Could Ford make premium brand cars?
Discussion
350GT said:
You think Lexus is just an image, and not premium?
I had a look inside an LS200 today and wasn't impressed but that's what you get for upgrading a Toyota. I would say Lexus is a premium brand but still lacks the badge cachet of the Germans by a considerable degree, simply because it has no history behind it, it's made up.350GT said:
You think Lexus is just an image, and not premium?
Err no, sorry, worded it a bit wrongly.I personally think of Lexus as being premium.
What I meant was a lot of people seem to determine based simply on the name and brand. i.e. BMW is premium even though IMO lots of their cars aren't. This is a problem Lexus had when they first launched, as people knew they were just Toyotas.
If you see what I mean...
Alfa_75_Steve said:
350GT said:
You think Lexus is just an image, and not premium?
They're sold as Toyotas in Japan, so, the answer can only be yes.They're also what you get when you ask Matsui to design a luxury interior....
I know it's trendy to diss Audis on here but use your eyes - people are buying them, they're everywhere and have good residuals so must be desirable to a large proportion of the population if not certain PH members. I bet many manufacturers would kill for what Audi's got at the moment. And they're doing it all with rebadged VWs, sort of.
Some people don't like how Fords drive - I don't rate the Mk1 Focus much, nor the older Fiesta, but I've heard from many friends that the previous gen Fiesta is a good drive. Magazines seem to rate it. And I remember very well when Evo tested the Fiesta ST and raved to heaven about its handling equal to/better than its contemporaries like the Clio Renaultsport, Corsa VXR, and some others I can't remember, so I'm just taking the combined opinions I have heard as I haven't driven one.
And finally yes, I was indeed getting mildly excited about the thought of driving a Fiesta, but surely there's nothing wrong with that? I think it's about driving pleasure, fun, and making something slow go fast, not the fact it's a Fiesta. I wonder if even some people here are put off by the badge/looks.
I did totally forget about the X-type though, noone bought that, hmm. Possibly people were put off because it's Mondeo basis is the most stigmatised mainstream Ford of all, and the Jaguar badge/styling they put on it has an image problem too. Or maybe my idea was completely wrong (I'm sure people will use that statement as a stick to beat me with!).
Some people don't like how Fords drive - I don't rate the Mk1 Focus much, nor the older Fiesta, but I've heard from many friends that the previous gen Fiesta is a good drive. Magazines seem to rate it. And I remember very well when Evo tested the Fiesta ST and raved to heaven about its handling equal to/better than its contemporaries like the Clio Renaultsport, Corsa VXR, and some others I can't remember, so I'm just taking the combined opinions I have heard as I haven't driven one.
And finally yes, I was indeed getting mildly excited about the thought of driving a Fiesta, but surely there's nothing wrong with that? I think it's about driving pleasure, fun, and making something slow go fast, not the fact it's a Fiesta. I wonder if even some people here are put off by the badge/looks.
I did totally forget about the X-type though, noone bought that, hmm. Possibly people were put off because it's Mondeo basis is the most stigmatised mainstream Ford of all, and the Jaguar badge/styling they put on it has an image problem too. Or maybe my idea was completely wrong (I'm sure people will use that statement as a stick to beat me with!).
350GT said:
Alfa_75_Steve said:
350GT said:
You think Lexus is just an image, and not premium?
They're sold as Toyotas in Japan, so, the answer can only be yes.They're also what you get when you ask Matsui to design a luxury interior....
On that evidence, yes.
and:
Yes again.
That's pretty horrific, too.
That's really bad.
I'm sure the SC is just as bad - just to add to the 'appeal', the exterior is bloody awful, too.
I really can't see what's wrong with those interiors. Much nicer than the plain jane black with red lights BMW standard....LuS1fer said:
The X-Type was perceived more as a cut-price Jag than an upmarket Mondeo and there's the problem, the Mondeo did everything just as well for less money and it wasn't a "proper" Jag.
Late model V6 AWD petrols are very good, though.So long as you don't buy something in pikey spec. with cloth seats and manual box.
i think the point with Lexus' interiors is that they have to win over the customer with equipment. Its there, you can see it, you have a basket of buttons. (Not dissimiliar to the Mercedes interior pictured.
However, although the BMW interior (e46/e90? hard to tell) looks neat and uncluttered, it also looks spartan. It is certainly a bit bland.
However, although the BMW interior (e46/e90? hard to tell) looks neat and uncluttered, it also looks spartan. It is certainly a bit bland.
I wouldn't say Mercedes make nice interiors these days, and BMWs only look OK in better specced cars - ES and SE spec. are generally dire and very spartan.
Audi have it spot on, IMHO, and obviously I love Alfa interiors.
The problem with Lexus interiors is that they do have an air of 'Currys' about them, and there are far too many similarities between a Lexus interior and that of an Auris / Prius / Avensis. In fact, the navigation units appear to be pretty much lifted straight from the Prius...
Do they still have nasty '1970s radio alarm' style clocks?
ETA: Yes, on the above evidence, they do. Classy.
Audi have it spot on, IMHO, and obviously I love Alfa interiors.
The problem with Lexus interiors is that they do have an air of 'Currys' about them, and there are far too many similarities between a Lexus interior and that of an Auris / Prius / Avensis. In fact, the navigation units appear to be pretty much lifted straight from the Prius...
Do they still have nasty '1970s radio alarm' style clocks?
ETA: Yes, on the above evidence, they do. Classy.
Edited by Alfa_75_Steve on Monday 3rd August 22:36
Lexus is to Toyota, what Acura is to Honda, and Infiniti is to Nissan.
They are names to sell to people who see the "owner" as inferior Japanese mass produced grey crap.
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig" (Barack Obama. 2008)
In the US, you have premier own brands: Lincoln (Ford) and Cadillac (GM)
Compared to what we're used to in terms of Luxory (RR, Bentley, etc..) they are Morris Marina's with a bit of veneer.
Though saying that, Caddy has really picked up it's game, the CTS-V is pretty damn awesome (try searching You Tube for the CTS-V's lap of the 'Ring)
Could Ford make a premium brand car. Their designers could come up with it, but by the time the committee's and bean counters have finished, it'll be a Mk1 Consul Granada with an Essex V6, and vinyl seats. They don't have the bottle to produce a world market luxury model.
Volvo is NOT a luxury brand, regardless of what some Volvo drivers seem to think. I own a V70 T5, and it's not luxury at all. It's not bad, but it's a sea of grey plastic, quite comfortable, but not as good as my ol' 3.0L Senator, handles pretty well for a barge, goes like greased weasel s
t, in general does what it says on the tin. It's a Ford, build in the DAF factory in Belgium!
Ford would need to start from scratch, and stand at a distance so nobody really knows it's them (or no one will buy them!)
I know, let's call it an Edsel.
Whoops...
They are names to sell to people who see the "owner" as inferior Japanese mass produced grey crap.
"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig" (Barack Obama. 2008)
In the US, you have premier own brands: Lincoln (Ford) and Cadillac (GM)
Compared to what we're used to in terms of Luxory (RR, Bentley, etc..) they are Morris Marina's with a bit of veneer.
Though saying that, Caddy has really picked up it's game, the CTS-V is pretty damn awesome (try searching You Tube for the CTS-V's lap of the 'Ring)
Could Ford make a premium brand car. Their designers could come up with it, but by the time the committee's and bean counters have finished, it'll be a Mk1 Consul Granada with an Essex V6, and vinyl seats. They don't have the bottle to produce a world market luxury model.
Volvo is NOT a luxury brand, regardless of what some Volvo drivers seem to think. I own a V70 T5, and it's not luxury at all. It's not bad, but it's a sea of grey plastic, quite comfortable, but not as good as my ol' 3.0L Senator, handles pretty well for a barge, goes like greased weasel s
t, in general does what it says on the tin. It's a Ford, build in the DAF factory in Belgium!Ford would need to start from scratch, and stand at a distance so nobody really knows it's them (or no one will buy them!)
I know, let's call it an Edsel.
Whoops...
thunderbelmont said:
Volvo is NOT a luxury brand, regardless of what some Volvo drivers seem to think. I own a V70 T5, and it's not luxury at all. It's not bad, but it's a sea of grey plastic, quite comfortable, but not as good as my ol' 3.0L Senator, handles pretty well for a barge, goes like greased weasel st, in general does what it says on the tin. It's a Ford, build in the DAF factory in Belgium!
Have you looked at the current shape S80? - I know it's technically 'wrong wheel drive' for a big luxobarge, but it's definitely a luxury car.t, in general does what it says on the tin. It's a Ford, build in the DAF factory in Belgium!
Every toy in the book, but still remains classy and understated.
They even use proper marine-type plywood in some of the interiors, rather than glossy wood effect plastic.
One of the most stunning interiors I've ever sat in - and incredible build quality, too.
Volvo seem to have interiors nailed these days. Although even the old S60 wasn't too bad.
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