Catch a car thief in my car with a key! How??
Discussion
kambites said:
john_p said:
kambites said:
Would certainly make me a little nervous if I owned any BMW.
EFA
martin
There's an easy fix to this one. The dealers don't issue the keys to people who walk in to the dealership. They arrange for the keys to be sent, by recorded delivery, to the address of the registered owner. When the keys are received by the owner at their address, the keys are taken to the dealer for programming. I don't know whether I'm being over crirtical here, but this whole thing smacks of urban legend / bulls
t. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder?
t. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder? I dont think the utility bill was the OP's!
This sort of scam has been about for ages. This and key cloning. Anyone with a "nice" car is at risk, whenever they got a dealer or even an aftermarket outlet. Anywhere where you leave your car for a few days (bodyshops, car audio places etc), there is a huge risk that details of your keys and VIN could be taken by an unscrupulous person. Whilst VINS are also visible on vehicles anywhere, criminal gangs are more likely to try to recruit an unscrupulous person at an establishment that regularly has nice cars in, just because there is a higher strike rate than trawling the streets looking for them!
Anywhere you log your reg, and or address, is a risk. It means you cannot be 100% safe at all, unless you do all your own maintenance, and only buy parts cash wihtout loggin an address.
After a friend's RS4 was taken with keys about 7 years ago, traced in the end to a cloned key (suspectedly) done by a valeter at the local main dealer, all my circle of friends and I are extremely wary of this and very untrusting of anywhere " new" that we take our cars, (even the sheds!)
A sad state of affairs, but just goes to show, no matter what security or procedures are out in place by a manufacturer, the crims will always find a way around it if they really want to!
OP and the other OP on the "Wilts dealer case" , you both have my sincere sympathy about this. It is difficult to know just how annoyed, pxxed off and crap you end up feeling when something like this happens, particularly as it is not your fault in the slightest, and yet you end up with all the grief! The thought of someone scoping you out, targetting your car like this, then going to all the rouble they go to, (false docs, remote dealers etc etc) is pretty harrowing.
This sort of scam has been about for ages. This and key cloning. Anyone with a "nice" car is at risk, whenever they got a dealer or even an aftermarket outlet. Anywhere where you leave your car for a few days (bodyshops, car audio places etc), there is a huge risk that details of your keys and VIN could be taken by an unscrupulous person. Whilst VINS are also visible on vehicles anywhere, criminal gangs are more likely to try to recruit an unscrupulous person at an establishment that regularly has nice cars in, just because there is a higher strike rate than trawling the streets looking for them!
Anywhere you log your reg, and or address, is a risk. It means you cannot be 100% safe at all, unless you do all your own maintenance, and only buy parts cash wihtout loggin an address.
After a friend's RS4 was taken with keys about 7 years ago, traced in the end to a cloned key (suspectedly) done by a valeter at the local main dealer, all my circle of friends and I are extremely wary of this and very untrusting of anywhere " new" that we take our cars, (even the sheds!)
A sad state of affairs, but just goes to show, no matter what security or procedures are out in place by a manufacturer, the crims will always find a way around it if they really want to!
OP and the other OP on the "Wilts dealer case" , you both have my sincere sympathy about this. It is difficult to know just how annoyed, pxxed off and crap you end up feeling when something like this happens, particularly as it is not your fault in the slightest, and yet you end up with all the grief! The thought of someone scoping you out, targetting your car like this, then going to all the rouble they go to, (false docs, remote dealers etc etc) is pretty harrowing.
Syndrome said:
There's an easy fix to this one. The dealers don't issue the keys to people who walk in to the dealership. They arrange for the keys to be sent, by recorded delivery, to the address of the registered owner. When the keys are received by the owner at their address, the keys are taken to the dealer for programming. I don't know whether I'm being over crirtical here, but this whole thing smacks of urban legend / bullst. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder?
1st off having them delivered to home is fine until you are abroad, on holiday or recently moved, add in royal mail and you may as well resign yourself to walking you are unlikely to get those spare keys. Getting hold of a utillity bill is easy, I am sat typing this on the equipment you would require to get a bill made up.t. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder? Engineer 1
Buckingham Palace
London,
SW1A 1AA
added to the address bit of a scanned bill and I've got proof I live there
s3fella said:
all my circle of friends and I are extremely wary of this and very untrusting of anywhere " new" that we take our cars,
If it bothers you that much then, as someone suggested earlier, just use some extra physical security - Disclok etc.One downside is that this would lead to even more confrontations where they take the keys off you.
Syndrome said:
There's an easy fix to this one. The dealers don't issue the keys to people who walk in to the dealership. They arrange for the keys to be sent, by recorded delivery, to the address of the registered owner.
Doesn't this approach fall down once the car enters the secondhand market? I doubt there's my ownership of a Honda is known officially to the Honda dealer network.Having come from the other side of this with my alfa I was raging that it was so difficult to get a key and get it cut and coded to the car, was endless checks and security measures as Id bought the car 2nd hand and so didnt match the details of the original owner on the dealer's records.
At least I know its too much of a pain in the ass for a theif when they can get a BMW so easily instead
At least I know its too much of a pain in the ass for a theif when they can get a BMW so easily instead
Fittster said:
Doesn't this approach fall down once the car enters the secondhand market? I doubt there's my ownership of a Honda is known officially to the Honda dealer network.
It's known to DVLA though, the dealer would get the registered keeper info from DVLA (not from the V5 they're given in case it's a dodgy one) and send the keys there.Syndrome said:
There's an easy fix to this one. The dealers don't issue the keys to people who walk in to the dealership. They arrange for the keys to be sent, by recorded delivery, to the address of the registered owner. When the keys are received by the owner at their address, the keys are taken to the dealer for programming. I don't know whether I'm being over crirtical here, but this whole thing smacks of urban legend / bullst. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder?
Not really foolproof though is it. Especially if your thief is or has access to a dishonest postman.t. I think something was mentioned about a utility bill being used as proof of ID. Well the dealer is as thick as st for accepting it in the first place, and how did some pikey car thief get his mits on an intact utility bill from the OP in the first place, ever heard of a shredder? Postman sees the clearly marked utilities bill and V5 come through and lifts them to pass on to dodgy mate. Keys are sent via recorded mail (in handy BMW envelope) that postman signs for and passes on to dodgy mate. Postie gets a bit of folding for his trouble.
Job done and probably worth the effort for an easy take of a top end beemer/merc etc
If someone wants your car badly enough they'll find a way to get it. That's why we pay our insurance premiums (I know unless you are properly minted, or a government agency it's the law) but you know what I mean. It's best not to worry about it too much. Make sure you've done all that you reasonably can be expected to, to prevent an easy theft and jobs a goodun I reckon 
QUICK UPDATE.......
I spoke to BMW head office and they basically said there is nothing they will or can do, it is the dealer who needs to provide a solution 'should' they have not carried out the correct checks! Someone in BMW head office has the keys department under their remit, i don't care how long it takes me I will get that person until they recognise something needs to change and that 3 fake documents does not result in a key to a high performance vehicle! It seems the only best practice they are interested in is how the sales guys are selling their cars and how many!!!!
I am awaiting a response from Oxford BMW as to whether they will offer me new locks for free, I have asked head office to call on my behalf as at least some form of help from them.
The police said that there was no crime in that the car didnt move therefore who is the victim! They also cannot do anything about the fraudulant information they used unless BMW actually report it to them......!! What's the chances of this happening, there is no way they are going to log this anywhere......
So all in all this leaves me absolutely nowwhere! Watchdog is definitely going to hear from me.
I've had more support from this blog than I have BMW, thanks everyone! (I must add though, that BMW Ketish Town have been excellent, it's shame that head office aren't as proactive!)
Any recco's on what car's to buy next??
I spoke to BMW head office and they basically said there is nothing they will or can do, it is the dealer who needs to provide a solution 'should' they have not carried out the correct checks! Someone in BMW head office has the keys department under their remit, i don't care how long it takes me I will get that person until they recognise something needs to change and that 3 fake documents does not result in a key to a high performance vehicle! It seems the only best practice they are interested in is how the sales guys are selling their cars and how many!!!!
I am awaiting a response from Oxford BMW as to whether they will offer me new locks for free, I have asked head office to call on my behalf as at least some form of help from them.
The police said that there was no crime in that the car didnt move therefore who is the victim! They also cannot do anything about the fraudulant information they used unless BMW actually report it to them......!! What's the chances of this happening, there is no way they are going to log this anywhere......
So all in all this leaves me absolutely nowwhere! Watchdog is definitely going to hear from me.
I've had more support from this blog than I have BMW, thanks everyone! (I must add though, that BMW Ketish Town have been excellent, it's shame that head office aren't as proactive!)
Any recco's on what car's to buy next??
Sounds like a bloody nightmare, and BMW UK just washing their hands of it (for the 2ns time I've read in as many weeks)
A letter or e-mail to Watchdog, and maybe even take a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau to see if they are just passing liability illegally.
bds, I know what I won't buy in the future (I was V. close to buying a 530d at the start of this year) Mind you, Audi dealers are a shower too...
A letter or e-mail to Watchdog, and maybe even take a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau to see if they are just passing liability illegally.
b
ds, I know what I won't buy in the future (I was V. close to buying a 530d at the start of this year) Mind you, Audi dealers are a shower too...Deva Link said:
s3fella said:
all my circle of friends and I are extremely wary of this and very untrusting of anywhere " new" that we take our cars,
If it bothers you that much then, as someone suggested earlier, just use some extra physical security - Disclok etc.One downside is that this would lead to even more confrontations where they take the keys off you.
Op you mention the delaer above, so best delete that. But are you local to that dealer, or like the other case, are you a fair way off? I wonder if this is the same gang...?
Edited by s3fella on Tuesday 24th November 14:42
BMW customer care appears to be going to st. Even Renault have a special procedure for acquiring copy keys which include booking an appointment with Renault FR and having the car with Reg etc. with them. Additionally when they code the key in it decodes any other keys that are not with the car. And this is from a French manufacturer.
I believe MB also need the car.
t. Even Renault have a special procedure for acquiring copy keys which include booking an appointment with Renault FR and having the car with Reg etc. with them. Additionally when they code the key in it decodes any other keys that are not with the car. And this is from a French manufacturer.I believe MB also need the car.
kambites said:
Erm, there was another post with someone saying exactly the same thing last week.
ETA: Here you go: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have seen three threads exactly like this in the past. one was a Blue M3, remember the photo added to the threadETA: Here you go: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by kambites on Monday 23 November 21:15
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