DVLA Refused Trade Plate Application WTF ???
Discussion
Strange this, I have been a part-time trader for 20 yrs (on & off) and have heard many stories related to this and other things, as i understand it, as long as the application is filled in correctly, then unless the DVLA have just cause to refuse the plates (dodgy dealing!! Tax/vat descrepencies maybe!!), then there shouldn't be a problem, you are paying for them after all !
Another issue is who/what constitutes a 'Trader' in motor vehicles!, again as i understand it, anyone can be a Trader if you are doing it for financial reward (from the first car sold onwards !), the only issue is that you need to declare the profit and expenses account to the inland revenue.
...To elaborate (and i am prepared to be corrected by someone with more knowledge in this field) Anyone, trader or joe bloggs, who sells 1 or 1,000 cars over 'any' period of time is obliged to declare any profit made to the Taxman !
Another issue is who/what constitutes a 'Trader' in motor vehicles!, again as i understand it, anyone can be a Trader if you are doing it for financial reward (from the first car sold onwards !), the only issue is that you need to declare the profit and expenses account to the inland revenue.
...To elaborate (and i am prepared to be corrected by someone with more knowledge in this field) Anyone, trader or joe bloggs, who sells 1 or 1,000 cars over 'any' period of time is obliged to declare any profit made to the Taxman !
OnlyMX5ives said:
My Dad who has been a trader for yrs and used to have trade plates (years ago) has just applied for a new set.
Basically he's chanced it a few times and with the penalties now it makes sense to get a set even for the rare occassions he needs them.
But his application has been refused as they said trading approx 50 cars per year isn't enough.
WTF is going on ? Its his business he needs to move untaxed cars and he's applied to do so legally but they say he can't.
Are we supposed to trailer everything ?
Because that isn't going to happen.
Id advise you to keep bothering the trade plate fellow at your local VRO. They get a lot of spurious applications and even more people who keep the plates untaxed, so they tend to be difficult with new applicants. If you have to complain then do so and theyll probably reconsider quite quickly.Basically he's chanced it a few times and with the penalties now it makes sense to get a set even for the rare occassions he needs them.
But his application has been refused as they said trading approx 50 cars per year isn't enough.
WTF is going on ? Its his business he needs to move untaxed cars and he's applied to do so legally but they say he can't.
Are we supposed to trailer everything ?
Because that isn't going to happen.
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no automatic right to trade plates...........if they were happy with his books and he hasnt had previous problems related to trade plates then they should issue them, clearly something they are not happy with. Ask them.
Rubbish - look at the application form: theres no tick-box for 'have included my accounts for your perusal'.
I used £5k profit a car as an example - to demonstrate that you can't judge a dealer by numbers sold.
However when you sell a £200k Bentley you sure as hell ought to be making more than £5k !
Tom Hartley sells from home (certainly he used to) and I'd suggest his margin is well over £5k a car.
However to get back on track Dad has around 50 cars in stock and obviously is VAT registered etc
They simply said he wasn't selling enough cars and to re apply when he was selling more.
I've told he to chase them up.
However when you sell a £200k Bentley you sure as hell ought to be making more than £5k !
Tom Hartley sells from home (certainly he used to) and I'd suggest his margin is well over £5k a car.
However to get back on track Dad has around 50 cars in stock and obviously is VAT registered etc
They simply said he wasn't selling enough cars and to re apply when he was selling more.
I've told he to chase them up.
Fox- said:
Surely anyone who buys anything with the intent of selling it on for profit must declare it to the taxman irrespective of whether its cars or not?
Well, yes!...It is obvious to you & me...but i was refering to cars and more importantly to the many tens of thousands of people who seem to think you need to declare being a 'Trader' if you sell more than 5, 10, 12, or whatever cars in a 12 month period! To my knowledge there is nothing written down to legislate this !. Anyone can be a 'Trader' you in effect just need to declare your intent!I was making the distiction that, for example, if Joe Bloggs happened to Buy and sell say 10 cars over a short period of time (which many do nowadays) And Joe made a healty profit, he would be obliged to declare that profit, (he isn't a trader but then again that is open to interpretation by the taxman!!!)
So, just be carefull all you serial car purchasing petrolheads on who you tell how much money you made out of the car you just bought last week !
Sorry, bit off topic now.
AndrewW-G said:
As per the last thread on trade plates, even though you may not strictly need it, VAT Reg, any HMRC documentation, account invoices from suppliers etc will help an application, they seem to be getting stricter and stricter when handing out TP's
But none of that was asked for.He filled in the form and they rejected it simply due to selling too few cars.
He has now spoken to them and they have said that there is no specific amount of cars required and is awaiting them to call him back (apparently they can't deal with enquiries there and then.
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no automatic right to trade plates...........if they were happy with his books and he hasnt had previous problems related to trade plates then they should issue them, clearly something they are not happy with. Ask them.
Rubbish - look at the application form: theres no tick-box for 'have included my accounts for your perusal'.Hope that helps.
POORCARDEALER said:
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no automatic right to trade plates...........if they were happy with his books and he hasnt had previous problems related to trade plates then they should issue them, clearly something they are not happy with. Ask them.
Rubbish - look at the application form: theres no tick-box for 'have included my accounts for your perusal'.Hope that helps.
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no automatic right to trade plates...........if they were happy with his books and he hasnt had previous problems related to trade plates then they should issue them, clearly something they are not happy with. Ask them.
Rubbish - look at the application form: theres no tick-box for 'have included my accounts for your perusal'.Hope that helps.
confused_buyer said:
rallycross said:
not sure what they changed but without premises or not vat registered and you wont get trade plates.
Can't see any reason why you need VAT registration. If you're doing it part time or cheap cars then you can be under the limit. The premises may be an issue. Your house can be a premises assuming you have somewhere to store the cars. If it looks as if you'll be parking them untaxed down the road maybe they might get a bit fussy.
You don't need to prove you are trading either, merely that you intent to trade (or intent to go into the car delivery business, maintenance etc.).
Dick_Phallus said:
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
GC8 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no automatic right to trade plates...........if they were happy with his books and he hasnt had previous problems related to trade plates then they should issue them, clearly something they are not happy with. Ask them.
Rubbish - look at the application form: theres no tick-box for 'have included my accounts for your perusal'.Hope that helps.
markcoznottz said:
There is no chuffing limit!. If you are buying cars to sell and make a profit then its a business end of as far as HMRC are concerned. People are so naieve on the subject of selling cars from home. I put it to the OP that his dad is a chancer who like previous posters have suggested, thought he could make a nice little earner selling a few cars from his front room, and bypass all the responsibilities that running a a legit car sales business incurs. You need to be VAT registered to buy trade ins from other garages, and cars from the auctions so I dont know where you intend to purchase vehicles. Thats if you can find any cars; massive shortgages of used vehciles, and thats even for traders with a stocking loan and a fueled up transporter ready to go and buy at the drop of a hat. You cannot use your house as premises either, I would check the small print on your mortgage, also the house insurance is invalid, so if your house burnt down that would be it. Game over no payout.
I put it to you that you can't be arsed to read posts otherwise you'd see that Dad is VAT registered (NOT that you have to be to buy from dealers nor most auctions) has over 50 cars in stock and has been trading for 30 yrs.How many chancers sell £200k Bentleys ?
To$$er !
OnlyMX5ives said:
How many chancers sell £200k Bentleys ?
How many people would want to buy a £200k car from some blokes driveway unless he as the actual owner rather than a 'trader innit'?Infact what Bentleys does he sell anyway, classic ones? Even Bentley themselves won't sell you one that costs £200,00!
Edited by Fox- on Friday 15th January 13:35
Edited by Fox- on Friday 15th January 13:56
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