In my opinion anyway - huge exhausts, massive wheel arches, usually bright blue, chrome everywhere and huge wheels. Usually driven by old men wearing Oakley eye jackets and said blue tooth pieces.

I'd say that many repmobiles are driven badly; 3 series, A4's, Mondeos, Passats, the lot. I couldn't really say that I've ever noticed much difference between the way 4x4s are driven, but the wannabe rappers in Merc GLs, X5 4.6/4.8's, Cayennes and Rangies of all varieties tend to drive like n0bs, probably to a greater extent than Q7's, at least where I live in West London. One other thing which amazes me is the number of E46's I see where the bodykit has been nicked by some rudeboy (who probably drives like a dick) to put on his 318, such is a BMW driver's obsession with showing off ;-)

You can't tell me that any of the M3s have ever been understated (neither is an RS4, I grant you that), it's simply not true. The RS6 though is a different matter, it's much more subtle than an M5 (festooned with its meaningless wing vents and four exhausts, not to mention the arches you mentioned).

R8 is a different story, mid engined sports cars tend to be, see the BMW M1 concept.

Nice Clarkson paraphrasing by the way!

Fair play, I imagine you are refering to the E36 and not the E46? Any E36 can be made to look like an M3 with just wheels and front / rear bumpers, side skirts and wing mirrors. The E46 has a different bonnet, wings, bumpers, wider track etc etc.

I would say the E36 M3 and E46 M3 are more understated than similar performanced Audi's of the time. The E39 M5 is certainly more understated than the RS4 saloon.

Anyway, other than the R8's, I prefer what BMW offer to their competitors, which is why I used to work at BMW Bracknell and not VAG MK. I certainly think that a 335 coupe is more understated than an S5.

Edited by fastgerman.com on Thursday 19th March 15:13

I was a bit surprised to find my E46 330 sport's bodykit missing when I went to get into it one day. I can only think someone was tarting up their otherwise ordinary 318. I see lots of badly faked E46 M3s around which devalues an otherwise fantastic car. There seems to be a whole industry based around supplying the normal narrow track wings but with the M3 vents in them, it's bizarre.

I think you're forgetting the S4 that competed with the E36, it looked almost exactly the same as the normal A4, save for different alloys, whereas the E36 had some kind of diffuser at the back, more bodykit all round, DTM mirrors etc.

The RS4 of that generation did have far more addenda, that's true, but it wasn't any more conspicuous than that generation of M3. E46 M3's aren't any less subtle than RS4's, particularly in that gold colour used by so many of the early press cars. E39 M5 is one of the stealthiest cars ever made, one of my absolute favourites, but is comparable to the RS6, not the RS4. Again, the old RS6 and M5 would only really be spotted by petrolheads, the new M5 though is far more obvious.

The 335/S5 debate is personal. The sheer number of 3 series on the roads ruined the 335's image before it was even launched. Overall, while it might be less understated, the S5 is classier than the 3 series, partly on account of rarity and also because the A5/S5 is far more differentiated from the A4 than the 3 coupe is from the 3 saloon. The BMW's a very good car, probably better than the Audi in many respects, but its ubiquity makes it mondeo-like in terms of appeal.

[fastgerman.com]

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

Hahaha it's all good fun!

I personally think that Range Rovers are driven with the most care on the roads and that Porsche Cayenne's and Audi 'fun bus' are driven the worst. The X5's and ML's that I've seen over the years haven't caused any offence.

For a week solid of long distance driving I did recently, there was an idiot in a passat every day on different roads - seriously ridiculous driving, Gumball glamour in his mind in a VW estate on the M25, A3, M1 etc.

320d - I only know BMW drivers who go for the best :-)

Last BMW that has understated good looks (You can't tell me the R8 is understated? I do love it though!) - E30, M3, E36 M3, E46 M3, All M5's except the latest to name a few. There are no understated new Audi RS estates? In my opinion anyway - huge exhausts, massive wheel arches, usually bright blue, chrome everywhere and huge wheels. Usually driven by old men wearing Oakley eye jackets and said blue tooth pieces.

I'd say that many repmobiles are driven badly; 3 series, A4's, Mondeos, Passats, the lot. I couldn't really say that I've ever noticed much difference between the way 4x4s are driven, but the wannabe rappers in Merc GLs, X5 4.6/4.8's, Cayennes and Rangies of all varieties tend to drive like n0bs, probably to a greater extent than Q7's, at least where I live in West London. One other thing which amazes me is the number of E46's I see where the bodykit has been nicked by some rudeboy (who probably drives like a dick) to put on his 318, such is a BMW driver's obsession with showing off ;-)

You can't tell me that any of the M3s have ever been understated (neither is an RS4, I grant you that), it's simply not true. The RS6 though is a different matter, it's much more subtle than an M5 (festooned with its meaningless wing vents and four exhausts, not to mention the arches you mentioned).

R8 is a different story, mid engined sports cars tend to be, see the BMW M1 concept.

Nice Clarkson paraphrasing by the way!

Fair play, I imagine you are refering to the E36 and not the E46? Any E36 can be made to look like an M3 with just wheels and front / rear bumpers, side skirts and wing mirrors. The E46 has a different bonnet, wings, bumpers, wider track etc etc.

I would say the E36 M3 and E46 M3 are more understated than similar performanced Audi's of the time. The E39 M5 is certainly more understated than the RS4 saloon.

Anyway, other than the R8's, I prefer what BMW offer to their competitors, which is why I used to work at BMW Bracknell and not VAG MK. I certainly think that a 335 coupe is more understated than an S5.

Edited by fastgerman.com on Thursday 19th March 15:13

I was a bit surprised to find my E46 330 sport's bodykit missing when I went to get into it one day. I can only think someone was tarting up their otherwise ordinary 318. I see lots of badly faked E46 M3s around which devalues an otherwise fantastic car. There seems to be a whole industry based around supplying the normal narrow track wings but with the M3 vents in them, it's bizarre.

I think you're forgetting the S4 that competed with the E36, it looked almost exactly the same as the normal A4, save for different alloys, whereas the E36 had some kind of diffuser at the back, more bodykit all round, DTM mirrors etc.

The RS4 of that generation did have far more addenda, that's true, but it wasn't any more conspicuous than that generation of M3. E46 M3's aren't any less subtle than RS4's, particularly in that gold colour used by so many of the early press cars. E39 M5 is one of the stealthiest cars ever made, one of my absolute favourites, but is comparable to the RS6, not the RS4. Again, the old RS6 and M5 would only really be spotted by petrolheads, the new M5 though is far more obvious.

The 335/S5 debate is personal. The sheer number of 3 series on the roads ruined the 335's image before it was even launched. Overall, while it might be less understated, the S5 is classier than the 3 series, partly on account of rarity and also because the A5/S5 is far more differentiated from the A4 than the 3 coupe is from the 3 saloon. The BMW's a very good car, probably better than the Audi in many respects, but its ubiquity makes it mondeo-like in terms of appeal.

Good points, Mondeo like is a bit harsh but I do recall the sales figures of the 3 series being higher than the Ford Mondeo. Either you could suggest that people would rather buy a BMW or you could argue that therefore the 3 series is not exclusive.

To me the only fast VW I have ever liked is the Corrado VR6 (I've had 4!) and all Audi's I've been in have the VW (of new) boring factor in terms of driving dynamics.

I'd love an E46 CSL in black, lowered on KW's, big bright yellow Porsche Brakes or AP's, 19" BBS LM's and a private plate saying CSL on it :-) oh and a Milltek for some more noise! Ideally with a manual box retro-fitted.

[BAHN-STORMA]

fastgerman.com said:

I do recall the sales figures of the 3 series being higher than the Ford Mondeo.

I believe those figures included the 3 Series Coupes and Cabs (As well as saloons and estates), so not quite a 'direct' comparison.

[AKA8]

I think that's the crux of it, the 3 series isn't exclusive, and it drags the 335 coupe down regrettably. That said, the 3 series is superior to the A4 as a driver's car, there's no doubt about that. The CSL is an incredible car, as close to a homologation special as BMW has made for some time (notwithstanding the 320is), even though it wasn't really raced.

The Corrado is also fantastic, and I think there was a bit of a void between that and the arrival of the second RS4 (if you consider all VAG products to be from one entity), which you must try if you get a chance. Like you, I prefer the manual box.

I was amazed to read in Evo that Audi's marketing dept wanted to keep the nose heavy feel of Audi's (this was a comment from the first test of the S5) despite objections from the engineers. It's these attitudes that keep Audi back in terms of challenging BMW as a producer of drivers' cars.

[kazino21]

Surely the majority of prospective buyers of this car are doing so because of the immense cruise ability, classy interior and peerless build quality as per the old a4 cab, I doubt handling will be much of an issue and I have no idea if the new engine sounds any good but it that would be more important than tackling a corner faster than the BMW

[AUDIHenry]

The Audi variable steering is great once you get used to it. If you're an old timer and a luddite, then yes, you will hate it, but if you're open to improvements, it's a great little thing. After three years of it on my A4, I had a hard time adjusting to standard steering.

The way it works is it is really loose when you are parking or maneuvering, which makes it very easy to control the car at low speeds. When you speed up, it becomes tighter, though if you yank it hard in case of an emergency it gives you enough control to avoid whatever it is you're yanking to avoid.

Anyway, the S5 is nicer inside and out, even if it is not a 1:1 match with the M3. Wouldn't want to be seen in an M3 convertible anyway.

[Zod]

AKA8 said:

There's no way this can handle worse than the 335i cab I had for a few days. It would go between strong understeer and then wild oversteer without much warning. Without doubt, it is the most disappointing (not worst mind) car I have ever driven. Great nosie, engine, gearbox etc, just horrific handling and so heavy feeling.

P.S. If you have the roof down at motorway speeds in the rain, you'd be surprised how long you can stay dry!

not used to rear wheel drive cars then? Funny that no motoring journalist agrees with you.

ETA the cars in your fantasy garage would scare you stless.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 19th March 21:51

[merseyboy]

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

Hahaha it's all good fun!

I personally think that Range Rovers are driven with the most care on the roads and that Porsche Cayenne's and Audi 'fun bus' are driven the worst. The X5's and ML's that I've seen over the years haven't caused any offence.

For a week solid of long distance driving I did recently, there was an idiot in a passat every day on different roads - seriously ridiculous driving, Gumball glamour in his mind in a VW estate on the M25, A3, M1 etc.

320d - I only know BMW drivers who go for the best :-)

Last BMW that has understated good looks (You can't tell me the R8 is understated? I do love it though!) - E30, M3, E36 M3, E46 M3, All M5's except the latest to name a few. There are no understated new Audi RS estates? In my opinion anyway - huge exhausts, massive wheel arches, usually bright blue, chrome everywhere and huge wheels. Usually driven by old men wearing Oakley eye jackets and said blue tooth pieces.

I'd say that many repmobiles are driven badly; 3 series, A4's, Mondeos, Passats, the lot. I couldn't really say that I've ever noticed much difference between the way 4x4s are driven, but the wannabe rappers in Merc GLs, X5 4.6/4.8's, Cayennes and Rangies of all varieties tend to drive like n0bs, probably to a greater extent than Q7's, at least where I live in West London. One other thing which amazes me is the number of E46's I see where the bodykit has been nicked by some rudeboy (who probably drives like a dick) to put on his 318, such is a BMW driver's obsession with showing off ;-)

You can't tell me that any of the M3s have ever been understated (neither is an RS4, I grant you that), it's simply not true. The RS6 though is a different matter, it's much more subtle than an M5 (festooned with its meaningless wing vents and four exhausts, not to mention the arches you mentioned).

R8 is a different story, mid engined sports cars tend to be, see the BMW M1 concept.

Nice Clarkson paraphrasing by the way!

Why should an M3, M5 or RS4 etc be under stated? I don't understand this. If you want an understated BMW, buy a 335i, 540 or the Alpina equivalent. The market caters for all tastes and i would hate to see an understated M5, M3 or RS4.

[AKA8]

Zod said:

AKA8 said:

There's no way this can handle worse than the 335i cab I had for a few days. It would go between strong understeer and then wild oversteer without much warning. Without doubt, it is the most disappointing (not worst mind) car I have ever driven. Great nosie, engine, gearbox etc, just horrific handling and so heavy feeling.

P.S. If you have the roof down at motorway speeds in the rain, you'd be surprised how long you can stay dry!

not used to rear wheel drive cars then? Funny that no motoring journalist agrees with you.

ETA the cars in your fantasy garage would scare you stless.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 19th March 21:51

Maybe I was expecting more from the cab. I drove it on some pretty rural roads where it came badly unstuck. The same roads were absolutely fine in a 575 maranello, E46 M3 and others. The 335 cab though just felt very badly planted. I've read some reviews of it where they said the handling was fine, but I would imagine they've been cruising in it rather than driving it more as a sports car. I'm not a driving expert, but it's the most disappointing car I've driven.

[AKA8]

merseyboy said:

AKA8 said:

fastgerman.com said:

Hahaha it's all good fun!

I personally think that Range Rovers are driven with the most care on the roads and that Porsche Cayenne's and Audi 'fun bus' are driven the worst. The X5's and ML's that I've seen over the years haven't caused any offence.

For a week solid of long distance driving I did recently, there was an idiot in a passat every day on different roads - seriously ridiculous driving, Gumball glamour in his mind in a VW estate on the M25, A3, M1 etc.

320d - I only know BMW drivers who go for the best :-)

Last BMW that has understated good looks (You can't tell me the R8 is understated? I do love it though!) - E30, M3, E36 M3, E46 M3, All M5's except the latest to name a few. There are no understated new Audi RS estates? In my opinion anyway - huge exhausts, massive wheel arches, usually bright blue, chrome everywhere and huge wheels. Usually driven by old men wearing Oakley eye jackets and said blue tooth pieces.

I'm not saying they should be. I was just disagreeing with fastgerman's claim that all M3s were. It's a matter of taste, and I would prefer to have an M5 as stealthy as the E39.

I'd say that many repmobiles are driven badly; 3 series, A4's, Mondeos, Passats, the lot. I couldn't really say that I've ever noticed much difference between the way 4x4s are driven, but the wannabe rappers in Merc GLs, X5 4.6/4.8's, Cayennes and Rangies of all varieties tend to drive like n0bs, probably to a greater extent than Q7's, at least where I live in West London. One other thing which amazes me is the number of E46's I see where the bodykit has been nicked by some rudeboy (who probably drives like a dick) to put on his 318, such is a BMW driver's obsession with showing off ;-)

You can't tell me that any of the M3s have ever been understated (neither is an RS4, I grant you that), it's simply not true. The RS6 though is a different matter, it's much more subtle than an M5 (festooned with its meaningless wing vents and four exhausts, not to mention the arches you mentioned).

R8 is a different story, mid engined sports cars tend to be, see the BMW M1 concept.

Nice Clarkson paraphrasing by the way!

Why should an M3, M5 or RS4 etc be under stated? I don't understand this. If you want an understated BMW, buy a 335i, 540 or the Alpina equivalent. The market caters for all tastes and i would hate to see an understated M5, M3 or RS4.

[Zod]

AKA8 said:

Zod said:

AKA8 said:

There's no way this can handle worse than the 335i cab I had for a few days. It would go between strong understeer and then wild oversteer without much warning. Without doubt, it is the most disappointing (not worst mind) car I have ever driven. Great nosie, engine, gearbox etc, just horrific handling and so heavy feeling.

P.S. If you have the roof down at motorway speeds in the rain, you'd be surprised how long you can stay dry!

not used to rear wheel drive cars then? Funny that no motoring journalist agrees with you.

ETA the cars in your fantasy garage would scare you stless.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 19th March 21:51

Maybe I was expecting more from the cab. I drove it on some pretty rural roads where it came badly unstuck. The same roads were absolutely fine in a 575 maranello, E46 M3 and others. The 335 cab though just felt very badly planted. I've read some reviews of it where they said the handling was fine, but I would imagine they've been cruising in it rather than driving it more as a sports car. I'm not a driving expert, but it's the most disappointing car I've driven.

Well' I'll admit to not having driven a new cab, but I'm surprised at your verdict (not in so aggressive a posting mood when I haven't had a beer or two!).

I'm always sceptical about views on handling: some reviewers criticise hard sprung cars. like the M3 CSL because they bounce around on bad roads. I just see it as part of the fun. My DB9 is a sports pack one and I much perefer it to the normal one.

[AKA8]

Zod said:

AKA8 said:

Zod said:

AKA8 said:

There's no way this can handle worse than the 335i cab I had for a few days. It would go between strong understeer and then wild oversteer without much warning. Without doubt, it is the most disappointing (not worst mind) car I have ever driven. Great nosie, engine, gearbox etc, just horrific handling and so heavy feeling.

P.S. If you have the roof down at motorway speeds in the rain, you'd be surprised how long you can stay dry!

not used to rear wheel drive cars then? Funny that no motoring journalist agrees with you.

ETA the cars in your fantasy garage would scare you stless.

Edited by Zod on Thursday 19th March 21:51

Maybe I was expecting more from the cab. I drove it on some pretty rural roads where it came badly unstuck. The same roads were absolutely fine in a 575 maranello, E46 M3 and others. The 335 cab though just felt very badly planted. I've read some reviews of it where they said the handling was fine, but I would imagine they've been cruising in it rather than driving it more as a sports car. I'm not a driving expert, but it's the most disappointing car I've driven.

Well' I'll admit to not having driven a new cab, but I'm surprised at your verdict (not in so aggressive a posting mood when I haven't had a beer or two!).

I'm always sceptical about views on handling: some reviewers criticise hard sprung cars. like the M3 CSL because they bounce around on bad roads. I just see it as part of the fun. My DB9 is a sports pack one and I much perefer it to the normal one.

I haven't driven the old 3 series cab and don't have much experience of cabs apart from Merc SL's. I like hard sprung cars too but the 3 cab felt very very heavy and wobbly, which meant I never felt happy to lean on it much in corners. It seemed to be more upset by mid corner bumps than I could possibly have expected. Maybe convertibles aren't for me?!

[baz1985]

IMO driving enthusiasts should be principally concerned with driving dynamics and engineering.......image/kudos/exclusivity/Clarkson comments etc should not constitute fastidious considerations......

Anyway, you'll probably observe many youths driving plethoras of exotica in Bradford.......

[oagent]

Forget pice, 335 comparisons, handling and economy.
On looks alone the S5 fails to impress. Theres nothing obviously wrong with it, but theres not much to say in its favor. The s5 coupe is a far more hansom car, and even that cant hold a candle to the bmw or merc at this level. The audi looks too much like every other audi. A Coupe in this price bracket should make you feel more special than the saloon upon which it may well share many parts with.

[J_S_G]

Having just done an Audi (S4 bodykit) -> BMW (M-sport bodykit) switch for the daily hack, I've found three things:

1. When I'm standing outside the cars and looking at them, I love the looks of the Audi. The BMW (E46 in this case) which is a couple of years newer looks significantly more dated. And just not as purposeful/cohesive. One I want, and the other's a bit embarrassing
2. What I'm sat in the car, looking at the car, I love the looks of the Audi. The dash, the dials, the seats, the heater-controls, everything. I'm embarrassed to be seen in the BMW, and I hate the square wing-mirrors, the orange backlights, the 80s courtesy lights, the matching 80s gear stick, etc.
3. When I'm sat in the car, looking out of the windscreen, I love the BMW. It just drives so beautifully - the steering's precise, direct, and well-weighted. The handling is spot on. It copes with poor surfaces fantastically. And I average over 50 to the gallon from it. The Audi's grip (quattro) was prodigious, but it was a much more numb, lifeless drive; probably an easier drive point-to-point, but nowhere near as fun.

I now know why there are so many 3-series with tinted windows - if you can stop people from seeing you in the car, and limit your visibility of the bodywork, etc. then it's just a great car.

[Polarbert]

Sorry to bring this thread up, but that car NEEDS the V8 from the coupe in it! Damn them to betsy for using a V6.