RE: Mugen Civic Type-R Confirmed

[vz-r_dave]

SonicHedgeHog said:

Let's ignore the price and the endless list of second hand cars you could buy instead and just focus on what you get for you money.

1. Arguably the most exclusive road car on sale today. I certainly can't think of anything with a smaller production run this side of that special edition Zonda.
2. A world class engine and gearbox in a totally unintimidating bodyshell. This makes it fun to drive fast with none of the visibility/access issues that come with normal trackday stuff like Elises and Caterhams.
3. More than sufficient performance with probably 100% reliability.
4. A unique opportunity to be involved with the factory as it builds your car.
5. I know you can go and buy an M3CSL and upgrade it for the same amount of money, but that doesn't mean it's going to be more fun. I don't mind admitting that there are limits to my driving abilities and 240bhp, LSD, FWD, 9000ish rpm and a hatchback body are probably about it. I am not alone.
6. Finally, a world class chassis. Whether you loathe FWD or not, if you read the EVO review with the Megane you will not be able to dispute how good this car is.

The sort of person that buys this car is not your average hot hatch buyer. They are looking for something different and in a world filled with 2 litre, turbocharged blandness this will be the perfect solution for at least 20 buyers.

Very good points sir

I dont think anyone can argue with them... well some of the more negative bds on here might be able to

[The Venn]

sonichedgehog, if that is your real name, i tip my cap to you.

well i would if i was wearing one... but you get the idea.

well said.

and to the dude who said he's buying one... is it too early to claim shotgun?!

[The Venn]

TheArchitect said:

Evo have done an interesting report on this vs a R26.R, worth reading people.

link?

[rsstman]

Drop Test b3nxj said:

rsstman said:

vz-r_dave said:

rsstman said:

think id take an r26r or focus rs and maybe an e39 m5 as well for the sort of rediculous price they want for this civic.

I think its already proven to be a fair amount quicker then both the RS and R26r. Says it all in the price though I suppose.

really? where was it proven? any links? thats one i havent read yet but i have just got back off holiday. i would have thought round a track the r26r would be very close and in a straight line the rs would surely be faster?

Custard. . .

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car_Honda_Mugen_Civic_T...

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=4886c2337c47d&car2=_Honda_Mugen_Civic_Type-R_FN1

0.4 of a second is hardly any faster to me and certainly not £19k faster, and the focus rs is faster in a straight line.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compa...

[Puk]

For that price I'd rather have this and I know it will keep it's value:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1082974.htm



But hey, if you want to spend all that money on a FWD japanese hatchback, please go ahead !

[SleeperCell]

cragswinter said:

As for being a future classic I wonder if any front drive car will ever be considered a true great but it certainly sounds awesome.

Whilst I am no particular fan of front wheel drive, there are plenty of great/classic front wheel drive cars. The most obvious is the Mini, along with a load of hot hatches starting with the Golf and 205 GTis, also some of the more groundbreaking Citroens like the DS and SM. They're all highly placed on any respectable list of the greatest cars of all time.

[vz-r_dave]

rsstman said:

Drop Test b3nxj said:

rsstman said:

vz-r_dave said:

rsstman said:

think id take an r26r or focus rs and maybe an e39 m5 as well for the sort of rediculous price they want for this civic.

I think its already proven to be a fair amount quicker then both the RS and R26r. Says it all in the price though I suppose.

really? where was it proven? any links? thats one i havent read yet but i have just got back off holiday. i would have thought round a track the r26r would be very close and in a straight line the rs would surely be faster?

Custard. . .

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car_Honda_Mugen_Civic_T...

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compare&car1=4886c2337c47d&car2=_Honda_Mugen_Civic_Type-R_FN1

0.4 of a second is hardly any faster to me and certainly not £19k faster, and the focus rs is faster in a straight line.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compa...

So nearly half a second isn't that much faster?? That equates to a massive amount over distance. Ofcourse if you want to race taffic light grand prix then fair enough. The Torque from the R26r's souless engine will ultimately win. Those that buy this car will not being doing so, they will be out on the track enjoying a real NA track weapon. Something you dont often see much of these day's with FI being a much cheaper option for power. Lets not dispute the price here, the car costs a hell of a lot more. I already know that.

And for your comments PUK, go take your ignorrance elsewhere. FWD Japanese hatch backs, especialy the hot versions from Honda have been a bench mark since the early 90's.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 23 October 14:40

[rsstman]

vz-r_dave said:

So nearly half a second isn't that much faster?? That equates to a massive amount over distance. Ofcourse if you want to race taffic light grand prix then fair enough. The Torque from the R26r's souless engine will ultimately win. Those that buy this car will not being doing so, they will be out on the track enjoying a real NA track weapon. Something you dont often see much of these day's with FI being a much cheaper option for power. Lets not dispute the price here, the car costs a hell of a lot more. I already know that.

And for your comments PUK, go take your ignorrance elsewhere. FWD Japanese hatch backs, especialy the hot versions from Honda have been a bench mark since the early 90's.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 23 October 14:40

"nearly" half a second is not a big difference, time it, it really is not long. and over a 1 and a half minute lap it is the difference of one only slightly better corner, it isnt even much in f1, and certainly isnt enough to warrant £18k, which is the point i was trying to make. basically you could get 2 r26r`s for that money and they are also a very exclusive car and im sure that huge 0.4 of a second difference would easily be settled and then some with a £400 remap if it really made any difference at all to anyone, which is not an option on the civic. dont get me wrong im sure it is quite an amazing car as is the renault, but £18k better than an r26r i dont think so.

[vz-r_dave]

rsstman said:

vz-r_dave said:

So nearly half a second isn't that much faster?? That equates to a massive amount over distance. Ofcourse if you want to race taffic light grand prix then fair enough. The Torque from the R26r's souless engine will ultimately win. Those that buy this car will not being doing so, they will be out on the track enjoying a real NA track weapon. Something you dont often see much of these day's with FI being a much cheaper option for power. Lets not dispute the price here, the car costs a hell of a lot more. I already know that.

And for your comments PUK, go take your ignorrance elsewhere. FWD Japanese hatch backs, especialy the hot versions from Honda have been a bench mark since the early 90's.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 23 October 14:40

"nearly" half a second is not a big difference, time it, it really is not long. and over a 1 and a half minute lap it is the difference of one only slightly better corner, it isnt even much in f1, and certainly isnt enough to warrant £18k, which is the point i was trying to make. basically you could get 2 r26r`s for that money and they are also a very exclusive car and im sure that huge 0.4 of a second difference would easily be settled and then some with a £400 remap if it really made any difference at all to anyone, which is not an option on the civic. dont get me wrong im sure it is quite an amazing car as is the renault, but £18k better than an r26r i dont think so.

Calling the R26r exclusive is hardly relevant when you look at the fact that just 20 of these Mugens are being built is it.

I see your point regarding the extra 18K.

Do not compare formula 1 to tow FWD hatches lol, .4 seconds in F1 may not be a lot but it is a fair amount in lower powered FWD hatch backs. Especially if you where lapping consistantly in both cars.

[rsstman]

vz-r_dave said:

rsstman said:

vz-r_dave said:

So nearly half a second isn't that much faster?? That equates to a massive amount over distance. Ofcourse if you want to race taffic light grand prix then fair enough. The Torque from the R26r's souless engine will ultimately win. Those that buy this car will not being doing so, they will be out on the track enjoying a real NA track weapon. Something you dont often see much of these day's with FI being a much cheaper option for power. Lets not dispute the price here, the car costs a hell of a lot more. I already know that.

And for your comments PUK, go take your ignorrance elsewhere. FWD Japanese hatch backs, especialy the hot versions from Honda have been a bench mark since the early 90's.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 23 October 14:40

"nearly" half a second is not a big difference, time it, it really is not long. and over a 1 and a half minute lap it is the difference of one only slightly better corner, it isnt even much in f1, and certainly isnt enough to warrant £18k, which is the point i was trying to make. basically you could get 2 r26r`s for that money and they are also a very exclusive car and im sure that huge 0.4 of a second difference would easily be settled and then some with a £400 remap if it really made any difference at all to anyone, which is not an option on the civic. dont get me wrong im sure it is quite an amazing car as is the renault, but £18k better than an r26r i dont think so.

Calling the R26r exclusive is hardly relevant when you look at the fact that just 20 of these Mugens are being built is it.

I see your point regarding the extra 18K.

Do not compare formula 1 to tow FWD hatches lol, .4 seconds in F1 may not be a lot but it is a fair amount in lower powered FWD hatch backs. Especially if you where lapping consistantly in both cars.

but then with a remap which would not be an option on the civic i think the r26r would be the faster car by maybe 0.4 of a second not that it matters. im sure it is a great car and to me and im sure 99% of other people it doesnt matter which car is 0.4 of a second faster because how often is it going to be going toe to toe with the rival on a track day and lapping consistently?
its all just the price that is the (huge) problem really.

[Staffy1984]

Would love to drive one of these, but would never dream of buying one (unless I had cash coming out of my backside), spend the 20k you've saved on tuning one of it's closest FI rivals and watch the civic dissapear into the rear view mirror....even on a track!!!!

Anyway I'd have a litchfield type 25 and run rings round this any day of the week, there's no way it'd beat the 420 cosworth bhp's and an active diff controller on a track or a road.

If money was no object I'd buy it in an instant though, cos this car is SPECIAL and people seem to be slating it just for the price, they don't seem to get that this is not going to be anyones daily runner, it will be garaged and owned by enthusiasts who have the money to show this car the love it deserves.

3 months ago I was one of the people slating this, but i would love to own this car, hammering out of a tight left hander and screaming up to the redline at 9000rpm.....Lush

[SonicHedgeHog]

You either get the VTEC thing or you don't. For those who get it the pleasure of going through series of bends in second gear at about 6000rpm and then flooring it up to 9000rpm before snicking that brilliant gearbox into third and doing it all over again is immeasurable. Combine that with a chassis to match and you have some people's dream car. Third gear in my old CTR was just awesome - you'd change up at about 55mph on a slip road and then hang onto third all the way up to about 90mph (obviously I went to Germany to do this, officer). Brilliant. For me, the Megane or Focus could have 500bhp and they still couldn't match the Civic for sheer driving pleasure. But then, my friends don't really 'do' cars so I don't have to defend what I drive, nor do I ever race anyone so it's just me and my car.

As an aside, I'm really looking forward to hearing the cost of the engine and suspension mods. I would be really tempted to buy a second hand CTR, get a virtual engine rebuild and new suspension and maybe throw some cash at some tasty Recaros and I'd be 90% of the way there. That's only because I can't afford the real thing.

[SonicHedgeHog]

Very, very tasty in white.

http://www.mugeneuro.com/News/Article.aspx?Id=32

From elsewhere on the website it says the engine mods are available to buy as well. Does anyone have the price list for the non-cosmetic items? I might just have one of those spoilers too....

[Mclovin]

in japan it will probably be normal priced....the pound is weak until the government goes so a pointless exercise trying to sell such a car here...

[JD]

SonicHedgeHog said:

For me, the Megane or Focus could have 500bhp and they still couldn't match the Civic for sheer driving pleasure. But then, my friends don't really 'do' cars so I don't have to defend what I drive, nor do I ever race anyone so it's just me and my car.

but could you have more fun in a Boxster S? as that's the price level its comparable to!

[SonicHedgeHog]

JD said:

SonicHedgeHog said:

For me, the Megane or Focus could have 500bhp and they still couldn't match the Civic for sheer driving pleasure. But then, my friends don't really 'do' cars so I don't have to defend what I drive, nor do I ever race anyone so it's just me and my car.

but could you have more fun in a Boxster S? as that's the price level its comparable to!

Took a test drive in a Boxster S. I really don't want this to get up any Boxster owners nose, but it didn't even come close to my old CTR. My thoughts on the Boxster S are that it is beautifully built, hugely competent and effortlessly quick. And it's those last two characteristics that made it no fun at all. You just put your down and off you go. No drama....no nothing really.

This isn't about which car is better. It is more about how this car is perfect for some people. If I am going to go fast I want to have to work the gearbox and rev the nuts off the engine. And I want an engine and gearbox that rewards that kind of driving.

Contributing to this thread has made my mind up about my next car. It's going to be the CTR with some Mugen bits. And I'm going to keep it for a long time because I doubt we will see it's like again. Emissons regs favour small capacity turbos so much that I bet the next CTR (if there is one) will be turbocharged, just like all the other hot hatches I can't get excited about.

[vz-r_dave]

SonicHedgeHog said:

JD said:

SonicHedgeHog said:

For me, the Megane or Focus could have 500bhp and they still couldn't match the Civic for sheer driving pleasure. But then, my friends don't really 'do' cars so I don't have to defend what I drive, nor do I ever race anyone so it's just me and my car.

but could you have more fun in a Boxster S? as that's the price level its comparable to!

Took a test drive in a Boxster S. I really don't want this to get up any Boxster owners nose, but it didn't even come close to my old CTR. My thoughts on the Boxster S are that it is beautifully built, hugely competent and effortlessly quick. And it's those last two characteristics that made it no fun at all. You just put your down and off you go. No drama....no nothing really.

This isn't about which car is better. It is more about how this car is perfect for some people. If I am going to go fast I want to have to work the gearbox and rev the nuts off the engine. And I want an engine and gearbox that rewards that kind of driving.

Contributing to this thread has made my mind up about my next car. It's going to be the CTR with some Mugen bits. And I'm going to keep it for a long time because I doubt we will see it's like again. Emissons regs favour small capacity turbos so much that I bet the next CTR (if there is one) will be turbocharged, just like all the other hot hatches I can't get excited about.

I disagree with FI for the next type R. I just do not see it happening. If it is the case I dont think they will call it a type R.

[911p]

The rear end's far to fussy IMO!

[i am here]

Nice, but I wouldn't want a white one!

[robsti]

911p said:

The rear end's far to fussy IMO!

Not fussy,disgusting would be nearer the mark!