RE: BMW M Division Wants A 1-series M

[aeropilot]

EMEZolfe said:

The list below shows the rumored specs of the BMW M Division baby car....
that's not exactly the real specs of this little beast but trust me
it will be close...very close


Real name: BMW 1M
Engine: New 2.5 M Twin-scroll Twin-Turbocharged I6 (DI, 10.0 compression ratio)
Power: 350PS Torque: 450Nm
Weight: 1430kg
Power/weight: 241bhp/tonne
Transmission: 7-speed DCT (manual still available)
Performance stats: 0-60 in 4.7 (0-62 in 4.9)
Top speed: limited to 250kmh

Want.

Might be worth holding back on ordering the 135i if this is going to be out next year sometime

[havoc]

RobM77 said:

I love my Z4C, but I can't believe they lessened the steering feel to save fuel That's one of the stupidest things in automotive engineering that I've ever heard. It's a sports car for fk's sake!! Mind you, at least they didn't fit a ridiculous non linear rack like Porsche, I think that's equally as stupid...

In which case, never drive a PAS-equipped NSX - elec PAS system (well, it is mid-engine'd) with variable-assistance (reduces at speed) attached to a variable-geometry rack!* Still getting used to it...not 100% sure about it at the moment, but mainly at low-speeds - at pace it 'picks up' and starts to feel a bit more natural...probably as the assistance drops-off!


* One wonders whether they threw as much tech as they could at the car...

[RobM77]

havoc said:

RobM77 said:

I love my Z4C, but I can't believe they lessened the steering feel to save fuel That's one of the stupidest things in automotive engineering that I've ever heard. It's a sports car for fk's sake!! Mind you, at least they didn't fit a ridiculous non linear rack like Porsche, I think that's equally as stupid...

In which case, never drive a PAS-equipped NSX - elec PAS system (well, it is mid-engine'd) with variable-assistance (reduces at speed) attached to a variable-geometry rack!* Still getting used to it...not 100% sure about it at the moment, but mainly at low-speeds - at pace it 'picks up' and starts to feel a bit more natural...probably as the assistance drops-off!


* One wonders whether they threw as much tech as they could at the car...

I drove one on a race track years ago and loved it, although yes, the steering was quite poor. Do you know when the variable ratio starts? The weird thing with Porsches is that their racks are totally linear up to 30 degrees and then suddenly go variable, so what you learn in one bend may not apply in another and I just can't get my head round it.

[havoc]

All I remember is test-driving a 3.2 I went into a roundabout with direct, light steering, and half-way through applying right-hand lock the assistance vanished AND I felt like I needed another armful of lock! NOT a great feeling...

Thankfully the one I've got seems a little more progressive in the assistance (that 3.2 was there, there, GONE!).

Not sure on the VG, but my car currently has noticeable front toe-out as it seems very sensitive despite the slower-ratio...bit odd that the car feels very responsive initially, then feels like its responses 'slow-down', even though the rack ratio is reducing! I'll work it out one day...

[Mr Whippy]

EMEZolfe said:

The list below shows the rumored specs of the BMW M Division baby car....
that's not exactly the real specs of this little beast but trust me
it will be close...very close


Real name: BMW 1M
Engine: New 2.5 M Twin-scroll Twin-Turbocharged I6 (DI, 10.0 compression ratio)
Power: 350PS Torque: 450Nm
Weight: 1430kg
Power/weight: 241bhp/tonne
Transmission: 7-speed DCT (manual still available)
Performance stats: 0-60 in 4.7 (0-62 in 4.9)
Top speed: limited to 250kmh

I'll admit I'd never buy one new anyway, but that is because I don't want a car THAT fast.

BUT, I would buy something more along the lines of the 320Si that came out.

Give me the N52 with 270bhp, and go light on the weight as much as possible. Do this at the expense (both in weight and cost) of toys on the spec sheet because personally I find anything beyond what you'd get in say a TVR, luxuries, and not really needed at all.

Who would honestly buy the M car new, when you could buy an M3 CSL with similar specs for much less? From an enthusiast point of view it would be what I would buy instead.

BMW M will always mean marketing while they perpetually offer toys and power over low price, low weight, and low spec.


It's great they make these top-end cars, but in the past they were M-spec (M635 CSi) or CSi kinda models... not proper M models.

The 320Si was the last focussed car model from BMW imho, and that was because it had to be done for homogolation purposes. A great shame, because they could genuinely make something fun, cheap and fast enough, but there just isn't that bigger margin in it.
Why make something like that, when the margin on the M model will be huge, and not have the cheap Si model nicking sales from it


Dave

[RobM77]

I appreciate that an enthusiast is more likely to be drawn towards performance rather than newness, but I can complete understand someone wanting a new car over a secondhand one. I've never bought a new car, but how much I care about my car (never dry steering, always keeping it waxed, always warming it up carefully, always servicing it properly and even doing interim oil changes myself etc) is at odds with buying a secondhand car where it might have been treated like dirt by the previous owner.

[Zod]

ureile said:

Zod said:

I would much, much prefer this to those ridiculous M-Power Trucks, the X5 M and X6 M.

The X6 M richly deserved to beat the Panamera into seond place in Evo's Turkey of the Year category. It is a travesty.

Did you ever drive one, or do you just repeat other peoples´opinion?

Do I need to drive one to know that an X5 M or X6 M will not be an M car as I know it (from ownership of two M3s, an M3 CSL and an M5 and experience of the M3 on various tracks including the Ring)?

Have you ever driven an M car?

[JoePublic]

BMW: If by any chance you're reading this. Do it. A small, properly practical, but genuinely sporting RWD car would be awesome.

[RobM77]

Zod said:

ureile said:

Zod said:

I would much, much prefer this to those ridiculous M-Power Trucks, the X5 M and X6 M.

The X6 M richly deserved to beat the Panamera into seond place in Evo's Turkey of the Year category. It is a travesty.

Did you ever drive one, or do you just repeat other peoples´opinion?

Do I need to drive one to know that an X5 M or X6 M will not be an M car as I know it (from ownership of two M3s, an M3 CSL and an M5 and experience of the M3 on various tracks including the Ring)?

Have you ever driven an M car?

I think the mere concept of an M off roader is wrong, without ever driving one!

[Mr Whippy]

Thats exactly why I want BMW to make a good sporty car, but not necessarily having to make it THE most expensive, powerful, fastest thing in the world!

Almost all the manufacturers are the same right now.

Tis a bit naff imho. The best sporty cars DON'T have to be 300bhp+ and loaded with toys and covered in badges to tell people it was an expensive one.

It's the fundamentals underneath that matter to me.

An M1 will be as turd as the MX5/6 simply because it's a Marketing car. I could buy a 130i Coupe and *make* my own bloody Tii for less money, with a nice diff, carbon panels, BMW Performance seats, a fruity exhaust etc...
Why BMW don't just make it is beyond me. Ah yes, it'll be too cheap for a 'performance' model that will interfere with their Marketing model... while also making the Marketing model look stupid.

I'm glad Evo magazine are telling BMW M how retarded they are with their MX5/6!

Dave

[RobM77]

Whilst I do like a performance car to have decent power, I couldn't agree more. I think Lotus are the only company making affordable everyday road cars with this philosophy, which is a shame. Porsche make the GT3, but it's designed and engineered as a track machine and of course costs a huge amount of money. Where's the Cayman or Boxster Clubsport? All Porsche have given us so far are tarted up specials like that new Boxster Spider or the Cayman Sport run-out edition.

I can't work it out myself; I'm sure it would give BMW and Porsche a lot of cred to create an affordable driver's car. Who says that halo cars have to be expensive?

[havoc]

RobM77 said:

I can't work it out myself; I'm sure it would give BMW and Porsche a lot of cred to create an affordable driver's car. Who says that halo cars have to be expensive?

Mr Whippy said:

The 320Si was the last focussed car model from BMW imho, and that was because it had to be done for homogolation purposes. A great shame, because they could genuinely make something fun, cheap and fast enough, but there just isn't that bigger margin in it.
Why make something like that, when the margin on the M model will be huge, and not have the cheap Si model nicking sales from it

I think there's your answer - the car companies are there to make a profit first-and-foremost. Light-weight & no-frippery cars won't make as much profit as a big, bells-and-whistles "look what you're getting for your money" machine!

Compare the Evora on-paper with the 370Z, then look at the prices, then tell me why the Evora costs so much more...*


* You and I can appreciate why, but your average buyer is going to see "300bhp for £30k or 276bhp for £45k" and probably not go much further, except to look at them both and then decide neither badge is 'prestige' enough, so will go and buy a Cayman instead!

[aeropilot]

Mr Whippy said:

I could buy a 130i Coupe and *make* my own bloody Tii for less money, with a nice diff, carbon panels, BMW Performance seats, a fruity exhaust etc...

Apart from the fact they've never made a 130i Coupe

And they have dropped the 130i 3dr hatch from the UK now as well.

The 125i Coupe has the right engine base, but would need all the 130i bits swapped over to it, which isn't an option if you're buying new of course.

That's my problem, I need dual purpose (everyday use plus option for competition) and was thinking about the 130i, but can't now they dropped it, so that leaves a lower powered 125i, or the 135i.

Mr Whippy said:

Why BMW don't just make it is beyond me.

And me
Hoping the 1M will be the right thing, depending on price and if they make it of course.

[RobM77]

havoc said:

RobM77 said:

I can't work it out myself; I'm sure it would give BMW and Porsche a lot of cred to create an affordable driver's car. Who says that halo cars have to be expensive?

Mr Whippy said:

The 320Si was the last focussed car model from BMW imho, and that was because it had to be done for homogolation purposes. A great shame, because they could genuinely make something fun, cheap and fast enough, but there just isn't that bigger margin in it.
Why make something like that, when the margin on the M model will be huge, and not have the cheap Si model nicking sales from it

I think there's your answer - the car companies are there to make a profit first-and-foremost. Light-weight & no-frippery cars won't make as much profit as a big, bells-and-whistles "look what you're getting for your money" machine!

Compare the Evora on-paper with the 370Z, then look at the prices, then tell me why the Evora costs so much more...*


* You and I can appreciate why, but your average buyer is going to see "300bhp for £30k or 276bhp for £45k" and probably not go much further, except to look at them both and then decide neither badge is 'prestige' enough, so will go and buy a Cayman instead!

You're undoubtedly right. It's a shame though isn't it?

Did the NSX Type R ever come to the UK? We were probably lucky to get the Integra to be honest. The Civic TR was hardly a Type R was it? It's probably what most people want though.

[jamiesim]

BMW please make this happen...

Make it £25k and you will sell these like hot cakes..

Light, simple and rapid!!! - M1 - LSR - sounds good to me

[RobM77]

jamiesim said:

BMW please make this happen...

Make it £25k and you will sell these like hot cakes..

Light, simple and rapid!!! - M1 - LSR - sounds good to me

The comfort options can always be on the options list. Practical driver's cars are very thin on the ground. The Integra Type R and Lotus Elise are the only two I can think of, but the Elise isn't as practical as the Integra. I don't like FWD, so ended up with an Elise and then bought a BMW for motorways. A rear drive ITR style car would be amazing as it would cover both bases. Would it sell though?

[RobM77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

oo.. really?

[Mr Whippy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yep, same here.

I just want BMW to do the best they can, but with a modest cheap car.

The N52 is a fapping fantastic engine all said and done...

Cripes, the M1 doesn't even have to be called that. Just call it a 130Ci sport.


I didn't realise however that BMW never did a 3.0 N52 Coupe, nor that they have stopped the 1 series hatch 3.0i...

Seems that BMW really are losing the plot. Remove any car that is in any way close in performance to the up-coming halo model, and then just make that halo model over-powered with a turbo, and cost £10,000 more.
It just shows that BMW see the M models as marketing ones, when they structure the rest of the range around them so as not to self-compete. If the M models were good enough in the first place, it wouldn't matter, but they clearly realise they are so naff these days that they get competition from their normal model range

Their own indication of a flawed M product imho!

Dave

[stuckmojo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I agree. BMW seems to have lost it a bit with the performance cars. As many said before, it wouldn't be that hard to make a bloody good car out of the 1 coupe, considering they already have all the components in the parts bin and could be built on line. I'd have one.

[k-ink]

You won't get any half decent powered German car with an affordable price. These sort of badge engineering companies are far too greedy these days. Buy a VXR if you want value for money and no BS.