RE: Porsche Panamera Driven

[Jackal2k9]

camyug said:

Munter said:

camyug said:

Most of you bums dream of scabby Subarus with spoilers bigger than your manhoods, financed by your depleted credit cards.

Said a man who doesn't know his audience.

You are right though. Porsche doesn't need anybody on here to buy one. They only need the people who buy badges as they think it shows off just how trendy they are to buy them. Which is fine. So long as they keep producing cars like the 911 GT3 RS who gives a toss what other tripe they produce off the back of it.

The audience at P'heads is very easy to understand. It does group think better than anywhere on the net, which is quite an achievement.

On and on it goes, the Panam is ugly, blah blah, it's gay and ugly. Why? Because a pair of a'holes on Top Gear said so, and you all want to be part of this club that can't think for itself.

The GTR is ugly. FACT. All Skylines were ugly. But that ugliness is ok. But Porsche ugliness, which P'headers can't afford, is baaaad. And it's German, even worse, oh and only bankers buy Porsches, worse still. So you conclude, the new Porsche is VERY ugly. It's an elitist response, mixed with envy.

The GTR is cool, it's hip, it's what all P'headers aspire too, so its ugliness is OK. In fact it makes it cooler. The same goes for all the wannabe rally cars.

Porsche isn't in business because of the 911. The GT3 RS is produced off the back of everything they make that makes money. That started a few years ago with the 924. It saved them. The Cayenne makes money, all GT3 owners should thank them.

I love the GTR, it looks purposeful, I love the Panam, its big butt allows you carry stuff and people, in a way that the competition can only aspire.

All the Porsche owners I know, and no I'm not one, are less flaky than other types, they don't do badges, or are concerned how trendy they appear. That's the preserve of Aston owners, the pathetic wannabe Bonds, now THAT'S gay!. I love the Maser, I've always had Alfas and Lancias, but that Maser will depreciate and frustrate. Lambo's 4 door offering is a joke, with its ugly snow plough nose, for owners that think a watch bigger than Flavor Flav's says they're men of distinction.

People, with money, that want speed and space, and reliability, will buy the Panam in droves, because it's the smart option.

P'headers aren't smart. But they are very cliquey.

you slag people on here then you say you like alfa's?


dear me my friend love is blind alfa's are a complete cliche of a car fact is i havent listened to any1 on top gear this car is clearly a disgrace to the porsche brand, the cayenne is a disgrace to the porsche brand as well much like the 4x4's built my mercedes! marque builders should stick to what they know not what they think people want! the GT3 is a stunning looking car and when you sit it next to the pan you cant understand why on earth porsche ever bothered its like a dogs dinner and to say porsche owners or any super car owners for that matter 'dont do badges' is a lot of utter ste because if they didnt do badges they wouldnt be rolling about in their penis extensions! and quite frankly sir i suspect you have a jealously in the matter and also saying people can afford GTR's but cant afford porches is a lot of horse st as well because really you can pick up an equally good 2nd hand porsche for the price of the GTR!

rant over

[10 Pence Short]

Don't judge it as a Porsche. Judge it as a car.

What would you think of it if it didn't have the Porsche badge?

I'd think it was an ugly piece of crap designed by the same guy who did a bunch of Ssangyongs.

[Kawasicki]

j123 said:

--Right here on this very site Mr. Towler wrote about his driving experience with the Panamera (now granted when he used to work for Autocar I bet he would not have been allowed to say this...) and said:

"there’s understeer initially, but with the roads slick following a rain shower, it’s surprisingly easy to feel the rear moving around through the tighter stuff. The trouble is, you really find yourself worrying about taking up so much road space, and the width is constantly on your mind, with regular sharp intakes of breath when a truck comes the other way."

Is this not a clear enough statement about what its like to drive this car in a semi-sporting manner befitting a Porsche?

Indeed no such words have ever been spoken about other high performance sedans like any M5 or Quattroporte or Jaguar. JL

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying it's a clear statement that the car doesn't handle well, or that is does handle well? Every well tuned car has initial and constant managed understeer. What needs to be avoided is a lack of adjustability. Cars with no understeer are pretty difficult to drive, they are also slow to follow inputs, horrible on the road, and only fun on a track because they are so challenging. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER OVERSTEER!

Finally, I find it easy to get accustomed to a big car. It is part of the challenge of driving.

[10 Pence Short]

Kawasicki said:

j123 said:

--Right here on this very site Mr. Towler wrote about his driving experience with the Panamera (now granted when he used to work for Autocar I bet he would not have been allowed to say this...) and said:

"there’s understeer initially, but with the roads slick following a rain shower, it’s surprisingly easy to feel the rear moving around through the tighter stuff. The trouble is, you really find yourself worrying about taking up so much road space, and the width is constantly on your mind, with regular sharp intakes of breath when a truck comes the other way."

Is this not a clear enough statement about what its like to drive this car in a semi-sporting manner befitting a Porsche?

Indeed no such words have ever been spoken about other high performance sedans like any M5 or Quattroporte or Jaguar. JL

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying it's a clear statement that the car doesn't handle well, or that is does handle well? Every well tuned car has initial and constant managed understeer. What needs to be avoided is a lack of adjustability. Cars with no understeer are pretty difficult to drive, they are also slow to follow inputs, horrible on the road, and only fun on a track because they are so challenging. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER OVERSTEER!

Finally, I find it easy to get accustomed to a big car. It is part of the challenge of driving.

Cars with initial understeer are often boring, though. It's a symptom of cover-your-arse that plagues manufacturers. It's the same breed of litigation led bullsh*ttery that tells you to always put the best tyres on the rear.

[Kawasicki]

10 Pence Short said:

Kawasicki said:

j123 said:

--Right here on this very site Mr. Towler wrote about his driving experience with the Panamera (now granted when he used to work for Autocar I bet he would not have been allowed to say this...) and said:

"there’s understeer initially, but with the roads slick following a rain shower, it’s surprisingly easy to feel the rear moving around through the tighter stuff. The trouble is, you really find yourself worrying about taking up so much road space, and the width is constantly on your mind, with regular sharp intakes of breath when a truck comes the other way."

Is this not a clear enough statement about what its like to drive this car in a semi-sporting manner befitting a Porsche?

Indeed no such words have ever been spoken about other high performance sedans like any M5 or Quattroporte or Jaguar. JL

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying it's a clear statement that the car doesn't handle well, or that is does handle well? Every well tuned car has initial and constant managed understeer. What needs to be avoided is a lack of adjustability. Cars with no understeer are pretty difficult to drive, they are also slow to follow inputs, horrible on the road, and only fun on a track because they are so challenging. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER OVERSTEER!

Finally, I find it easy to get accustomed to a big car. It is part of the challenge of driving.

Cars with initial understeer are often boring, though. It's a symptom of cover-your-arse that plagues manufacturers. It's the same breed of litigation led bullsh*ttery that tells you to always put the best tyres on the rear.

No it isn't a "cover your arse" tactic. It's a fundamental of vehicle dynamics that cars must understeer if you want rapid and clean steering response. Where do you get your facts from?

[Jackal2k9]

10 Pence Short said:

Don't judge it as a Porsche. Judge it as a car.

What would you think of it if it didn't have the Porsche badge?

I'd think it was an ugly piece of crap designed by the same guy who did a bunch of Ssangyongs.

doesnt matter on the badge it reminds me of the X6....odd looking not pleasant on the eye..they will sell tho because the golf club members will think there cool!

[10 Pence Short]

Kawasicki said:

10 Pence Short said:

Kawasicki said:

j123 said:

--Right here on this very site Mr. Towler wrote about his driving experience with the Panamera (now granted when he used to work for Autocar I bet he would not have been allowed to say this...) and said:

"there’s understeer initially, but with the roads slick following a rain shower, it’s surprisingly easy to feel the rear moving around through the tighter stuff. The trouble is, you really find yourself worrying about taking up so much road space, and the width is constantly on your mind, with regular sharp intakes of breath when a truck comes the other way."

Is this not a clear enough statement about what its like to drive this car in a semi-sporting manner befitting a Porsche?

Indeed no such words have ever been spoken about other high performance sedans like any M5 or Quattroporte or Jaguar. JL

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying it's a clear statement that the car doesn't handle well, or that is does handle well? Every well tuned car has initial and constant managed understeer. What needs to be avoided is a lack of adjustability. Cars with no understeer are pretty difficult to drive, they are also slow to follow inputs, horrible on the road, and only fun on a track because they are so challenging. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER OVERSTEER!

Finally, I find it easy to get accustomed to a big car. It is part of the challenge of driving.

Cars with initial understeer are often boring, though. It's a symptom of cover-your-arse that plagues manufacturers. It's the same breed of litigation led bullsh*ttery that tells you to always put the best tyres on the rear.

No it isn't a "cover your arse" tactic. It's a fundamental of vehicle dynamics that cars must understeer if you want rapid and clean steering response. Where do you get your facts from?

Sorry, I was talking about the inherent front-end-straight-on disease that even so-called purists such as Lotus build into their cars these days.

Like the 'Revo Knuckle' Ford used to distract people away from the fact the Focus is wrong wheel drive, manufacturers will do anything to tell you they've done something for purity instead of bean counting.

[Kawasicki]

10 Pence Short said:

Kawasicki said:

10 Pence Short said:

Kawasicki said:

j123 said:

--Right here on this very site Mr. Towler wrote about his driving experience with the Panamera (now granted when he used to work for Autocar I bet he would not have been allowed to say this...) and said:

"there’s understeer initially, but with the roads slick following a rain shower, it’s surprisingly easy to feel the rear moving around through the tighter stuff. The trouble is, you really find yourself worrying about taking up so much road space, and the width is constantly on your mind, with regular sharp intakes of breath when a truck comes the other way."

Is this not a clear enough statement about what its like to drive this car in a semi-sporting manner befitting a Porsche?

Indeed no such words have ever been spoken about other high performance sedans like any M5 or Quattroporte or Jaguar. JL

I honestly don't get your point. Are you saying it's a clear statement that the car doesn't handle well, or that is does handle well? Every well tuned car has initial and constant managed understeer. What needs to be avoided is a lack of adjustability. Cars with no understeer are pretty difficult to drive, they are also slow to follow inputs, horrible on the road, and only fun on a track because they are so challenging. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT POWER OVERSTEER!

Finally, I find it easy to get accustomed to a big car. It is part of the challenge of driving.

Cars with initial understeer are often boring, though. It's a symptom of cover-your-arse that plagues manufacturers. It's the same breed of litigation led bullsh*ttery that tells you to always put the best tyres on the rear.

No it isn't a "cover your arse" tactic. It's a fundamental of vehicle dynamics that cars must understeer if you want rapid and clean steering response. Where do you get your facts from?

Sorry, I was talking about the inherent front-end-straight-on disease that even so-called purists such as Lotus build into their cars these days.

Like the 'Revo Knuckle' Ford used to distract people away from the fact the Focus is wrong wheel drive, manufacturers will do anything to tell you they've done something for purity instead of bean counting.

The front-end straight on thing that you mention is possibly unadjustable terminal understeer, which is about as scary as it gets. Cars which understeer at the limit are fine, those that don't react by tightening their line when you lift off are the ones you need to slag off. The tyres characteristics have such a huge influence on this.

Can't slag Ford off for the Revo Knuckle. It is a nice idea, well executed, from what I've read.

[10 Pence Short]

Kawasicki said:

Can't slag Ford off for the Revo Knuckle. It is a nice idea, well executed, from what I've read.

No you can't because, as far as I'm aware, it was a Renault idea used on the Renaultsport cars first. It's just they didn't give it a snazzy brand name to take attention away from obvious questions...

[Jackal2k9]

10 Pence Short said:

Kawasicki said:

Can't slag Ford off for the Revo Knuckle. It is a nice idea, well executed, from what I've read.

No you can't because, as far as I'm aware, it was a Renault idea used on the Renaultsport cars first. It's just they didn't give it a snazzy brand name to take attention away from obvious questions...

did ford steal it from renault then? cn as it started out on the megane RS and the clio sports???

Edited by Jackal2k9 on Saturday 4th July 12:00

[Jimmyslovinit]

Anybody for an S63 instead?

[Dagnut]

Jimmyslovinit said:

Anybody for an S63 instead?

Thats exactly it..It needed to be in a different league in terms of performance and it isn't.

[Zod]

camyug said:

Zod said:

camyug said:

Porsche doesn't need anyone from P'heads to buy one. Most of you bums dream of scabby Subarus with spoilers bigger than your manhoods, financed by your depleted credit cards.

That Porsche will annihilate the competition, you can't carry a thing in the Maser, the Rapide is trying too hard to be a DB9, the Lambo is for chronic attention seekers, the SS Staff car on the other hand has epic rear leg room, the seats fold down and you can stuff the remains of the British car industry in the back.

What bridge did you crawl out from under?

Is that the best you can come up with? Lame. You must be a Subaru dreamer.

and you are so stupid that you cannot even check my profile which would show you that I am Porsche's dream customer for this car. You are an idiot.

[teapea]

again, I wish porsche would stop making cars that look 911's that aren't

However if money were no object and i had kids and had to buy a sensible everyday car for the school run, I would test drive one,

got to be more fun than a range rover or 7 series?

[Zod]

perhaps, but 7s are surprisingly good to drive.

[teapea]

your probably right there,
but I should imagine the porsche would be more fun,
mind you, audi RS6 and bmw M5 pretty much have that market covered

so on second thoughts, sod the porsche it's too ugly i will have the M5

[Fittster]

Zod said:

perhaps, but 7s are surprisingly good to drive.

But what do you mean by that? Maybe I'm not getting out enough but I don't see oversteering exec saloons being thrown down my local B-Roads and track days don't seem to be full of them.

What seems to happen is that they power up and down motorways when not stuck in traffic so how important is the handling of a exec saloon? It seems a rather unimportant factor in this class of car.

[cramorra]

adycav said:

Dagnut said:

its 5 inches...thats a lot

That's what I keep telling my missus.

I honestly think it looks the thing, low, wide
if it drives well I am also up for buying one early 2nd hand- if anybody will buy them new...
Given the speed transits are trashing around in the UK... the roads shouldn#t slow you down to much...

[Zod]

No, you don't see that, but I hired one in Germany a couple of years ago to go to a friend's weekend at his hunting lodge and got in some serious oversteer fun on the wide gravel tracks through the woods. The 7 really can be a fun car to drive.

[cramorra]

camyug said:

Munter said:

camyug said:

Most of you bums dream of scabby Subarus with spoilers bigger than your manhoods, financed by your depleted credit cards.

Said a man who doesn't know his audience.

You are right though. Porsche doesn't need anybody on here to buy one. They only need the people who buy badges as they think it shows off just how trendy they are to buy them. Which is fine. So long as they keep producing cars like the 911 GT3 RS who gives a toss what other tripe they produce off the back of it.

The audience at P'heads is very easy to understand. It does group think better than anywhere on the net, which is quite an achievement.

On and on it goes, the Panam is ugly, blah blah, it's gay and ugly. Why? Because a pair of a'holes on Top Gear said so, and you all want to be part of this club that can't think for itself.

The GTR is ugly. FACT. All Skylines were ugly. But that ugliness is ok. But Porsche ugliness, which P'headers can't afford, is baaaad. And it's German, even worse, oh and only bankers buy Porsches, worse still. So you conclude, the new Porsche is VERY ugly. It's an elitist response, mixed with envy.

The GTR is cool, it's hip, it's what all P'headers aspire too, so its ugliness is OK. In fact it makes it cooler. The same goes for all the wannabe rally cars.

Porsche isn't in business because of the 911. The GT3 RS is produced off the back of everything they make that makes money. That started a few years ago with the 924. It saved them. The Cayenne makes money, all GT3 owners should thank them.

I love the GTR, it looks purposeful, I love the Panam, its big butt allows you carry stuff and people, in a way that the competition can only aspire.

All the Porsche owners I know, and no I'm not one, are less flaky than other types, they don't do badges, or are concerned how trendy they appear. That's the preserve of Aston owners, the pathetic wannabe Bonds, now THAT'S gay!. I love the Maser, I've always had Alfas and Lancias, but that Maser will depreciate and frustrate. Lambo's 4 door offering is a joke, with its ugly snow plough nose, for owners that think a watch bigger than Flavor Flav's says they're men of distinction.

People, with money, that want speed and space, and reliability, will buy the Panam in droves, because it's the smart option.

P'headers aren't smart. But they are very cliquey.

but luckily the speciality forums are nicer and good fun- even a Porsche one on here...