RE: KTM X-Bow Production Halted
Discussion
Mrs Muttleysnoop said:
Noger said:
Who's mum are you ?
Just someone who who has had very fast pax laps on track in an X Bow which overtook the Caterhams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who cares if you overtook a Caterham ? They are not the fastest cars in the world, nobody with a Caterham suggests they are.
Quite fast for something that was designed in a shed over 50 years ago. And quite a giggle.
But "quite fast", even "bloody fast", and "the fastest thing ever".....are not the same thing.
Even the aforementioned Levante, which is certainly the fastest accelerating car I have ever been in, and nearly made me soil myself, isn't the fastest thing ever.
ewenm said:
Mrs Muttleysnoop said:
Noger said:
Who's mum are you ?
Just someone who who has had very fast pax laps on track in an X Bow which overtook the Caterhams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Caterhams are awesome. I'd love an R500 with the Quaife box.
And the Caparo is just sensational. Can you imagine pulling 4g round Copse then driving home sedately on the M1?!?
If I'm allowed one GT car it would have to be a Gumpert Apollo. Not a great looker but dynamics from another (more advanced) planet.
A Radical SR8 would be the icing on the cake. Is it true that driving one is like watching Sky+ on 30x mode?
And the Caparo is just sensational. Can you imagine pulling 4g round Copse then driving home sedately on the M1?!?
If I'm allowed one GT car it would have to be a Gumpert Apollo. Not a great looker but dynamics from another (more advanced) planet.
A Radical SR8 would be the icing on the cake. Is it true that driving one is like watching Sky+ on 30x mode?
Edited by ScottL on Thursday 3rd September 22:11
I saw a purple Caparo on the opposite carriageway of the road last week, and the driver was not exactly holding it back. The sound it made was similar to an F1 car.
It was an `event' and I would say the same about an Xbow, when you see one on the road you tend to notice it, and not forget it.
Not sure I would have one, even if I could afford it, but we need cars like this to be around.
It was an `event' and I would say the same about an Xbow, when you see one on the road you tend to notice it, and not forget it.
Not sure I would have one, even if I could afford it, but we need cars like this to be around.
vanilladan said:
ewenm said:
Mrs Muttleysnoop said:
Noger said:
Who's mum are you ?
Just someone who who has had very fast pax laps on track in an X Bow which overtook the Caterhams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Although you can be surprised by stripped out hatchbacks, as anyone who has seen Maurice Reeves Mk 1 Golf in action will tell you !
I think the problem here is also as in the bike world (so extra ironic KTM don't seem to have got this).....the Jap bikes are so much better engineered and reliable than a Harley, but for many bikers (and all of the non biking public) a Harley is THE bike.
It has, whatever you say, an image and heritage. Soul, if you like.
KTM are suffering the same customer imagery. Lotus have soul, they also produce marvellous, fun cars at a far lower price. It is also not at all certain the KTM out performs a Lotus.
The biggest mistake KTM made was believing being an unknown (to most) bike manufacturer AND having the audacity to ask (much) more for their car than a Lotus, would set them off into competitive business.
If you are going to take Lotus, Caterham on, you simply must price the cars so the public can start buying and putting the word around. Asking a Brit to try an unknown car from an unknown factory at an exorbitant price.......with gems by Lotus et al available 'off the shelf'....?????
Weird marketing ploy.
It has, whatever you say, an image and heritage. Soul, if you like.
KTM are suffering the same customer imagery. Lotus have soul, they also produce marvellous, fun cars at a far lower price. It is also not at all certain the KTM out performs a Lotus.
The biggest mistake KTM made was believing being an unknown (to most) bike manufacturer AND having the audacity to ask (much) more for their car than a Lotus, would set them off into competitive business.
If you are going to take Lotus, Caterham on, you simply must price the cars so the public can start buying and putting the word around. Asking a Brit to try an unknown car from an unknown factory at an exorbitant price.......with gems by Lotus et al available 'off the shelf'....?????
Weird marketing ploy.
jondude just made more sense than most of the last 5 pages worth of willy waving posts.
The XBow has been put on ice because they haven't sold enough. End of. As to the reasons why they haven't sold enough, well the recession hasn't helped, but fundamentally the car isn't quick enough out of the box when placed against comparably priced competitors. I've looked very closely at the car on a number of occasions, as I have all the competition, and it just doesn't do the business I'm afraid. And don't give me the "you can have it tuned" talk - I don't expect to spend £45k on a track car and then have to take it somewhere else to get it to go as fast as it should have done straight from the manufacturer.
And, as jondude says, the car doesn't have a pedigree in the car world. Yes they make decent bikes (I've owned some of them) but in cars they have none, and £45k as a starting price is a big leap of faith. I hope they come back and make more and fettle the car so that it's a realistic competitor. Cars like the XBow are good to have around, as they push the other manufacturers, and bring a new dimension to the track market. It's just not quite right, not yet.
The XBow has been put on ice because they haven't sold enough. End of. As to the reasons why they haven't sold enough, well the recession hasn't helped, but fundamentally the car isn't quick enough out of the box when placed against comparably priced competitors. I've looked very closely at the car on a number of occasions, as I have all the competition, and it just doesn't do the business I'm afraid. And don't give me the "you can have it tuned" talk - I don't expect to spend £45k on a track car and then have to take it somewhere else to get it to go as fast as it should have done straight from the manufacturer.
And, as jondude says, the car doesn't have a pedigree in the car world. Yes they make decent bikes (I've owned some of them) but in cars they have none, and £45k as a starting price is a big leap of faith. I hope they come back and make more and fettle the car so that it's a realistic competitor. Cars like the XBow are good to have around, as they push the other manufacturers, and bring a new dimension to the track market. It's just not quite right, not yet.
vanilladan said:
ewenm said:
Mrs Muttleysnoop said:
Noger said:
Who's mum are you ?
Just someone who who has had very fast pax laps on track in an X Bow which overtook the Caterhams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haven't schools gone back now? I could almost hear the door slamming after that post! Someone who definitely didn't get the point about trackday stories (and conveniently trimmed that bit from the quote)
Should I also comment that in the Caterham I've overtaken loads of 911s on trackdays too? Or would that make it far too confusing for you?
Edited by ewenm on Friday 4th September 08:54
Noger said:
Mrs Muttleysnoop said:
Noger said:
Who's mum are you ?
Just someone who who has had very fast pax laps on track in an X Bow which overtook the Caterhams !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who cares if you overtook a Caterham ? They are not the fastest cars in the world, nobody with a Caterham suggests they are.
Quite fast for something that was designed in a shed over 50 years ago. And quite a giggle.
But "quite fast", even "bloody fast", and "the fastest thing ever".....are not the same thing.
Even the aforementioned Levante, which is certainly the fastest accelerating car I have ever been in, and nearly made me soil myself, isn't the fastest thing ever.
it's not quite that straight forward. Ktm didn't mean the car to cost as much as it is. If you revert back to the old euro rate of 1.5 to the pound, then instead of the car costing 49995 it would cost under 37k. Obviously, the likes of lotus, caterham and ariel wouldn't be quite as affected with all their cars built in Britain.
So if it weren't for this drastic exchange rate change, this post may have never existed...
So if it weren't for this drastic exchange rate change, this post may have never existed...
jondude said:
I think the problem here is also as in the bike world (so extra ironic KTM don't seem to have got this).....the Jap bikes are so much better engineered and reliable than a Harley, but for many bikers (and all of the non biking public) a Harley is THE bike.
It has, whatever you say, an image and heritage. Soul, if you like.
KTM are suffering the same customer imagery. Lotus have soul, they also produce marvellous, fun cars at a far lower price. It is also not at all certain the KTM out performs a Lotus.
The biggest mistake KTM made was believing being an unknown (to most) bike manufacturer AND having the audacity to ask (much) more for their car than a Lotus, would set them off into competitive business.
If you are going to take Lotus, Caterham on, you simply must price the cars so the public can start buying and putting the word around. Asking a Brit to try an unknown car from an unknown factory at an exorbitant price.......with gems by Lotus et al available 'off the shelf'....?????
Weird marketing ploy.
It has, whatever you say, an image and heritage. Soul, if you like.
KTM are suffering the same customer imagery. Lotus have soul, they also produce marvellous, fun cars at a far lower price. It is also not at all certain the KTM out performs a Lotus.
The biggest mistake KTM made was believing being an unknown (to most) bike manufacturer AND having the audacity to ask (much) more for their car than a Lotus, would set them off into competitive business.
If you are going to take Lotus, Caterham on, you simply must price the cars so the public can start buying and putting the word around. Asking a Brit to try an unknown car from an unknown factory at an exorbitant price.......with gems by Lotus et al available 'off the shelf'....?????
Weird marketing ploy.
Oh.
Would any of these be X-Bows overtaking without consent all day at Rockingham on the 12th then?
Inside, outside, in braking and chicane entry?
I guess a phat wallet comes without brains or manners, or concern for others safety or property.
A sign of our FU society I guess.
And the lines were terrible, I still havent seen one driven well.
Would any of these be X-Bows overtaking without consent all day at Rockingham on the 12th then?
Inside, outside, in braking and chicane entry?
I guess a phat wallet comes without brains or manners, or concern for others safety or property.
A sign of our FU society I guess.
And the lines were terrible, I still havent seen one driven well.
Edited by m1bjr on Friday 18th September 15:46
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