RE: Driven: Tesla Roadster
Discussion
kambites said:
What's that got to do with it? Yes it's a hopeless mode of transport, but so were the first few generations of cars. Given a choice between one of these and a 1900ish internal combustion powered car, I know which I'd rather be driving on a daily basis.
Given the condition a 1900-ish car would have to be in to be a daily driver, and hence the value, I'll take that one!here a test in italy
http://www.motortribe.it/news/4068/Test%20Drive/Te...
the first one arrived by UKGARAGE!
http://www.motortribe.it/news/4068/Test%20Drive/Te...
the first one arrived by UKGARAGE!
eldar said:
The big problem is where to get the energy to power them - by 2015 we aren't going to be able to produce enough to meet our existing electricity consumption, let alone the additional transport load.
Until we sort out that, electric cars are really a niche market, I fear.
http://llewtubevideo.blip.tv/file/2621706/Until we sort out that, electric cars are really a niche market, I fear.
You might find this video of interest. Its largely about wind power, but theres a good quantity of information in it about the effect of electric cars on the grid. Worth a look when you got 30 mins or so to kill
It settles a few arguments about how much extra energy electric cars take up and where it actually comes from. There is quite a trick electric Lotus Elise in the video too.Edited by PJR on Friday 20th November 17:13
PJR said:
http://llewtubevideo.blip.tv/file/2621706/
You might find this video of interest. Its largely about wind power, but theres a good quantity of information in it about the effect of electric cars on the grid. Worth a look when you got 30 mins or so to kill It settles a few arguments about how much extra energy electric cars take up and where it actually comes from. There is quite a trick electric Lotus Elise in the video too.
I'm not a huge fan of that Dale Vince chap. He often says he's going to 'dispel some myths' about a subject, does so, then introduces his own. There are a few examples in that video. One is that he explains that the 'wind turbines only operate 30% of the time' is a misleading statement because they mean the load factor is ~30%. He then goes on to say that nuclear plants only have a 50% load factor. bYou might find this video of interest. Its largely about wind power, but theres a good quantity of information in it about the effect of electric cars on the grid. Worth a look when you got 30 mins or so to kill
It settles a few arguments about how much extra energy electric cars take up and where it actually comes from. There is quite a trick electric Lotus Elise in the video too.Edited by PJR on Friday 20th November 17:13
ks. It's 75%+ for the UKs nuke plants overall, >85% for Sizewell B and more for newer PWRs. hairykrishna said:
PJR said:
http://llewtubevideo.blip.tv/file/2621706/
You might find this video of interest. Its largely about wind power, but theres a good quantity of information in it about the effect of electric cars on the grid. Worth a look when you got 30 mins or so to kill It settles a few arguments about how much extra energy electric cars take up and where it actually comes from. There is quite a trick electric Lotus Elise in the video too.
I'm not a huge fan of that Dale Vince chap. He often says he's going to 'dispel some myths' about a subject, does so, then introduces his own. There are a few examples in that video. One is that he explains that the 'wind turbines only operate 30% of the time' is a misleading statement because they mean the load factor is ~30%. He then goes on to say that nuclear plants only have a 50% load factor. bYou might find this video of interest. Its largely about wind power, but theres a good quantity of information in it about the effect of electric cars on the grid. Worth a look when you got 30 mins or so to kill
It settles a few arguments about how much extra energy electric cars take up and where it actually comes from. There is quite a trick electric Lotus Elise in the video too.Edited by PJR on Friday 20th November 17:13
ks. It's 75%+ for the UKs nuke plants overall, >85% for Sizewell B and more for newer PWRs. The reality is that for at least 12 years we aren't going to have spare electricity for anything more than a very few (relatively) electrically propelled cars.
Newer nuke designs like the AP1000 are designed for 90%+ performance.
I think it's great for low speed, town driving. You will be using very little juice sat at traffic lights, or crawling along at 5 mph... I would imagine it's great compared to a big V8 auto sat in traffic. What mpg do most of these high performance cars get around the city? 10-12~ ?
I think it offers a different experience, and I would have one in the garage alongside other cars.
I think it offers a different experience, and I would have one in the garage alongside other cars.
Odd that Beefmeister refers to this as the first all electric sports car in the World. The concept of a light chassis, loaded with heavy batteries has been around long enough from Venturi. Venturi also designed their Fetish as a bottom up electric car, rather than just borrowing somebody else's chassis and stuffing electrics in. The other difference is that they didn't have the benefit of Hollywood Stars to promote their product as the world's first all electric sports car!
hairykrishna said:
I'm not a huge fan of that Dale Vince chap. He often says he's going to 'dispel some myths' about a subject, does so, then introduces his own. There are a few examples in that video. One is that he explains that the 'wind turbines only operate 30% of the time' is a misleading statement because they mean the load factor is ~30%. He then goes on to say that nuclear plants only have a 50% load factor. bks. It's 75%+ for the UKs nuke plants overall, >85% for Sizewell B and more for newer PWRs.
I can't say i had heard of him before seeing this video. But being a supplier, I did wonder if things might be a little biased ks. It's 75%+ for the UKs nuke plants overall, >85% for Sizewell B and more for newer PWRs. 
Still, Im pretty sure he explained the turbine load factor ok? IE, he said the load factor is 30%.. I honestly have no idea about nuclear power load factors though!That said, his points were a lot more convincing and better founded than some of the random crap out there that ends up on forums like this at times. And it was all explained largely in layman's terms. So I thought it interesting none the less
I really love the idea of these, and bravo to Tesla for making an electric car that looks & goes well. Plenty of room for improvement, but then we've had 100 years to get the IC engine to where it is today (and fundamentally, there haven't been *that* many alterations in the last 80 years).
Cheers,
Tom
Cheers,
Tom
A few firsthand observations, after owning a Tesla Roadster for a year in California.
1. The EMF field is nothing to worry about. I've measured it while driving with a handheld EMF meter, and it's about 1% the strength of a cell phone, increasing to about 50% for a couple seconds during peak acceleration. The HVAC unit generates considerably more cabin EMF than the motor, in fact. I take my laptop and camera with CF card in the trunk all the time, and have never had any problem on either of them with memory corruption.
2. The range is legitimately 180-200 miles (~300km) with ordinary driving. A few weeks ago I drove a spirited 190 miles from Salinas CA to Santa Maria CA, along Hwy 1 through Big Sur, on one charge, and still had 20 miles left at the end.
3. When you lift fully off the accelerator, the brake lights do come on, even without touching the brake. This addresses the safety concerns of the regenerative braking.
4. The Roadster is considerably cheaper in the States. I got mine for $88.5k (£53.5k) after rebates and incentives. In Colorado, due to a tax loophole, you can get a $42k rebate if you buy before the end of this year: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13622627
5. Hydrogen is a non-starter. It takes more electricity to produce than you can get back out of it, and is fiendishly difficult to transport and store. The Tesla may be pricey, but current fuel cell cars cost ten times that to manufacture. And battery tech is improving rapidly, but hydrogen hasn't changed in 14 billion years
6. Recharging stations will typically not be at gas stations. They will be at restaurants, shopping malls, etc. so that drivers have something to do while they wait for a charge. And the shopping malls get a relatively affluent captive audience for a small investment.
7. The Roadster only shares about 10% of its parts with the Lotus Elise; the rest is custom. And the Model S Sedan will have the battery pack spread under the floor, instead of a brick behind the seats.
8. EV's will not increase peak power demand. They can be charged at off-hours when the grid has plenty of spare capacity. This scales up to millions of EV's. 95% of my charging has been between midnight and 6am, when the electricity is cheapest.
-Ben
1. The EMF field is nothing to worry about. I've measured it while driving with a handheld EMF meter, and it's about 1% the strength of a cell phone, increasing to about 50% for a couple seconds during peak acceleration. The HVAC unit generates considerably more cabin EMF than the motor, in fact. I take my laptop and camera with CF card in the trunk all the time, and have never had any problem on either of them with memory corruption.
2. The range is legitimately 180-200 miles (~300km) with ordinary driving. A few weeks ago I drove a spirited 190 miles from Salinas CA to Santa Maria CA, along Hwy 1 through Big Sur, on one charge, and still had 20 miles left at the end.
3. When you lift fully off the accelerator, the brake lights do come on, even without touching the brake. This addresses the safety concerns of the regenerative braking.
4. The Roadster is considerably cheaper in the States. I got mine for $88.5k (£53.5k) after rebates and incentives. In Colorado, due to a tax loophole, you can get a $42k rebate if you buy before the end of this year: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13622627
5. Hydrogen is a non-starter. It takes more electricity to produce than you can get back out of it, and is fiendishly difficult to transport and store. The Tesla may be pricey, but current fuel cell cars cost ten times that to manufacture. And battery tech is improving rapidly, but hydrogen hasn't changed in 14 billion years
6. Recharging stations will typically not be at gas stations. They will be at restaurants, shopping malls, etc. so that drivers have something to do while they wait for a charge. And the shopping malls get a relatively affluent captive audience for a small investment.
7. The Roadster only shares about 10% of its parts with the Lotus Elise; the rest is custom. And the Model S Sedan will have the battery pack spread under the floor, instead of a brick behind the seats.
8. EV's will not increase peak power demand. They can be charged at off-hours when the grid has plenty of spare capacity. This scales up to millions of EV's. 95% of my charging has been between midnight and 6am, when the electricity is cheapest.
-Ben
RCHRGBL said:
6. Recharging stations will typically not be at gas stations. They will be at restaurants, shopping malls, etc. so that drivers have something to do while they wait for a charge. And the shopping malls get a relatively affluent captive audience for a small investment.
They had better be at Hotels so you can have a good nights sleep while you wait for your next 200 mile journey.RCHRGBL said:
A few firsthand observations, after owning a Tesla Roadster for a year in California.
8. EV's will not increase peak power demand. They can be charged at off-hours when the grid has plenty of spare capacity. This scales up to millions of EV's. 95% of my charging has been between midnight and 6am, when the electricity is cheapest.
-Ben
Couple of problems with off peak. Firstly generators are scaleable, particularly non-baseload. You don't burn gas, oil and nuclear to sell at a loss. That leaves wind, which is possible for overnight, but at a bigger loss. Second, the UK infrastructure isn't able to cope with the evening surge, adding everyone getting in from work and plugging their car in and sucking 13A on top of cooking their tea.8. EV's will not increase peak power demand. They can be charged at off-hours when the grid has plenty of spare capacity. This scales up to millions of EV's. 95% of my charging has been between midnight and 6am, when the electricity is cheapest.
-Ben
It will cope (probably) withe the people that will spend $100k on a car to save $200 a month on fuel.
We should have planned for this 15 years ago, but the eco warriors wouldn't let us.
eldar said:
Couple of problems with off peak. Firstly generators are scaleable, particularly non-baseload. You don't burn gas, oil and nuclear to sell at a loss. That leaves wind, which is possible for overnight, but at a bigger loss. Second, the UK infrastructure isn't able to cope with the evening surge, adding everyone getting in from work and plugging their car in and sucking 13A on top of cooking their tea.
That's why EV's have timers. I plug my Tesla in when I get home at 7pm, but it's programmed not to start drawing power til midnight. (Overrideable, but I almost never have to.) That's easier on the grid, and nighttime electricity is cheaper too.RCHRGBL said:
eldar said:
Couple of problems with off peak. Firstly generators are scaleable, particularly non-baseload. You don't burn gas, oil and nuclear to sell at a loss. That leaves wind, which is possible for overnight, but at a bigger loss. Second, the UK infrastructure isn't able to cope with the evening surge, adding everyone getting in from work and plugging their car in and sucking 13A on top of cooking their tea.
That's why EV's have timers. I plug my Tesla in when I get home at 7pm, but it's programmed not to start drawing power til midnight. (Overrideable, but I almost never have to.) That's easier on the grid, and nighttime electricity is cheaper too.PJR said:
I can't say i had heard of him before seeing this video. But being a supplier, I did wonder if things might be a little biased Still, Im pretty sure he explained the turbine load factor ok? IE, he said the load factor is 30%.. I honestly have no idea about nuclear power load factors though!
That said, his points were a lot more convincing and better founded than some of the random crap out there that ends up on forums like this at times. And it was all explained largely in layman's terms. So I thought it interesting none the less
Yes, he explained the turbine load factor correctly but his figures for nuclear were wrong. He seems an interesting chap but take his comments with a pinch of salt. He is trying to sell wind power after all. Still, Im pretty sure he explained the turbine load factor ok? IE, he said the load factor is 30%.. I honestly have no idea about nuclear power load factors though!That said, his points were a lot more convincing and better founded than some of the random crap out there that ends up on forums like this at times. And it was all explained largely in layman's terms. So I thought it interesting none the less
Worth mentioning for Tesla fans that they've been in touch with us at the Brighton & Hove Motor Club about running one in next years Speed Trials.
I asked the question in 'Club Motorsport' as they did to me; what class will it be in?
We are still unsure; they have sold enough i believe to be in 'production' class, but we are unsure about equivalence and are waiting from input from the MSA. Apparently next year they will be able to run in MSA events.
Andy
I asked the question in 'Club Motorsport' as they did to me; what class will it be in?
We are still unsure; they have sold enough i believe to be in 'production' class, but we are unsure about equivalence and are waiting from input from the MSA. Apparently next year they will be able to run in MSA events.
Andy
RCHRGBL said:
1. The EMF field is nothing to worry about. I've measured it while driving with a handheld EMF meter, and it's about 1% the strength of a cell phone, increasing to about 50% for a couple seconds during peak acceleration. The HVAC unit generates considerably more cabin EMF than the motor, in fact. I take my laptop and camera with CF card in the trunk all the time, and have never had any problem on either of them with memory corruption.
The effects of EMFs on human health is a contentious area, but there is scientific data emerging that suggests constant exposure to fields as low as 2 milliGauss could be detrimental to well being.Out of interest, what readings did you obtain and whereabouts in the cabin did you place the EMF meter? I've measured EMFs in excess of 30 mG from cell phone transmissions at a distance of 14 inches from source.
If the electric motor is sited only inches behind the driver, the inverse square law means field strength is going to be considerably weaker at the front of the cabin than at the back. Your feet are probably quite safe, but it could be a different story for your kidneys...
Edited by Deadly Dog on Saturday 21st November 09:30
I test drove the new Tesla yesterday in London. While some of your points may be valid, it seems you are expecting the Tesla to be something it is not. If the range is 211 miles, you work within these parameters. Some of your comments are akin to buying a LWB van and then complaining it is too large to go in your garage, or so forth. The Tesla is what it is. I really like this car and while not getting a really good chance to try the handling, as it sounds you did, it felt pretty tight and responsive underneath. There seem to have been quite a few buyers already, even at its relatively high UK price, so there are people on earth (as you put it) who would buy this car. In summary it is an extremely well executed piece of innovation. It could have a better range, it could be easier to access, it could be more price competitive, but all in all Tesla have created a great product which looks great in and out; and it should get better.
Edited by Motoring Expert on Saturday 21st November 10:26
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