Zonda Replica

[koolchris99]

Papa Hotel said:

koolchris99 said:

i think its brilliant, cant wait to see it finished.

i doubt hell get done for breach, as long as there are 7 things different its ok legally, and im sure its not a 100% replica.

1. Make it a couple of centimentres longer or shorter.
2. Make it a few millimetres wider or narrower.
3. Make it a few millimetres taller or lower.
4. Make the wheelbase a few millimetres longer or shorter.
5. Don't put an OEM exhaust on it.
6. Don't put an OEM gearknob in it.
7. Don't put OEM seats in it.

And that would make it ok? What utter bks.

i dont know how car patents work, but i presume it will be for each seperate part a different filing. so each part will have to have 7 differences

[Colin 1985]

How do people make Ferrari replicas without infringing copyrights? Is it that Ferrari could challenge them but just don't care?

[The Riddler]

Colin 1985 said:

How do people make Ferrari replicas without infringing copyrights? Is it that Ferrari could challenge them but just don't care?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/27/outraged-italia...

Edit to fix fudged link.

Edited by The Riddler on Wednesday 5th May 05:25

[julian64]

Forbes82 said:

julian64 said:

FraserLFA said:

Beefmeister said:

stigmundfreud said:

Is this school? Can you copyright a cars appearance?

Yes.

Yes you can.

And they do. All of them.

This car is clearly a copyright breach, and as such I have emailed this link to Pagani themselves.

You just can't do this. It's against the law, plain and simple.

What makes me laugh about this attitude is this thread


http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...


The only difference between this and the Zonda replica is that the Zonda replica is perhaps more genuine to the original idea of the car.

I don't see people reporting the Sagaris for putting an engine in thats not supposed to be there just several pats on the back.

On the assumption that we are on a driving enthusiast website I think both would be stunning achievements and I would very much like to test drive both of them.

I find it funny that one guy gets so upset about a kit car with a kit car engine infringing someones rights, and suggestively wouldn't care if the OP got a real Zonda and junked its engine for an LS cos it'd still be an original with no infringement.

Madness.

You don't see the difference between this guy knocking up fake zondas, and someone buying a real TVR and replacing the engine?

Really you don't see the difference?

As a car and driving enthusiast i like to see original ideas, and the companys that make these original ideas NOT getting screwed by someone cheapening the product with these crap copys. Taking a TVR and dropping a different engine into it is so far removed from this topic i'm still struggling to see how you think they are the same thing.

Some cars are exciting because they are exotic and rare, would you not be annoyed as a zonda owner if every chav around the country started dropping a zonda bodykit onto thier fiestas?

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda. Do you think someone who is in the market for a Zonda is going to buy his creation instead.

So on the basis he's not hitting Zonda financially in the slightest, the only argument you have is that in some way copying Zonda cheapens the exclusivity of the brand. Rather like when paris fachion week is on and within five minutes Marks and Spencer have incorporated the fashion styles into their bargain basement cothing range. Not exactly untrodden ground then?

Finally I have no problem with chavs dropping Zonda bodykits on their fiestas. Its 1000x times better than looking at Fiestas and gives me the impression that chav do more than pick out the latest trainers and shell suits. The reason Chavs don't have Zondas is that they can't afford them. Taking a design and pricing it so that you achieve your exclusivity purely by price is the sort of gucci stupidiy we could do with less of in this world.

As to the designer I would say that designing a Zonda is a showcase for your talent, not a lifetime mealticket. Spend less time protecting your golden egg and more time showing the world where you can lead it in terms of design.

[hunt_the_fox]

I read this thread last night and have returned to it this morning- very interesting project, I doubt it will have any effect on the real manufacturer at all. What does slightly grate on me is the holier than thou attitude of some people, I mean OK it's a copy but it is not like this fella is starting a prduction line- he specifically stated it is a one off, so emailing the thread to Pagani... seriously? It's nice to know that PH is policed so effectively that such project gets shopped to the company asap?! If you don't like it don't read the thread, but to actually grass someone up seems so puerile.

[mat205125]

julian64 said:

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda.

That's a very interesting point, and the actual answer could be argued to be a potentially ruinous amount.

The reason that companies like Ferrari get so protective over their designs is to protect the value of their brands, their prestige, and their customers. A smoking old MR2 with a load of GRP glued to it has never directly lost Ferrari a sale of a car as the driver of the Toyota was never in the market place for a real Ferrari anyway. As the number of such "recreations" grows, however, the proportion of genuine cars falls to the point where people assume that any time they see one, its a fake.

A large proportion of Ferrari's (keeping the example going, however applicable to Pagani to a degree) core business isn't to PH driving enthusiasts, rather to rich "celebrities" that want to appear to be flash, show off, and be seen in the spoils of their sporting/rapping gifts. This core customer will go elsewhere if a brand is cheapened by every urban "freelance chemist" and restauranteur pimping round in facimilies that are "close enough" in the drunken eyes of the local talent, and will shop elsewhere.

I've no doubt that Ferrari would like to regain a degree of control over the types that buy its products, however to be able to stand alone as a profitable company in the market place, a degree of pride has to be swallowed (and a hell of a lot of baseball caps brought in from Vietnamease sweat shops! )

[julian64]

mat205125 said:

julian64 said:

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda.

That's a very interesting point, and the actual answer could be argued to be a potentially ruinous amount.

The reason that companies like Ferrari get so protective over their designs is to protect the value of their brands, their prestige, and their customers. A smoking old MR2 with a load of GRP glued to it has never directly lost Ferrari a sale of a car as the driver of the Toyota was never in the market place for a real Ferrari anyway. As the number of such "recreations" grows, however, the proportion of genuine cars falls to the point where people assume that any time they see one, its a fake.

A large proportion of Ferrari's (keeping the example going, however applicable to Pagani to a degree) core business isn't to PH driving enthusiasts, rather to rich "celebrities" that want to appear to be flash, show off, and be seen in the spoils of their sporting/rapping gifts. This core customer will go elsewhere if a brand is cheapened by every urban "freelance chemist" and restauranteur pimping round in facimilies that are "close enough" in the drunken eyes of the local talent, and will shop elsewhere.

I've no doubt that Ferrari would like to regain a degree of control over the types that buy its products, however to be able to stand alone as a profitable company in the market place, a degree of pride has to be swallowed (and a hell of a lot of baseball caps brought in from Vietnamease sweat shops! )

I understand, but don't agree. Being a true ferrari in a sea of wannabe fakes is the ultimate goal of the sort of person you are describing. They are trying to sit on the pinnacle of desire and those around are demonstrating that they would want to be in exactly the same position but can't afford it. Exactly what your average celebrity wants.

Its one thing to be in your fiesta and yell 'flash bd' at a passing ferrari cos it gives you some sort of inverted street cred with your mates I guess.

You can't very well yell 'flash bd' at a ferrari if you are in a replica paying homage to the original, can you?

[jeebus]

hunt_the_fox said:

I read this thread last night and have returned to it this morning- very interesting project, I doubt it will have any effect on the real manufacturer at all. What does slightly grate on me is the holier than thou attitude of some people, I mean OK it's a copy but it is not like this fella is starting a prduction line- he specifically stated it is a one off, so emailing the thread to Pagani... seriously? It's nice to know that PH is policed so effectively that such project gets shopped to the company asap?! If you don't like it don't read the thread, but to actually grass someone up seems so puerile.

Well said. E mailing zonda Do you try to stop a policeman in the street when you see a mr2/ferrari replica, quick quick officer they are stealing from ferrari.

[mat205125]

jeebus said:

hunt_the_fox said:

I read this thread last night and have returned to it this morning- very interesting project, I doubt it will have any effect on the real manufacturer at all. What does slightly grate on me is the holier than thou attitude of some people, I mean OK it's a copy but it is not like this fella is starting a prduction line- he specifically stated it is a one off, so emailing the thread to Pagani... seriously? It's nice to know that PH is policed so effectively that such project gets shopped to the company asap?! If you don't like it don't read the thread, but to actually grass someone up seems so puerile.

Well said. E mailing zonda Do you try to stop a policeman in the street when you see a mr2/ferrari replica, quick quick officer they are stealing from ferrari.

Are the rumours of this kind of thing happening in Italy true?

Is an internet forum the best place to ask for a definitive asnswer to a question?

[StinkyBoy]

I don't think this would impact on Pagani Zonda at all...

A manufacture that makes £1m+ cars will always stay in business. Replica or no replica..

[The Riddler]

mat205125 said:

jeebus said:

hunt_the_fox said:

I read this thread last night and have returned to it this morning- very interesting project, I doubt it will have any effect on the real manufacturer at all. What does slightly grate on me is the holier than thou attitude of some people, I mean OK it's a copy but it is not like this fella is starting a prduction line- he specifically stated it is a one off, so emailing the thread to Pagani... seriously? It's nice to know that PH is policed so effectively that such project gets shopped to the company asap?! If you don't like it don't read the thread, but to actually grass someone up seems so puerile.

Well said. E mailing zonda Do you try to stop a policeman in the street when you see a mr2/ferrari replica, quick quick officer they are stealing from ferrari.

Are the rumours of this kind of thing happening in Italy true?

Is an internet forum the best place to ask for a definitive asnswer to a question?

Check out the link i posted earlier today..

Apparently was a UK registered MR2/355 Seized and crushed by Italian police.

[MDahmen]

as he did not offer any cars for sale here (at least as far as I can tell), I think some of the reactions (like informing Pagani) are a bit over the top.

[GSP]

julian64 said:

mat205125 said:

julian64 said:

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda.

That's a very interesting point, and the actual answer could be argued to be a potentially ruinous amount.

The reason that companies like Ferrari get so protective over their designs is to protect the value of their brands, their prestige, and their customers. A smoking old MR2 with a load of GRP glued to it has never directly lost Ferrari a sale of a car as the driver of the Toyota was never in the market place for a real Ferrari anyway. As the number of such "recreations" grows, however, the proportion of genuine cars falls to the point where people assume that any time they see one, its a fake.

A large proportion of Ferrari's (keeping the example going, however applicable to Pagani to a degree) core business isn't to PH driving enthusiasts, rather to rich "celebrities" that want to appear to be flash, show off, and be seen in the spoils of their sporting/rapping gifts. This core customer will go elsewhere if a brand is cheapened by every urban "freelance chemist" and restauranteur pimping round in facimilies that are "close enough" in the drunken eyes of the local talent, and will shop elsewhere.

I've no doubt that Ferrari would like to regain a degree of control over the types that buy its products, however to be able to stand alone as a profitable company in the market place, a degree of pride has to be swallowed (and a hell of a lot of baseball caps brought in from Vietnamease sweat shops! )

I understand, but don't agree. Being a true ferrari in a sea of wannabe fakes is the ultimate goal of the sort of person you are describing. They are trying to sit on the pinnacle of desire and those around are demonstrating that they would want to be in exactly the same position but can't afford it. Exactly what your average celebrity wants.

Its one thing to be in your fiesta and yell 'flash bd' at a passing ferrari cos it gives you some sort of inverted street cred with your mates I guess.

You can't very well yell 'flash bd' at a ferrari if you are in a replica paying homage to the original, can you?

I can see this point of view... the brand becomes damaged to a certain extent.

Some 355 replicas externally are resonably good. A lot are terrible.

But I presume most are replicas until I hear the engine. There even seems to be a lot of 360 repllicas around here, but they stand out a mile.

[Streetrod]

mat205125 said:

julian64 said:

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda.

That's a very interesting point, and the actual answer could be argued to be a potentially ruinous amount.

The reason that companies like Ferrari get so protective over their designs is to protect the value of their brands, their prestige, and their customers. A smoking old MR2 with a load of GRP glued to it has never directly lost Ferrari a sale of a car as the driver of the Toyota was never in the market place for a real Ferrari anyway. As the number of such "recreations" grows, however, the proportion of genuine cars falls to the point where people assume that any time they see one, its a fake.

A large proportion of Ferrari's (keeping the example going, however applicable to Pagani to a degree) core business isn't to PH driving enthusiasts, rather to rich "celebrities" that want to appear to be flash, show off, and be seen in the spoils of their sporting/rapping gifts. This core customer will go elsewhere if a brand is cheapened by every urban "freelance chemist" and restauranteur pimping round in facimilies that are "close enough" in the drunken eyes of the local talent, and will shop elsewhere.

I've no doubt that Ferrari would like to regain a degree of control over the types that buy its products, however to be able to stand alone as a profitable company in the market place, a degree of pride has to be swallowed (and a hell of a lot of baseball caps brought in from Vietnamease sweat shops! )

What he said. Look at the Cobra example, how many have seen a real one and thought, "That is a nice replica." Ok this is a slightly extreme example but hopefully you see where I am going with this.

And to add, this is theft plain and simple.

What really gets me is that this guy has shown a huge amount of skill in getting to this point. Why not channel that skill into an original design. OK, nick design clues if you have too but an exact copy now come on.

I wonder where he will go next. If this is just a one off he is going to incur some major costs. Just think how much he will have to pay to get a screen and side windows moulded. Would he not want to recoup this cost by making other examples?

To all those saying this project is not a bad thing, put yourselves into Mr Pagani's shoes and then tell me you would not be upset

[Forbes82]

julian64 said:

Forbes82 said:

julian64 said:

FraserLFA said:

Beefmeister said:

stigmundfreud said:

Is this school? Can you copyright a cars appearance?

Yes.

Yes you can.

And they do. All of them.

This car is clearly a copyright breach, and as such I have emailed this link to Pagani themselves.

You just can't do this. It's against the law, plain and simple.

What makes me laugh about this attitude is this thread


http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...


The only difference between this and the Zonda replica is that the Zonda replica is perhaps more genuine to the original idea of the car.

I don't see people reporting the Sagaris for putting an engine in thats not supposed to be there just several pats on the back.

On the assumption that we are on a driving enthusiast website I think both would be stunning achievements and I would very much like to test drive both of them.

I find it funny that one guy gets so upset about a kit car with a kit car engine infringing someones rights, and suggestively wouldn't care if the OP got a real Zonda and junked its engine for an LS cos it'd still be an original with no infringement.

Madness.

You don't see the difference between this guy knocking up fake zondas, and someone buying a real TVR and replacing the engine?

Really you don't see the difference?

As a car and driving enthusiast i like to see original ideas, and the companys that make these original ideas NOT getting screwed by someone cheapening the product with these crap copys. Taking a TVR and dropping a different engine into it is so far removed from this topic i'm still struggling to see how you think they are the same thing.

Some cars are exciting because they are exotic and rare, would you not be annoyed as a zonda owner if every chav around the country started dropping a zonda bodykit onto thier fiestas?

Okay lets explain it in more simple terms.

How much money is this guy taking away from Zonda. Do you think someone who is in the market for a Zonda is going to buy his creation instead.

So on the basis he's not hitting Zonda financially in the slightest, the only argument you have is that in some way copying Zonda cheapens the exclusivity of the brand. Rather like when paris fachion week is on and within five minutes Marks and Spencer have incorporated the fashion styles into their bargain basement cothing range. Not exactly untrodden ground then?

Finally I have no problem with chavs dropping Zonda bodykits on their fiestas. Its 1000x times better than looking at Fiestas and gives me the impression that chav do more than pick out the latest trainers and shell suits. The reason Chavs don't have Zondas is that they can't afford them. Taking a design and pricing it so that you achieve your exclusivity purely by price is the sort of gucci stupidiy we could do with less of in this world.

As to the designer I would say that designing a Zonda is a showcase for your talent, not a lifetime mealticket. Spend less time protecting your golden egg and more time showing the world where you can lead it in terms of design.

No, he is not taking money away by competition, he is however cheapening the brand, most people who buy these things do so as a show of wealth and exclusivity, if this guys copy is going to be as identical as he says it will, then its damaging to zonda as a company who lose thier exclusivity, and off putting to customers, who want something exotic, special and difference, which this ceases to be if copies are manufacturered. If these things got popular and it wasn't rare to see a 'fake zonda' i would bet it would put people off ownership, it would certainly make me think twice with all the other similar options in the market. It's certainly not a positive thing for zonda, and it is illegal, so why should it happen just so some guy with no imagination can make a quick buck off of someone elses hard work and design?

I'm no fasion expert but i believe the fashion copies in MnS have numerous differences to ones by Gucci, to us men they may seem small differences but to our Girlfriends and wives they stick out like a sore thumb. They make SIMILAR clothes following the same fashions, they do not (like this car) make 100% EXACT copies. (As far as i know, not an area of expertise for me) If this was a zonda inspiered original creation, then i would have no problem with it, the problem is its trying to fool people into thinking it is a real zonda.

I find your argument about the designer 'protecting his golden egg' ridiculous, should we live in a world where those that work hard and achieve something special have no protection over it? Where is the motivation to lead the world in design when it can be immediately copied?

As i have said before i have no problem with the zonda design influencing this guy, but to copy it directly is not something i see worthy of any praise at all.

[k-ink]

Firstly I'd like to say I think the way ED has started construction is pretty impressive: proper 3D model, CNC model, etc. As a general way to put something into production it looks impressive. As a PH'er I'd also like to see more pictures.

But, I would seriously consider canning the project from a legal perspective. I'd hate to see the car, computer files and milling equipment lost due to legal action! Perhaps re-direct your obvious talents towards another 3D model. As said, some alternative retro / racer / concept style bodies for an existing chassis market like Ultima could be a perfect business plan

[Galsia]

Op, put your skills to good use making an F40 replica please.

[Papa Hotel]

Galsia said:

Op, put your skills to good use making an F40 replica please.

If making a Zonda replica is sacrilege, what the hell is the cheapening of the F40??

[Graham E]

http://i3.tinypic.com/23jgarp.jpg

[Munkeyfeet]

It is 7 things - its how Zara works as well!

How similar are certain makes to the fiesta or the new vauxhall to the scirocco!

everyone copies everyone else

Also everyone harping on at him to make his own design - someone has PAID him to make this.

He probably does make his own stuff too.

Edited by Munkeyfeet on Wednesday 5th May 13:48