RE: Nissan 370Z
Discussion
havoc said:
Interior a major step-up from the 350Z,
100% agree with that, mate has an imaculate 350Z and we had that and a demo 370Z side by side and the whole build quality is a serious improvement! havoc said:
Rear viz is atrocious though - those quarter-panes may as well not exist from the driver's seat, and the rear window is shallow. Plus the 350Z problem of "where does the bonnet end" is even worse in this..
All round vis was light years ahead of my old XJS that i loved so not an issue to me!!! Seriously ... no regular PH'ers taken the leap to 370z'ness???
350GT said:
havoc said:
MICK E90 M3 said:
I love how it auto down blips, thats pro.
It's a gimmick. Something designed to appeal to the kids, and to the lazy posers who'll buy it for the looks because it'll make them feel even more like the driving gods they're not.
I mean, FFS heel-n-toe isn't the most difficult skill in the world to pick up. OK, to master it takes practice...but isn't THAT part of the fun of driving?!?
http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2009/05/2009-ni...
OK, then I'll put this in the same category as the automated manual gearbox...it's a device aimed at making the car easier to drive for those with little skill and even less inclination to learn...
...and you'll excuse me for suggesting that 300+bhp shouldn't be in the hands of those with those characteristics!
What about someone who has a foot injury? I goosed my ankle, and struggle with a clutch now. Am I not allowed to drive a powerful car, or a car that you deem as fun? Am I not allowed to use an awd car, as that is cheating, as it aids the driver with traction? What about Power steering? Is that for puffs?
350GT said:
What about someone who has a foot injury? I goosed my ankle, and struggle with a clutch now. Am I not allowed to drive a powerful car, or a car that you deem as fun? Am I not allowed to use an awd car, as that is cheating, as it aids the driver with traction? What about Power steering? Is that for puffs?
But you're changing the equation now - you're applying it to your (rather individual) circumstances. You have, for want of a better word, a disability as regards driving. So this in-effect becomes a manual manual with rev-blipping (vs an automated manual which does it for you also). For those of us who CAN heel-n-toe, I still maintain this is a lazy-man's gimmick.350GT said:
So you drive a car with no power steering, direct brakes, non 'sporty' tyres, low power, etc, as these all aid you in going quick, etc. I presume you apply that 'pure driving experience' with these as well?
I drive a Caterham on-track as the first two of those are more involving than my road cars, yes. Probably not the answer you were expecting?!?But your direct argument is specious - a reductio-ad-absurdum of my point.
I'm sure you'll want more of an answer than that though, as you seem determined to get into an argument:-
- PAS is a virtual necessity with modern (heavy) cars, quick racks, and wide tyres. Where not necessary, I do prefer non-PAS though, and if I find the right NSX without PAS I'll be very happy!
- Servo brakes are a safety aid. As is ABS. Synchro-rev control isn't, therefore a completely different argument.
...and neither of the above items, if well-judged, will get particularly in the way of enjoying your driving. Synchro-rev 'does it for you' - like DSG, for example.
Having a computer decide what to do with the throttle DOES. I don't like throttle potentiometers...you can detect the lag while the ECU decides if it agrees with your input or not...and as long as is possible I'm going to make sure my 'fun' cars don't have them.
havoc said:
350GT said:
So you drive a car with no power steering, direct brakes, non 'sporty' tyres, low power, etc, as these all aid you in going quick, etc. I presume you apply that 'pure driving experience' with these as well?
I drive a Caterham on-track as the first two of those are more involving than my road cars, yes. Probably not the answer you were expecting?!?But your direct argument is specious - a reductio-ad-absurdum of my point.
I'm sure you'll want more of an answer than that though, as you seem determined to get into an argument:-
- PAS is a virtual necessity with modern (heavy) cars, quick racks, and wide tyres. Where not necessary, I do prefer non-PAS though, and if I find the right NSX without PAS I'll be very happy!
- Servo brakes are a safety aid. As is ABS. Synchro-rev control isn't, therefore a completely different argument.
...and neither of the above items, if well-judged, will get particularly in the way of enjoying your driving. Synchro-rev 'does it for you' - like DSG, for example.
Having a computer decide what to do with the throttle DOES. I don't like throttle potentiometers...you can detect the lag while the ECU decides if it agrees with your input or not...and as long as is possible I'm going to make sure my 'fun' cars don't have them.
350GT said:
Yes, it is an extreme standpoint, but if you are going to denounce one 'driver aid' facet, then you have to apply them all.
Why? When they perform different functions, and when some are safety related, do you have to apply the same judgement to all???Seems a very narrow-minded viewpoint to me.
Dagnut - yes you can...which is fair-enough, but I still see it as a 'trinket' - something to make the driver look good when they're not.
350GT said:
I was surprised you drove a caterham.. No really, I almost fell off my chair.
Think you will find he has hired/ driven a Caterham once or twice for track days.I am perfectly capable of double declutching heel & toe changes as have done these for more years than I care to count but must say I do like my "automated manual" on my track car. I guess havoc thinks Button & the likes are not good enough drivers for manual boxes
Will agree that this blip button thingy on this is IMHO a gizzmo...
havoc said:
350GT said:
Yes, it is an extreme standpoint, but if you are going to denounce one 'driver aid' facet, then you have to apply them all.
Why? When they perform different functions, and when some are safety related, do you have to apply the same judgement to all???Seems a very narrow-minded viewpoint to me.
Dagnut - yes you can...which is fair-enough, but I still see it as a 'trinket' - something to make the driver look good when they're not.
As for have any PHers taken the leap in to 370Ziness...
Not yet but our demo is due in on 24/07/2009 so i shall take it for a blast when we get the plates on it!
Well XJSJohn, i think there's your answer. PH is mostly UK-based, and they don't go on sale here for a couple of weeks...
I say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
I say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 6th July 16:08
Beefmeister said:
Well XJSJohn, i think there's your answer. PH is mostly UK-based, and they don't go on sale here for a couple of weeks...
I say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
If that was based on what I said, they have been available through the performance centers for a while. No deliveries but you can order. Our romford branch has a black one for a demo and a yellow one in the showroom! IM SOOO JELOUSI say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 6th July 16:08
neil-f said:
350GT said:
I was surprised you drove a caterham.. No really, I almost fell off my chair.
Think you will find he has hired/ driven a Caterham once or twice for track days.I am perfectly capable of double declutching heel & toe changes as have done these for more years than I care to count but must say I do like my "automated manual" on my track car. I guess havoc thinks Button & the likes are not good enough drivers for manual boxes
Will agree that this blip button thingy on this is IMHO a gizzmo...
Caterham - more like 5 or 6 times (still not enough...too expensive!
), but correct. Had a look at getting one as a road/track car to own, but they're TOO much hard-work on a bumpy B-road - the damn thing wouldn't stay in a straight-line for more than 30 seconds, which I know is almost certainly geometry-related, but without time and experimentation I couldn't be sure if it was down to an adjustable part of the geometry or an unadjustable part...nsmith1180 said:
Beefmeister said:
Well XJSJohn, i think there's your answer. PH is mostly UK-based, and they don't go on sale here for a couple of weeks...
I say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
If that was based on what I said, they have been available through the performance centers for a while. No deliveries but you can order. Our romford branch has a black one for a demo and a yellow one in the showroom! IM SOOO JELOUSI say take the plunge and get one - they look fantastic, and sound fantastic, plus all the reviews have been positive.
Just do it!!
Edited by Beefmeister on Monday 6th July 16:08
They have been out for 2 months here but not seen one on the road yet, but that may be because the main stealer is importing cars on order, which does take 2 to 3 months so perhaps we will get a flood of them on the road soon ....
I too sat in one at Goodwood, was very impressed with the quality inside. And, as said, the rear visibility was non-existent!
I need to test drive one really. Got an odd shortlist running at the moment, GTR, E90 M3 or something like the 370Z or a CaymanS/BoxsterS. The wife wants it to have 4 seats where as I'm just bored and want something new.
I need to test drive one really. Got an odd shortlist running at the moment, GTR, E90 M3 or something like the 370Z or a CaymanS/BoxsterS. The wife wants it to have 4 seats where as I'm just bored and want something new.
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