RE: Clio Renaultsport 200
Discussion
no problem...5678..
I'm not talking about toys..or even build quality really.,..
I'm talking about imagination, interest..a tiny bit of innovation, some emotion..like what they employ for the chassis..
An exterior designer has been used to create an interesting shape for the body, jewellery, diffuser, shapes, body surfaces etc
THEY FORGOT TO EMPLOY SOMEONE FOR THE INSIDE from basic 1.1L to Caterham chasing 200 Cup...its just nasty.
I'm not talking about toys..or even build quality really.,..
I'm talking about imagination, interest..a tiny bit of innovation, some emotion..like what they employ for the chassis..
An exterior designer has been used to create an interesting shape for the body, jewellery, diffuser, shapes, body surfaces etc
THEY FORGOT TO EMPLOY SOMEONE FOR THE INSIDE from basic 1.1L to Caterham chasing 200 Cup...its just nasty.
Agoogy said:
Thats not an answer I accept....You can't simply say most of the money went into chasis dynamics and handling and as result we couldn't afford imagination...that costs nothing, they've used none and it shows.
Nearly allk the competition have used imagination to good effect...the fact they don't have the same standard of chassis engineers is a different conversation to what I'm on about...
Imagination is free, yes, but converting thoughts into reality costs a lot of money, money that would cause the cost of the car to rise. I never said "most" of the money went into the Chasis. I'm afraid you came to that conclusion your self. I say that Renault focus on the chassis more than the ergonomics.Nearly allk the competition have used imagination to good effect...the fact they don't have the same standard of chassis engineers is a different conversation to what I'm on about...
This car is aimed at people who value performance over practicality, people who will happily swap a couple of kilos of leather for a couple of tenths of a second, and you clearly are not one of those people. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, everyone likes a specific kind of car. Arguing about the imagination put into the interior of a budget priced car that is designed for speed not comfort is like me claiming Land Rover lacks imagination because they wont scrap switchable 4WD systems in favor of Fixed 2WD systems.
So you can go and buy the Clio GT, with its soft and squishy bits, and I will buy the Clio Cup and what I lack in imagination I shall make up for in speed and handling finesse, and while I am lapping Brands with a huge smile on my face you can brew me a cup of tea in your on board tea making machine and flush your argument down your integrated NASA technology titanium space shuttle toilet.
fivehitsweak said:
Agoogy said:
Thats not an answer I accept....You can't simply say most of the money went into chasis dynamics and handling and as result we couldn't afford imagination...that costs nothing, they've used none and it shows.
Nearly allk the competition have used imagination to good effect...the fact they don't have the same standard of chassis engineers is a different conversation to what I'm on about...
Imagination is free, yes, but converting thoughts into reality costs a lot of money, money that would cause the cost of the car to rise. Nearly allk the competition have used imagination to good effect...the fact they don't have the same standard of chassis engineers is a different conversation to what I'm on about...
I disagree that it would not have cost any extra money to be more creative. I am sure that the 200 interior and the 197 interior and therefore the gen 3 and gen 4 Clio interior tooling is probably exactly the same. To change it they would have to change the interiors of the entire Clio range, surely you can see how expensive this would be?
These cars would have been manufactured to a strict budget, and I am sure Renault squeezed every penny from it. I am not claiming that the interior of the Clio 200 cup is the be all and end all of creative design, but I am sure that given a budget that they HAD to stick to they used every ounce of imagination they could to create a durable and functional interior that met the desired requirements and remained within budget.
Your argument seems to suggest that the outcome of Imagination should be something pretty. This is not the case though, the product of imagination comes in many forms. My argument is that functional designs born of imagination are just as valuable as Pretty designs born of imagination, and that it takes a lot of imagination to build a car that like this which can be sold for 15 grand.
So sure it may not look like an Alfa, but It goes like a little super car and the pretty cars always break down first for a reason, my Citroen BX did 240000 miles and only broke down once, and all whilst looking slightly less attractive than a ducks arse. Citroen's imagination shone through in the cars robust design and dependability, An ugly car, inside or out, is not necessarily a bad car.
I never said I liked the Clio's interior, I said it was functional and could be a lot worse, and In a car like this, at this price I think that is perfectly acceptable.
These cars would have been manufactured to a strict budget, and I am sure Renault squeezed every penny from it. I am not claiming that the interior of the Clio 200 cup is the be all and end all of creative design, but I am sure that given a budget that they HAD to stick to they used every ounce of imagination they could to create a durable and functional interior that met the desired requirements and remained within budget.
Your argument seems to suggest that the outcome of Imagination should be something pretty. This is not the case though, the product of imagination comes in many forms. My argument is that functional designs born of imagination are just as valuable as Pretty designs born of imagination, and that it takes a lot of imagination to build a car that like this which can be sold for 15 grand.
So sure it may not look like an Alfa, but It goes like a little super car and the pretty cars always break down first for a reason, my Citroen BX did 240000 miles and only broke down once, and all whilst looking slightly less attractive than a ducks arse. Citroen's imagination shone through in the cars robust design and dependability, An ugly car, inside or out, is not necessarily a bad car.
I never said I liked the Clio's interior, I said it was functional and could be a lot worse, and In a car like this, at this price I think that is perfectly acceptable.
Edited by fivehitsweak on Thursday 14th May 15:29
well they managed to fund the tooling changes in exterior design? so they made a decision to leave the interior bland...thats even worse!
when the competition are building ever better quality products, better handling, better built etc
Its not acceptable just to improve the handling, it may be for the ultimate expression on the model, but not when it comes to the entire range. if you stand still you fall behind. The general buying public have already shown their design led.... Patric Le Quement knew this with every product he had a hand in...his retirement can be seen already in a tangeable backwards step in design thought and conviction
Whoopee we have a car that handles beyond all others in its class and most above.. but for what should be a volume seller (the Clio as a whole) it is compromised...
"pretty cars breakdown sooner" are you for real?
How many top of their game performance cars can be named that have such a bland forgetable interior?
when the competition are building ever better quality products, better handling, better built etc
Its not acceptable just to improve the handling, it may be for the ultimate expression on the model, but not when it comes to the entire range. if you stand still you fall behind. The general buying public have already shown their design led.... Patric Le Quement knew this with every product he had a hand in...his retirement can be seen already in a tangeable backwards step in design thought and conviction
Whoopee we have a car that handles beyond all others in its class and most above.. but for what should be a volume seller (the Clio as a whole) it is compromised...
"pretty cars breakdown sooner" are you for real?
How many top of their game performance cars can be named that have such a bland forgetable interior?
Remember that the pictures are of a 200 Cup, rather than a 200 with Cup suspension. This means that it comes with an especially low-rent interior, with many visible interior parts as used on the most humble models. The full-fat version is a plusher affair.
I have a full fat, pre-Cup suspension 197 and think the interior is good for a £16k hot hatch. I previously owned a new Punto for a year and the 197's interior is a more comfortable affair, with softer plastics and more intuitive set-up.
I'm not sold on the front end of the 200. The 197's wide open lower grille accentuates the wide front and rear arches and is a very "clean" design. I think the lower "moustache" on the 200 is especially contentious.
As a package, the 200 will again be very hard to beat. I don't think there's much doubt in enthusiast circles that the hot Clios are a default choice for the keener than average driver. You can spend a lot more money for little benefit.
See my profile for a long-term 197 review.
I have a full fat, pre-Cup suspension 197 and think the interior is good for a £16k hot hatch. I previously owned a new Punto for a year and the 197's interior is a more comfortable affair, with softer plastics and more intuitive set-up.
I'm not sold on the front end of the 200. The 197's wide open lower grille accentuates the wide front and rear arches and is a very "clean" design. I think the lower "moustache" on the 200 is especially contentious.
As a package, the 200 will again be very hard to beat. I don't think there's much doubt in enthusiast circles that the hot Clios are a default choice for the keener than average driver. You can spend a lot more money for little benefit.
See my profile for a long-term 197 review.
Edited by Basil Hume on Thursday 14th May 15:45
shalmaneser said:
If i was in the market for a 15K new car i would look very very long and hard at this car, preferably in black.
Mmmmm.
couldn't you wear a different colour or are you in mourning about the sad loss of a decent interior Mmmmm.
JOKE Renuault lovers... I ALWAYS stop and look long and hard at the 197's I've seen... well resolved design...love the diffuser and lack of wings and stuff...in yellow for me though....or maybe white...Since when did this become a discussion about the entire Clio range? We are talking about the car that was test driven in this review the Clio 200 Cup. You seem to fail to understand that we are talking about a car that will be produced in very low volumes, and will be sold to a very specific clientele. If you don't like it, the thought that went into it or the process that is used to bring it to life then don't buy it! If you think it lacks imagination then go else where. If you desire style over substance then buy something else, and if you desire style or substance then you better get your checkbook out because surprisingly that costs a lot of money.
yes I am for real, whilst i admit it is a generalization I would challenge you to sit down and think, then write a list of every beautiful car there has ever been that was cursed by reliability problems. Then Sit down and think of all the bland every day cars that soldier on without a hic-up.
Agoogy said:
"pretty cars breakdown sooner" are you for real?
yes I am for real, whilst i admit it is a generalization I would challenge you to sit down and think, then write a list of every beautiful car there has ever been that was cursed by reliability problems. Then Sit down and think of all the bland every day cars that soldier on without a hic-up.
Agoogy said:
How many top of their game performance cars can be named that have such a bland forgetable interior?
911 GT3 RSR, no nonsense uncluttered focused and dare i say it, Bland interior.... why? Because it is a car made to drive, not just to sit in.Edited by fivehitsweak on Thursday 14th May 16:27
Edited by fivehitsweak on Thursday 14th May 16:29
fivehitsweak said:
Since when did this become a discussion about the entire Clio range?
since I mentioned the interior of the 200 Cup is s
te...as it uses the same ste ineterior as the entire range...fivehitsweak said:
We are talking about the car that was test driven in this review the Clio 200 Cup. You seem to fail to understand that we are talking about a car that will be produced in very low volumes, and will be sold to a very specific clientele. If you don't like it, the thought that went into it or the process that is used to bring it to life then don't buy it! If you think it lacks imagination then go else where. If you desire style over substance then buy something else, and if you desire style or substance then you better get your checkbook out because surprisingly that costs a lot of money.
you need a handbag mate, raise it to your chest and let out a protracted "ooOOH!"I don't desire style over substance I desire both, and its available.
fivehitsweak said:
Agoogy said:
"pretty cars breakdown sooner" are you for real?
yes I am for real, whilst i admit it is a generalization I would challenge you to sit down and think, then write a list of every beautiful car there has ever been that was cursed by reliability problems. Then Sit down and think of all the bland every day cars that soldier on without a hic-up.
fivehitsweak said:
agoogy said:
How many top of their game performance cars can be named that have such a bland forgetable interior?
911 GT3 RSR, no nonsense uncluttered focused and dare i say it, Bland interior.... why? Because it is a car made to drive, not just to sit in. your funny...uncluttered does not equal bland...
So he who earlier accused a fellow poster of getting personal now gets personal?
Why prey tell do I need a hand bag? There is no need to degrade this conversation to the point of childish slurs on each others sexuality. It only goes to show your frustrations at the lack of substance in your argument.
"hehe your funny...
uncluttered does not equal bland..."
And yet I stated that I find the GT3 RSR's interior to be bland, uncluttered AND bland.
Anyway, end your ceaseless trolling of this thread, you are clearly impossible to please and I will not continue to argue with you over what I am sure is a great car.
And as for my statement being Tripe? Well you are of course allowed to think that but I am sure that your opinion is based solely on the fact that it is the opposite of mine.
Why prey tell do I need a hand bag? There is no need to degrade this conversation to the point of childish slurs on each others sexuality. It only goes to show your frustrations at the lack of substance in your argument.
"hehe your funny...
uncluttered does not equal bland..."
And yet I stated that I find the GT3 RSR's interior to be bland, uncluttered AND bland.
Anyway, end your ceaseless trolling of this thread, you are clearly impossible to please and I will not continue to argue with you over what I am sure is a great car.
And as for my statement being Tripe? Well you are of course allowed to think that but I am sure that your opinion is based solely on the fact that it is the opposite of mine.
fivehitsweak said:
So he who earlier accused a fellow poster of getting personal now gets personal?
Why prey tell do I need a hand bag? There is no need to degrade this conversation to the point of childish slurs on each others sexuality. It only goes to show your frustrations at the lack of substance in your argument.
my response was justified only by your vitriol and unneccesary suggestion that if i don't like i shouldn't get one... since when has the opportunity of buying one..or not... been a scenario that prevents an opionion being aired?Why prey tell do I need a hand bag? There is no need to degrade this conversation to the point of childish slurs on each others sexuality. It only goes to show your frustrations at the lack of substance in your argument.
fivehitsweak said:
"hehe your funny...
uncluttered does not equal bland..."
And yet I stated that I find the GT3 RSR's interior to be bland, uncluttered AND bland.
So cluttered equals interesting then, fair enough....uncluttered does not equal bland..."
And yet I stated that I find the GT3 RSR's interior to be bland, uncluttered AND bland.
fivehitsweak said:
Anyway, end your ceaseless trolling of this thread, you are clearly impossible to please and I will not continue to argue with you over what I am sure is a great car.
And as for my statement being Tripe? Well you are of course allowed to think that but I am sure that your opinion is based solely on the fact that it is the opposite of mine.
not impossible to please, just expressing a dissapointed opinion on one aspect of a fine car...and my opinion is based on my own requirements...what kind of nob would base an opinion simply on the opposite of someone elses?! thats insane!! I'm not 12.... And as for my statement being Tripe? Well you are of course allowed to think that but I am sure that your opinion is based solely on the fact that it is the opposite of mine.
I never said that cluttered equals interesting, anything else I didn't say that you would like to dissect with your fantastic reasoning skills?
Also my advise that you shouldn't buy a Clio 200 Cup was meant with your best interests in mind. I don't think you would like it, the interior isn't up to your standards.
I shall now give you an opportunity to have the last word on this, go ahead, do your worst
Also my advise that you shouldn't buy a Clio 200 Cup was meant with your best interests in mind. I don't think you would like it, the interior isn't up to your standards.
I shall now give you an opportunity to have the last word on this, go ahead, do your worst
Loving the interior discussion when we have one of the best handling, most focused hot hatches presented to us!
I owned a 172 Cup for 2 years, as driving goes it was the best two years of my life. The interior...absolutely bloody awful. Did I care once, even when sat in traffic with 'nothing else to look at?' No chance, I knew what I was buying into and it never even crossed my mind during the time I owned it.
As has been mentioned, we are discussing the Cup, not a 200 with Cup packs. 'Poverty spec' has and always will be associated with it, that's the whole point. Keep costs to a minimum, shed as much weight as possible without incurring extra expense, job done.
I owned a 172 Cup for 2 years, as driving goes it was the best two years of my life. The interior...absolutely bloody awful. Did I care once, even when sat in traffic with 'nothing else to look at?' No chance, I knew what I was buying into and it never even crossed my mind during the time I owned it.
As has been mentioned, we are discussing the Cup, not a 200 with Cup packs. 'Poverty spec' has and always will be associated with it, that's the whole point. Keep costs to a minimum, shed as much weight as possible without incurring extra expense, job done.
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