Estate Sleepers

[GravelBen]

monthefish said:

For me? no.

The big alloys, bonnet scoop, flared skirts and tinted glass all detract from its 'sleeper' credentials.......

Fair enough - its all factory standard, the scoop is needed for the intercooler etc. Go for the 3.0 H6 Legacy to avoid the scoop, thought its a bit slower.

[300bhp/ton]

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

Great Pretender said:

300bhp/ton said:

A Rover

I might have know that came from you.

Seriously, WTF?

Yeah seriously who think a well built, reliable, affordable good performing car would be a sensible suggestion

I drove a KV6 engined 75. Wouldnt pull your foreskin back. Woeful car, nowhere near enough performance to be called a sleeper.

Then may I respectfully suggest you have simply been driving more cars that are quicker than the average Jo.

Seriously were do you drive race tracks? Most of the cars I see range from 1.0 litre city cars to regular 2.0 litre hatchbacks and saloons. None better about 10 sec 0-60mph.

A V6 anything would be quicker than most of these.

Also please read the op's post!!! They want better mpg than an Impreza but still a large car, aka an estate.

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Your best bet would be a modern diesel (3 litres+) but you probably won't get such a car for £12k at present.

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

[Chris_w666]

OK so its not economical but 30mpg + is very possible. It won't win any races against V8 or V6 German stuff, but it does handle superbly has a very strong 170bhp engine and is very subtle.

A saab 95 Aero Estate would make a great sleeper, or how about:



They may be complete crap but the 2.7 hdi engined version has 205bhp and manages a very healthy set of figures. If you want a sleeper what better way than a fantastic engine in an unloved car.

[Thejimreaper]

Thanks for all the input, some great suggestions. Some I have already considered and others have caught my eye.

I will keep you all posted.

Jim

PS Al, as for your RS2 I can definitly say that fits the bill but if Tom is telling me the truth his struggles to get over 10mpg on a PH hoon!!

[emicen]

300bhp/ton said:

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

Great Pretender said:

300bhp/ton said:

A Rover

I might have know that came from you.

Seriously, WTF?

Yeah seriously who think a well built, reliable, affordable good performing car would be a sensible suggestion

I drove a KV6 engined 75. Wouldnt pull your foreskin back. Woeful car, nowhere near enough performance to be called a sleeper.

Then may I respectfully suggest you have simply been driving more cars that are quicker than the average Jo.

Seriously were do you drive race tracks? Most of the cars I see range from 1.0 litre city cars to regular 2.0 litre hatchbacks and saloons. None better about 10 sec 0-60mph.

A V6 anything would be quicker than most of these.

Also please read the op's post!!! They want better mpg than an Impreza but still a large car, aka an estate.

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Your best bet would be a modern diesel (3 litres+) but you probably won't get such a car for £12k at present.

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

It really wasnt an "incomparison to" style statement, the car was just plain slow.

We took it from Glasgow to Cambridge and back to attend my mates wedding. MPG wise, at a cruise controlled 75mph on the motorway it was only giving mid 30's which is what my old Y-plate 325i would return at 5-10mph more.

Going cross country from scotch corner to the M6 it was pathetic. Overtaking needed a running start even for trucks.

[GravelBen]

300bhp/ton said:

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Not at the same time anyway, but a Legacy GTB will do both those things - 0-60 would be in the mid 5s with a hard launch, and 30-33mpg is easy enough to achieve making reasonable progress on the open road. Being jap imports for you most are still limited to 112mph but thats easily changed, the '98 GTB held the world record for fastest production station wagon(/estate) for a while at around 170mph until the Audi RS6 beat it.

ETA: Based on the PH classifieds one like mine (2002) will set you back around 5k in your money, maybe less.

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 30th September 11:02

[Al Wyn]

How bizzare Jim just reading this thread not realising you were the op and you leave me a message when Dicky C posted earlier nice to know you thought of me and mine...on `that` hoon i was down to 14...as a guide my average mpg including a mix of motorway/town/heavy size 11ing is 18...she has seen 30 on a long run...saying that she offers 0-60 4.8 and a potential 170mph so not too bad for an old Audi plus shes in budget.

[300bhp/ton]

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

Great Pretender said:

300bhp/ton said:

A Rover

I might have know that came from you.

Seriously, WTF?

Yeah seriously who think a well built, reliable, affordable good performing car would be a sensible suggestion

I drove a KV6 engined 75. Wouldnt pull your foreskin back. Woeful car, nowhere near enough performance to be called a sleeper.

Then may I respectfully suggest you have simply been driving more cars that are quicker than the average Jo.

Seriously were do you drive race tracks? Most of the cars I see range from 1.0 litre city cars to regular 2.0 litre hatchbacks and saloons. None better about 10 sec 0-60mph.

A V6 anything would be quicker than most of these.

Also please read the op's post!!! They want better mpg than an Impreza but still a large car, aka an estate.

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Your best bet would be a modern diesel (3 litres+) but you probably won't get such a car for £12k at present.

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

It really wasnt an "incomparison to" style statement, the car was just plain slow.

We took it from Glasgow to Cambridge and back to attend my mates wedding. MPG wise, at a cruise controlled 75mph on the motorway it was only giving mid 30's which is what my old Y-plate 325i would return at 5-10mph more.

Going cross country from scotch corner to the M6 it was pathetic. Overtaking needed a running start even for trucks.

sounds more like there was something wrong with it, are you sure it was a 2.5 and not a 2.0 V6?

My 19 year old diesel Discovery can over take lorries without a "running start".

Either that or it was the driver.

Seriously how many regular hatches and saloons, let along lorries are sub 9 sec 0-60mph cars? A 2.0 litre Focus or Astra isn't. A MINI Cooper isn't.

I'm seriously not trying to make these out to be something they are not. But you seem to be overly hard on compared to what the rest of the market achieves within the same laws of physics

[Roman]

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

Great Pretender said:

300bhp/ton said:

A Rover

I might have know that came from you.

Seriously, WTF?

Yeah seriously who think a well built, reliable, affordable good performing car would be a sensible suggestion

I drove a KV6 engined 75. Wouldnt pull your foreskin back. Woeful car, nowhere near enough performance to be called a sleeper.

Then may I respectfully suggest you have simply been driving more cars that are quicker than the average Jo.

Seriously were do you drive race tracks? Most of the cars I see range from 1.0 litre city cars to regular 2.0 litre hatchbacks and saloons. None better about 10 sec 0-60mph.

A V6 anything would be quicker than most of these.

Also please read the op's post!!! They want better mpg than an Impreza but still a large car, aka an estate.

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Your best bet would be a modern diesel (3 litres+) but you probably won't get such a car for £12k at present.

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

It really wasnt an "incomparison to" style statement, the car was just plain slow.

We took it from Glasgow to Cambridge and back to attend my mates wedding. MPG wise, at a cruise controlled 75mph on the motorway it was only giving mid 30's which is what my old Y-plate 325i would return at 5-10mph more.

Going cross country from scotch corner to the M6 it was pathetic. Overtaking needed a running start even for trucks.

Which model was this?

My 190 is pretty evenly matched to my friends E46 325Ci.

[Fordo]

The rover 75 is a nice enough car, but it'll probably bore you to tears. My old man has one- its a lovely place to be in, engine is silky smooth, so quiet inside. For the money, its a great luxobarge. But for me, not enough fun for the mpg it gets. Still, horses for courses. its great for my old man, he wants a wafto-matic big car.

the 75 is sin ugly too....


Ive been in a similar position to the OP. I need an estate, but want something a bit fun, but also dont want crippling fuel bills. Not an easy thing to balance.

My input:

Option A - Go Diesel- something like a bmw 330 diesel touring. Great all round cars, and quite fun, despite being powered by the devils fuel

Option B - buy cheaper and spend the rest on fuel - legacy! They seem great fun for the money.

Option C - Buy something you really want (something with a V8...) get it lpg converted, and keep it long enough to save lots of dough.


For ages ive been looking for something like a bmw 540i touring thats lpg converted, or any other fun petrol estate thats been converted- but i can never find the right car. Most 2nd hand lpg cars have done silly mileage too

So im going to do one of the above options - just depends what i find in the classifieds...

hth

[300bhp/ton]

GravelBen said:

300bhp/ton said:

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Not at the same time anyway, but a Legacy GTB will do both those things - 0-60 would be in the mid 5s with a hard launch, and 30-33mpg is easy enough to achieve making reasonable progress on the open road. Being jap imports for you most are still limited to 112mph but thats easily changed, the '98 GTB held the world record for fastest production station wagon(/estate) for a while at around 170mph until the Audi RS6 beat it.

ETA: Based on the PH classifieds one like mine (2002) will set you back around 5k in your money, maybe less.

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 30th September 11:02

I like the Legacy, I just find it hard to believe it is really as good as you say, when Subaru themselves can't get the Impreza any real amount faster, while being smaller an lighter, with a smaller engine yet still worse economy.

I believe on a run the mpg should be ok so long as you keep the speed to sensible levels. Hell a V8 Mustang will do nearly 30mpg on the motorway so I have no problem believing that.

But to "average" 33mpg while driving it hardish I find a bit more difficult.

Doing a quick Google the lowest mpg I saw listed was 18mpg. But a common average of 22-25mpg seemed common.

An impressive car no doubt

[v8will]

Really can't knock the old Volvo - my 850 T5 cost me 800 quid and came with FSH and a 300 quid Rica 304 remap which by the seat of my pants feels like 260 - 280 BHP. I threw in 500 quids worth of Koni and Eibach suspension and some new brakes.

I cannot stress the satisfaction of 'doing' a cheeky gobste in a 968 Porsche whilst carrying a set of bedroom drawers (was moving house!) in the rather large boot.

Oh and I can park the old bus anywhere and no one looks twice at it

[Wharfer]

330d/530d touring meets all of the OP's criteria

Mk3 Mondeo V6 estate would be a good cheap option if you prefer petrol to diesel.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1121476.htm

[emicen]

300bhp/ton said:

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

emicen said:

300bhp/ton said:

Great Pretender said:

300bhp/ton said:

A Rover

I might have know that came from you.

Seriously, WTF?

Yeah seriously who think a well built, reliable, affordable good performing car would be a sensible suggestion

I drove a KV6 engined 75. Wouldnt pull your foreskin back. Woeful car, nowhere near enough performance to be called a sleeper.

Then may I respectfully suggest you have simply been driving more cars that are quicker than the average Jo.

Seriously were do you drive race tracks? Most of the cars I see range from 1.0 litre city cars to regular 2.0 litre hatchbacks and saloons. None better about 10 sec 0-60mph.

A V6 anything would be quicker than most of these.

Also please read the op's post!!! They want better mpg than an Impreza but still a large car, aka an estate.

You simply ain't gonna get 30mpg+ and 5 sec 0-60mph from such a big car.

Your best bet would be a modern diesel (3 litres+) but you probably won't get such a car for £12k at present.

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

It really wasnt an "incomparison to" style statement, the car was just plain slow.

We took it from Glasgow to Cambridge and back to attend my mates wedding. MPG wise, at a cruise controlled 75mph on the motorway it was only giving mid 30's which is what my old Y-plate 325i would return at 5-10mph more.

Going cross country from scotch corner to the M6 it was pathetic. Overtaking needed a running start even for trucks.

sounds more like there was something wrong with it, are you sure it was a 2.5 and not a 2.0 V6?

My 19 year old diesel Discovery can over take lorries without a "running start".

Either that or it was the driver.

Seriously how many regular hatches and saloons, let along lorries are sub 9 sec 0-60mph cars? A 2.0 litre Focus or Astra isn't. A MINI Cooper isn't.

I'm seriously not trying to make these out to be something they are not. But you seem to be overly hard on compared to what the rest of the market achieves within the same laws of physics

I'm being as harsh as the car deserves imho. It was right up there with the dullest, most boring drives of my life.

It seriously wouldnt get a look in even compared to things like 1.6 Astra hire cars I've had use of.

[GravelBen]

300bhp/ton said:

I like the Legacy, I just find it hard to believe it is really as good as you say, when Subaru themselves can't get the Impreza any real amount faster, while being smaller an lighter, with a smaller engine yet still worse economy.

There are a few factors there - an Impreza with the same power is quicker at lower speeds due to less weight (though at 1500kg there is very little between a GTB and a newage STI) and shorter gearing, its the same shorter gearing that hurts its cruising fuel economy. The Legacy actually has slipperier aero AFAIK, and the twin-turbo lump gives decent torque from under 2000rpm so you don't have to work it as hard at low revs.

300bhp/ton said:

I believe on a run the mpg should be ok so long as you keep the speed to sensible levels. Hell a V8 Mustang will do nearly 30mpg on the motorway so I have no problem believing that.

But to "average" 33mpg while driving it hardish I find a bit more difficult.

Doing a quick Google the lowest mpg I saw listed was 18mpg. But a common average of 22-25mpg seemed common.

An impressive car no doubt

That 30-33 is open road rather than overall average, In mixed use I get around 26-27mpg on 98, or around 10% worse on 95. Gentler drivers have seen better economy than me.

'On a run' for me may be different to you as well - nearest motorway is 2hrs away so not much of that, probably more like UK A and B roads - one lane each way with plenty of hills and corners. Average cruising speeds perhaps a bit lower than your motorway speeds though at 60-75mph (NZ plod are rather singleminded when it comes to speed) but with plenty of faster overtaking. 60-65mph cruise would probably see the 33+mpg, 75mph more like 30mpg. On B-road blasts it can still drink as quickly as anything else with 280bhp though!

It depends which Legacy you're seeing figures for on google too, the gen2 is a bit thirstier than my gen3 and the gen1 guzzles fuel like its going out of fashion.

That explain things any better?

Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 30th September 11:52

[die fahrt]

BMW 330/530 touring. You get decent mpg, decent performance, and a reliable silky smooth straight six, with no headgasket problems or cambelt to worry about.
Yeah I'm often suggesting the 330, but that's because 8 out of 10 PHers seem to be looking for fun car without crippling MPG.

[BillyB]

300bhp/ton said:

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

If we ignore the RWD criterion, the Octavia vRS will better those figures.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

[Chris_w666]

BillyB said:

300bhp/ton said:

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

If we ignore the RWD criterion, the Octavia vRS will better those figures.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

Have a look at the figures for the 407 I posted. I genuinely know sod all about how they drive but the engine is great.

[Andrew_M]

Here you go:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...

530d SE touring, 218hp, 369lb/ft

0-60 = 7.2
0-100 = 19.4
1/4 mile = 15.7 @ 90mph
50-70 = 4.2
60-80 = 5.0
VMAX = 151
MPG = 39.2

Cost of diesel over 12k miles @39.2mpg = £1485.00 / annum
Cost of petrol over 12k miles @25mpg = £2304.00 / annum

Not a bad option IMO.

Edited by Andrew_M on Wednesday 30th September 12:29

[BillyB]

Chris_w666 said:

BillyB said:

300bhp/ton said:

Or to put it another way, what other estate of this size/mpg can manage 0-60mph in 8.2 sec with a top speed of 137mph?

If we ignore the RWD criterion, the Octavia vRS will better those figures.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/summary.aspx?m...

Have a look at the figures for the 407 I posted. I genuinely know sod all about how they drive but the engine is great.

According to the stats on Parkers, the 407 2.7 Hdi is slower 0-60 (8.5 vs 7.7) and has worse mpg (33 vs 35) than the vRS, plus it is a diesel whereas the vRS is petrol. Or am I missing something?

ETA I looked at the '01-'05 model for the above stats.

ETA (again) the current model is 7.1 secs to 60 and does 37mpg so it is all goodness
(although I still ended up getting a E39 530i Sport instead!)

Edited by BillyB on Wednesday 30th September 12:33

Edited by BillyB on Wednesday 30th September 12:36