RE: 321bhp VXR Goes Toe-To-Toe With Audi
Discussion
20xe said:
yes the s4 maybe better but nobody enjoys talking to t
ts, or trying to get tts to fix there pride and joy....do they???
But you get people like that at every dealer at some point. It doesn't matter what car you go for, if you take it to a main dealer for servicing etc, you will come up against the pillocks at some point.ts, or trying to get tts to fix there pride and joy....do they???What winds me up is the fact that every opinion expressed by either an Audi or BMW driver, which doesn't rave about how good a cheaper car is, is automatically just being a badge-snob or sheep. Apparently the only opinions that matter are those that agree that a car is brilliant.
And no, it doesn't have real 4WD, neither does mine, and as for being a badge-snob, my next car may well be a Nissan, so that's that theory out of the window.
Sorry, rant over. Now can we actually listen to people's genuine opinions please?
Superhoop said:
vz-r_dave said:
Superhoop said:
Munter said:
Superhoop said:
Lets just wait to see if it handles as badly as previous VXR's.
Yeah I hear the Monaro and the VX200 and the VXR8 are rubbish... Evo even went on about how well the Vectra VXR handled, compared to an Evo and Subaru on the same test. The Corsa was well recieved as well I think.So yeah. They have all been shocking....
They were both over powered, under damped, had poor, uncommunicative steering, terrible brake feel, cheap interiors and had a liking for eating tyres.
But now I've had you're view on cars not remotely related to this (I don't think the Inpignia will be made by either Lotus or Holden) I take all back
I'm not just making a statement based on various press reports, like a lot of others do. I've actually driven both the Astra, and the Vectra VXR (and not for a 5 minute test drive either), and personally think that both cars are lacking somewhat when campared to the competition. The Mondeo ST220 is far better than the Vectra VXR, as is the Mazda6 MPS. The Focus ST is a far better car than the Astra, as is the Honda Civic Type R.
In my own experience, I've always thought that Vauxhall spend far too much time worrying about how much power they add to their hot hatches, and not enough time spent developing the rest of the car to suit. It's a shame, they certainly make good power, just don't seem to be able to use it as effectively as the competition
I think in the current climate, Vauxhall are making a brave, but bold move launching something like this, and would like to think it will encourage other manufacturer's to do the same. There are far too many manufacturer's running away from this sector in favour of green cars, which as a petrol head, definitely isn't a good thing in my book
Edited by Superhoop on Wednesday 15th April 22:49
People are too quick to jump to conclusions based on what manufacturer the car has came from, when really, each car should be assessed individually. Some crap car makers can sometimes come out with an absolute belter once in a while.
Edited to fix spelling and grammar by CorsaScott on Thursday 16th April 00:29
Edited by CorsaScott on Thursday 16th April 00:30
Biggest problem with the VXR brand and this car in particular is Saab. AFAIK it has the 4wd drive system from the Saab 9-3 aero X, the engine from the aero X plus more power and has been developed on a brand new platform rather then the out of date 9-3 platform. Why oh why do GM do this? This car just shouldn't exist it should be the new Saab 9-3 aero but of course GM are the masters at brand engineering aren't they.
Oh and about the handling, the 9-3 aero X went through slalom course quicker then the Porsche 997 tt, Saab only mentioned this in passing whereas they should have been making a much bigger issue out of it because practically nobody knew how amazingly good that new 4wd system was/is. In response to an earlier post if it is indeed the same system as on the aero X it can send all the power to the outside rear wheel to help turn the car, hence the amazing slalom performance.
Oh and about the handling, the 9-3 aero X went through slalom course quicker then the Porsche 997 tt, Saab only mentioned this in passing whereas they should have been making a much bigger issue out of it because practically nobody knew how amazingly good that new 4wd system was/is. In response to an earlier post if it is indeed the same system as on the aero X it can send all the power to the outside rear wheel to help turn the car, hence the amazing slalom performance.
NJH said:
Oh and about the handling, the 9-3 aero X went through slalom course quicker then the Porsche 997 tt, Saab only mentioned this in passing whereas they should have been making a much bigger issue out of it because practically nobody knew how amazingly good that new 4wd system was/is. In response to an earlier post if it is indeed the same system as on the aero X it can send all the power to the outside rear wheel to help turn the car, hence the amazing slalom performance.
Sounds good, but why are people saying it's Haldex then? If it can do that it quite clearly isn't a Haldex system. Ah, we're back to the loss of traction argument again: said:
The XWD system can transmit 100 percent of available torque to either the front or rear wheels. However, for those conditions to occur one end of the vehicle would have to lose all traction, like driving on ice for instance. During a standing start the rear wheels are put to use, without the need for any slip to occur. Then under straight-line cruising conditions, to conserve fuel and driveline wear, the torque split to the rear wheels is reduced to a level between 5 and 10 percent. Also up to 40 percent of torque can be transferred by the eLSD between the two rear wheels to the one with more grip. The system can adjust torque splits based on calculated conditions, such as those that indicate an aggressive lane change maneuver, to effectively reduce overstreer or understeer without any wheel slip occurring. In the event that some wheel slip does actually get to occur, the system can react more timely and efficiently than in the past.
Edited by mitch78 on Thursday 16th April 00:47
NJH said:
Biggest problem with the VXR brand and this car in particular is Saab. AFAIK it has the 4wd drive system from the Saab 9-3 aero X, the engine from the aero X plus more power and has been developed on a brand new platform rather then the out of date 9-3 platform. Why oh why do GM do this? This car just shouldn't exist it should be the new Saab 9-3 aero but of course GM are the masters at brand engineering aren't they.
Oh and about the handling, the 9-3 aero X went through slalom course quicker then the Porsche 997 tt, Saab only mentioned this in passing whereas they should have been making a much bigger issue out of it because practically nobody knew how amazingly good that new 4wd system was/is. In response to an earlier post if it is indeed the same system as on the aero X it can send all the power to the outside rear wheel to help turn the car, hence the amazing slalom performance.
GM has pulled the plug on Saab, and saab have filed for bankruptcy. So no new Aero coming from GM.Oh and about the handling, the 9-3 aero X went through slalom course quicker then the Porsche 997 tt, Saab only mentioned this in passing whereas they should have been making a much bigger issue out of it because practically nobody knew how amazingly good that new 4wd system was/is. In response to an earlier post if it is indeed the same system as on the aero X it can send all the power to the outside rear wheel to help turn the car, hence the amazing slalom performance.
Saab filed for bankruptcy? They've fallen so far...
I really liked the old 900's and 9000's. In fact, I'd love to get a hold of good condition 9000cse hatch. red, with tri-spokes. Back when SAAB was a bit different.
As for this, sorry. Being an Australian it doesn't matter, but if I had the money, no. I'd rather have a 6 in the base model comparo, or Falcon G6E at this end of the market.
I felt compelled to join PH just to make a few comments.
Firstly I do understand people saying £30K is too much for a VX with depreciation being one of the biggest factors (badge snobbery being the other), but in reality the residuals for the insignia aren't as catastrophic as some people believe.
I don't envisage the VXR being that much different to comparable sport versions of these models plus you're less likely to pay list at a VX dealer than at a VW/Audi or BMW. OK I know whatcar is no glass guide but they aren't exactly amateurs in the car buying guide business.
And yes credit should go to Opel for being a mainstream manufacturer that still has the balls to release a car like this considering they're on the brink on bankruptcy and less than a year after the insignia was launched. The vxr could quite easily have been canned which is exactly what GM have done in the states by disbanding its high performance vehicle team.
Note this car is being aimed squarely at the S4 and that in itself is a testament to how this car is being marketed, as a rival to the GERMANS. Even though VX's mainstream rivals don't have a HP version of their family cars I'm sure Opel didn't know this when they were developing the VXR. And this is really where all these negative "because it's a vauxhall" comments become oxymoronic. Vauxhall didn't develop the insignia Opel did.
Designed in Germany
Engineered in Germany
Developed/Tested on the nurburgring in Germany
Built in Germany by Germans
German Build Quality
German Parts
300+hp, 4WD, High Spec, 5 seat 4 door saloon.
once you take VX badge off how much does this really differ to an S4?
For all the vxr's alleged failings u can't deny its seats are the bks
Firstly I do understand people saying £30K is too much for a VX with depreciation being one of the biggest factors (badge snobbery being the other), but in reality the residuals for the insignia aren't as catastrophic as some people believe.
I don't envisage the VXR being that much different to comparable sport versions of these models plus you're less likely to pay list at a VX dealer than at a VW/Audi or BMW. OK I know whatcar is no glass guide but they aren't exactly amateurs in the car buying guide business.
And yes credit should go to Opel for being a mainstream manufacturer that still has the balls to release a car like this considering they're on the brink on bankruptcy and less than a year after the insignia was launched. The vxr could quite easily have been canned which is exactly what GM have done in the states by disbanding its high performance vehicle team.
Note this car is being aimed squarely at the S4 and that in itself is a testament to how this car is being marketed, as a rival to the GERMANS. Even though VX's mainstream rivals don't have a HP version of their family cars I'm sure Opel didn't know this when they were developing the VXR. And this is really where all these negative "because it's a vauxhall" comments become oxymoronic. Vauxhall didn't develop the insignia Opel did.
Designed in Germany
Engineered in Germany
Developed/Tested on the nurburgring in Germany
Built in Germany by Germans
German Build Quality
German Parts
300+hp, 4WD, High Spec, 5 seat 4 door saloon.
once you take VX badge off how much does this really differ to an S4?
For all the vxr's alleged failings u can't deny its seats are the b
ks
DirtyHarry88 said:
Fruitcake said:
DCP 1 said:
THAT over an s4? ..........................................
Yes please.It's better looking for a start.
I know looks are subjective but Audi have been rehashing the same designs for years, with the odd mild tweak here and there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no Audi hater but looking past the badge, I see a car which is more in tune with modern design trends than any four door from the four rings.
If that makes you 'lol' then so be it. I couldn't give a flying about what badge is on my car, as long as the car it's attached to is a good one. And judging by the press reaction to the Insignia, it is just that.
If I remember correctly, the new A4 got a fairly lukewarm reception and probably isn't worth the premium.
VXR'd said:
Unbelievable – one word that sums up 99% of the ‘responses’ in this thread to Vauxhalls announcement of the Insignia VXR 
Vauxhall (a main stream manufacturer) announce a 321bhp, 2.8 V6, turbocharged, 4wd, four/five door car (and even an estate version) for 30K and the response it has received is nothing short of derogatory.
These will be bought by drivers who are not deluded enough to pander to the hype surrounding the frankly ludicrous Audi/BMW craze in this country (and pay throught the nose for it) – drivers who refuse to suffer an inferior product for the satisfaction of portraying an image via a badge that quite frankly does nothing more than suggest they are shallow, insecure souls with insufficient imagination to stray from the flock.
This thread, for me, typifies motoring sites on the internet these days - which are seemingly no longer populated by motoring enthusiasts but general d*ck heads who have nothing better to do than offer misinformed criticism, especially on Pistonheads it seems…
…but then the Insignia VXR doesn’t have proper 4WD, has too many buttons on the dashboard and looks ugly…and it's a Vauxhall...FFS…
Pistonheads, being a dick head matters
Andy
I have a BMW on my drive...its a guttless 320 M coupe, I think the only good things about it are the steering wheel and the seat, I use either a Superb 2.0Ctdi or Vrs Octavia. Vauxhall (a main stream manufacturer) announce a 321bhp, 2.8 V6, turbocharged, 4wd, four/five door car (and even an estate version) for 30K and the response it has received is nothing short of derogatory.
These will be bought by drivers who are not deluded enough to pander to the hype surrounding the frankly ludicrous Audi/BMW craze in this country (and pay throught the nose for it) – drivers who refuse to suffer an inferior product for the satisfaction of portraying an image via a badge that quite frankly does nothing more than suggest they are shallow, insecure souls with insufficient imagination to stray from the flock.
This thread, for me, typifies motoring sites on the internet these days - which are seemingly no longer populated by motoring enthusiasts but general d*ck heads who have nothing better to do than offer misinformed criticism, especially on Pistonheads it seems…
…but then the Insignia VXR doesn’t have proper 4WD, has too many buttons on the dashboard and looks ugly…and it's a Vauxhall...FFS…
Pistonheads, being a dick head matters
Andy
I understand where you are coming from but I have worked for Vauxhall, but would own only a Astra Van if given the choice out of the whole range.
Sorry mate but I do have to agree with 99% of the Piston heads here.
Maserati 3200 and an old Octavia VRS to run around in for the same dosh me thinks.
Piston heads being a d
head matters......
What kind of mad person would buy one of these over the S4?? imo a cheap one
Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
Utterly Clueless said:
Am i the only one who thinks that in side profile, the rear looks like the newish 5 series BMW's?
Saw my first one on the roads the other day, at first i thought it was a BMW, had to look at the badge. Granted this was a glance and from distance, i haven't had a good look but it doesn't look as bad as some are making out??R32UK said:
What kind of mad person would buy one of these over the S4?? imo a cheap one
Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
Is this where the prejudice against vauxhall comes from, it's considered a chav marque? I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees the irony in defending Audi by saying that a vauxhall will tailgate you on the motorway. In terms looks, I will agree with you, the audi is more subtle and restrained, quietly dignified if you will. However, some may say thats posh talk for boring. Saying that the vauxhall isn't as good as the Audi, how do you know? Have you had the first ever drive of it before any press get their mitts on it? Don't jump to conclusions, it may blow the Audi out of the water.Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
R32UK said:
What kind of mad person would buy one of these over the S4?? imo a cheap one
Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
going by the above it would seem that you have driven both cars. could you please explain the following. Lets face facts here, the same people who accuse people of badge snobbery are the ones who are more guilty of it more than most. Buying a vauxhall just to prove a point?? well done!!
The audi demands a higher premium, why?? because people are willing to pay that premium.
The audi will out sell the vauxhall, why?? because its a better car.
The audi will have higher residuals, why?? because its more desirable.
Not to mention that the audi is quicker, better looking (open to opinion), better built, will hold its value better, will last longer, and wont get you stupid looks when you tell someone you spent 30k on a vauxhall.
You will note that at no point have I said the vauxhall is a bad car, its just not as good as the audi which ever way you look at it. Well done to vauxhall for making it as no doubt there will be some chavy sales rep out there rubbing his little mits together just waiting to tailgate you on the motorway.
Can you explain why it is better built?
How it is quicker apart from the 0-60 time?
How will it last longer?
How is it a better car?
I agree as regards to the stupid looks thing lol
As regards to the tailgating chav, you have obviously not driven in germany then? The Audi's are the worst for it, seconded by BMW's. The above comments just proves that you are infact a badge snob yourself
You may well be right corsascott, and i will be reserving judgement until i get to drive one, but based on past performances has and vauxhall ever gone toe to toe with audi and won??
The reason I highlighted the tailgating sales rep is because he does have targets to meet afterall... its not a dig as I have a good friend who does exactly that and drives a vauxhall. The difference is atleast he knows what hes in is pants and aspires to be in something a little better.
The reason I highlighted the tailgating sales rep is because he does have targets to meet afterall... its not a dig as I have a good friend who does exactly that and drives a vauxhall. The difference is atleast he knows what hes in is pants and aspires to be in something a little better.
R32UK said:
You may well be right corsascott, and i will be reserving judgement until i get to drive one, but based on past performances has and vauxhall ever gone toe to toe with audi and won??
The reason I highlighted the tailgating sales rep is because he does have targets to meet afterall... its not a dig as I have a good friend who does exactly that and drives a vauxhall. The difference is atleast he knows what hes in is pants and aspires to be in something a little better.
I don't think Vauxhall has claimed they could go toe to toe with Audi before (in recent memory anyway), which is why I seem to think they may have made something rather good, because that would be a terrible marketing decision to claim they're trying to take down ze germanz but then are no where near the mark.The reason I highlighted the tailgating sales rep is because he does have targets to meet afterall... its not a dig as I have a good friend who does exactly that and drives a vauxhall. The difference is atleast he knows what hes in is pants and aspires to be in something a little better.
Edited by CorsaScott on Thursday 16th April 10:10
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