TVR Sagaris Or Nissan GTR...

[Nish]

Had a Sagaris for just under a year a little while ago.

Awesome machine as everyone says, pure adrenaline and raging thunder, loved it.

Similar to you it was my main car although I only really drive on weekends.

Eventually I had to give in, it cannot be used in all circumstances - or most, no matter how much I wanted it too.

Multi storeys, speed humps etc are impossible due to its ride height. Even traversing a slightly uneven road at decent speed can become a challenge.

Its worth it for that bit of open road on a dry day. I have a 360 now, miss the Sagaris but wouldn't change back.

I think if you found the Gallardo hard work to deal with day to day, you will be ALOT worse off in a Sagaris.

[lazyitus]

The more I look at this poll, the more it angers me about what happened (still quite recently) to TVR.

It currently stands at 404 voters, 63% of whom whould pick a TVR Sagaris over the all fantastic GTR.

TVR did get things right, it would seem. Such a shame.

[justin220]

Nish - Interesting. That was the main reason for getting rid of the Gallardo. The other option would be buy a T350 again, and have a cheap hack. But I know I'd kick myself if I seen a Sagaris drive by..

Is it really that un useable?

[ScottishSamurai]

LuS1fer said:

DJC said:

toast boy said:

They are very different cars, the TVR will obviously be less practical but seeing as you didn't specify picking up flat packs from Ikea as a necessity I don't think it should really be a priority. The Sagaris would feel more special more of the time and surely that is the point? Sag al the way.

The Sag is extremely practical and the hatch makes it brilliant. I HAVE used it for picking up flat pack stuff from IKEA and wood flooring for Wicks. Not to mention transporting five foot xmas trees, cats around the country and the weekly shopping at tesco.

Ive also run a back to back comparison with a Z06 and the Vetter isnt in the same league as the Sag on English roads. The wide and shallow boot is also not as practical as the Sags. I had the Vetter outside my house and the salesman had to endure a slightly unusual roadtest as I loaded suitcases into it.

Any other myths half truths and drivel I can dispel for you all?

Yes, can you tell us which one is still in production?

Jeezo, nobody can say anything here without you or 300 jumping on your high horse.
the z06 is still in production, but which one do I see more of? Sagaris.
Which one looks as exciting as it is to drive? Sagaris
Which one has a nice interior? Sagaris


Both great cars, no doubt, but its widely reported that the Z06 isn't well suited to british roads. Get off your high horse.

[Mr Darcy]

The GTR has a good road presence. You really know your behind one or one is in your rear view mirror. But any muppet can drive it fast as it does it all the work for you.

The TVR on the other hand sounds like thunder and looks simply stunning. Its probably a more rewarding car to drive as when you hit the apex perfectlty you know its you that has done it and not the car.

For what its worth the TVR for me wins hands down wether I can live it with one everyday is a different matter.

[DJC]

No!!!

Seriously...do folks not actually read what is written?

I managed multi story car parks and I managed speed bumps. Badly cambered and surfaced roads were eaqsily dealt with aswell. Hell, you could even deal with a soaking wet through road relatively easily aswell if you so wished...if you wanted to deal with it at speed its a different story though. The you *do* have to be on your ball.

I did 20k miles in mine in under 20months. Everyday car. For every eventuality. In all conditions.

It wasnt hard.
It wasnt rocket science.
It wasnt difficult.

Make no mistake, the Sagaris isnt perfect. They have their issues and a vastly important point to make is that they are not all similar. What gearbox does it have? What diff does it have? What suspension is on each corner? No, that isnt a joking question, some cars left the factory with a different suspenion on each corner, esp the later ones. What exhaust system does it have? They should all have the large bore system, several different, getting a bdised mix of the 350/Tamora small bore and the Sagaris large bore systems.

You have to buy a Sagaris with your eyes wide open, but they *are* supremely practical, comfortable, quick, oh and very very lairy.

Do NOT expect a quiet life if you buy one, you will get attention every time you go out in it and yes it can be highly annoying.

[RobM77]

lazyitus said:

The more I look at this poll, the more it angers me about what happened (still quite recently) to TVR.

It currently stands at 404 voters, 63% of whom whould pick a TVR Sagaris over the all fantastic GTR.

TVR did get things right, it would seem. Such a shame.

That's for Pistonheads though. We would also like to see clutch delay valves and drive by wire throttles removed, or the amount of understeer in cars reduced, or more rear wheel drive choices available. That's not going to happen though, because we're in a minority. Car companies selling expensive vehicles obviously can't rely on an enthusiast base to keep going, like companies making £3,000 bicycles can. That said, Morgan and Caterham don't seem to have much trouble making a profit selling cars of similar concept and worth to TVRs, maybe TVR just needed to cut it down to a couple of sales outlets and run the business better?

[jon-]

DJC][Sagaris said:

*are* supremely practical

This may be the first time these words have ever been mentioned about a Sag ;D

(fwiw I'm still saving hard to have a Sag as a second car, even though I voted GTR)

[scotty_d]

Sagaris for me too its just a nissan that goes quick like every other skyline out there blends in to the background and is not a real drivers car, not raw enough for myself.

[blindswelledrat]

I wonder how this thread would differ if people actually told the truth about what they would buy if they had the money!

[RobM77]

DJC said:

Make no mistake, the Sagaris isnt perfect. They have their issues and a vastly important point to make is that they are not all similar. What gearbox does it have? What diff does it have? What suspension is on each corner? No, that isnt a joking question, some cars left the factory with a different suspenion on each corner, esp the later ones. What exhaust system does it have? They should all have the large bore system, several different, getting a bdised mix of the 350/Tamora small bore and the Sagaris large bore systems.

That's really quite shocking! It's made me very wary indeed of Sagarises and TVRs. I think this probably answers the question above as to why TVR went under.

[lazyitus]

RobM77 said:

lazyitus said:

The more I look at this poll, the more it angers me about what happened (still quite recently) to TVR.

It currently stands at 404 voters, 63% of whom whould pick a TVR Sagaris over the all fantastic GTR.

TVR did get things right, it would seem. Such a shame.

That's for Pistonheads though. We would also like to see clutch delay valves and drive by wire throttles removed, or the amount of understeer in cars reduced, or more rear wheel drive choices available. That's not going to happen though, because we're in a minority.

Can't argue with that.

RobM77 said:

Car companies selling expensive vehicles obviously can't rely on an enthusiast base to keep going, like companies making £3,000 bicycles can. That said, Morgan and Caterham don't seem to have much trouble making a profit selling cars of similar concept and worth to TVRs, maybe TVR just needed to cut it down to a couple of sales outlets and run the business better?

You're quite possibly right there, also.

[RobM77]

lazyitus said:

RobM77 said:

lazyitus said:

The more I look at this poll, the more it angers me about what happened (still quite recently) to TVR.

It currently stands at 404 voters, 63% of whom whould pick a TVR Sagaris over the all fantastic GTR.

TVR did get things right, it would seem. Such a shame.

That's for Pistonheads though. We would also like to see clutch delay valves and drive by wire throttles removed, or the amount of understeer in cars reduced, or more rear wheel drive choices available. That's not going to happen though, because we're in a minority.

Can't argue with that.

RobM77 said:

Car companies selling expensive vehicles obviously can't rely on an enthusiast base to keep going, like companies making £3,000 bicycles can. That said, Morgan and Caterham don't seem to have much trouble making a profit selling cars of similar concept and worth to TVRs, maybe TVR just needed to cut it down to a couple of sales outlets and run the business better?

You're quite possibly right there, also.

It'd be interesting to see the sales figures comparing Caterhams and TVRs; there's more than enough passion for both marques.

I can't see it adding much to the purchase cost of a car like the Sagaris to get a professional chassis guru (there are plenty out with good CVs working freelance) to sort the suspension, and then to ensure that the quality and build remains consistent.

For servicing, Caterham seem to be doing ok on having two service centres ("South", near Dartford and "Midlands" near Leicester), and then a whole load of specialists up and down the country.

As for sales, Caterham's model would work just fine I'm sure - two sales centres in England with a delivery truck standing by for customers that don't wish to travel.

For the model line up, the Sagaris is great as a range topper, no need for the 440R or Speed 12 for such a small company. They then just need 2/3 others like the Tuscan, T350 and Tamora and leave it at that.

If I had the money I'd happily have a go at managing a new TVR! I'm sure many of us would too

[blindswelledrat]

lazyitus said:

[


It currently stands at 404 voters, 63% of whom whould pick a TVR Sagaris over the all fantastic GTR.

TVR did get things right, it would seem. Such a shame.

.

I think this speaks volumes about why TVR did go to the wall though. Look at that Sagaris- its utterly stunning-sounds beautiful and is as quick as you like. Everyone wants it.
However-look how many more people put actual money into buying a GTR than a Sagaris. Many times more despite the massive desirability of the Sagaris.
They have a reputation as a recipe for disaster- a money pit. People darent buy them and thats was the problem.

[scotty_d]

Mag1calTrev0r said:

900T-R said:

Mag1calTrev0r said:

I'm not saying you won't be able to get TVR parts in the near future, just that eventually they will dry up.

Unless your crystal ball has just told you that, this is a statement that is unsupported by fact. The Multipart deal stands, parts are easier to come by than they were when TVR were still churning out cars, and if one day it should cease to exist I'm pretty damn sure the independant aftermarket will take over given the willingness of TVR owners to actually spend money on maintaining their cars (an increasingly rare breed overall).

I stand down I, wrongly, assumed that the parts would dry up. I had no idea they had such a good parts network in place. That's very reassuring. Don't get me wrong, I love TVRs... just can't afford one.

To be fair though, I was careful to say eventually

Just to second that parts are freely available for all the popular models i have never had a issue sourcing anything;)

[lazyitus]

blindswelledrat said:

They have a reputation as a recipe for disaster- a money pit. People darent buy them and thats was the problem.

I don't think that's the complete picture but it's certainly one part of it.

[BlueEyedBoy]

If you don't need 4 seats, then the Sag.

[LuS1fer]

lazyitus said:

blindswelledrat said:

They have a reputation as a recipe for disaster- a money pit. People darent buy them and thats was the problem.

I don't think that's the complete picture but it's certainly one part of it.

It can't be the complete picture as Marcos also went down the pan with a very similar product employing an untra-reliable Chevy engine. Caterhams tend to be used as track cars, competing in a different segment. I think TVR tried to have too many models which ultimately confused everyone.

[DJC]

Ill tell you a story that Ive never relayed before, mostly because I thought it was unfair, however the company is no longer producing the product, it isnt for sale and Im no longer involved with either car in anyway, so Im not biased or prejudiced.

The Nov edition EVO back in 05 or 06 or whenever it was that EVO did the Sagaris v Marcos GT2 shoot. What was never reported in either the article or by myself was that the supposed 2 day shoot was cut short by aprox 1 day. Why because one of the cars expired.

It wasnt the Sagaris.


Always amused me knowing that when all the talk of TVR and Sagaris problems were going about and how the new Marcos had the reliable Chevvy unit in and how it would steal TVR sales and get right all the stuff TVR got wrong.

Oh well, just a semi amusing anecdote for you all.

[LuS1fer]

What was the fault though? Having had flawless reliability from LS engines (which have been round since 1997) and given it's a very simple pushrod V8, is the fault not more likely to be in the construction, execution or programming of the Marcos?