RE: 'Yump' For Joy As Spyker Saves Saab
Discussion
Fittster said:
Spyker who have made approximately 300 cars in their existance taking over SAAB. I can't see this going well.
They're a low-volume car manufacturer though. They make as many as they're prepared to sell, like Bristol. Just because they haven't sold gazillions of C8s doesn't mean they're unsuccessful. Depends on their business plan - they're successfully exclusive. Otherwise they wouldn't have the money to do this.Saab will become the volume side of their business, and given their design flair (especially in interiors), they can make them truly unique ownership prospects again.
Fittster said:
Spyker who have made approximately 300 cars in their existance taking over SAAB. I can't see this going well.
I wouldn't be quite so pessimistic but I think peoples expectations that they'll come in and suddenly make interesting rwd sports cars is a little farfetched...surely they'll have to use existing platforms to get the business up and running again..have spyker got the billions it stakes to develop a whole new range and manufacturing process?I hate to be a party-pooper, but I have some serious doubts about how this merger is going to work.
For starters, I have yet to hear anyone explain where a loss-making outfit like Spyker is going to get the capital investment needed to fund a complete overhaul of another loss-making company like Saab. Spyker itself needed rescuing just a few years ago. It was saved from certain bankruptcy when the Mubadala Development Company (an investment firm owned by the government of Abu Dhabi) poured money into the firm in exchange for 17% of Spyker stock. The Saab deal wouldn't have happened at all if the Swedish government hadn't stepped in and guaranteed a €400 Million ($563 Million) loan from the European Investment Bank. Where is Spyker (a company which has NEVER turned a profit) going to get the money to pay that back?
Another boatload of cash from Abu Dhabi, perhaps?
Then there's Saab's product portfolio. Sure, the 9-3 is good but it's beginning to show it's age. The new 9-5 looks to be a winner but it's difficult to assess this car properly since nobody has driven it yet. Then there's the 9-4X, based on the new Cadillac SRX. The 9-4X and SRX are built on GM's Theta platform along with the Chevrolet Equinox, Saturn Vue and a myriad of other uninspiring GM soft-roaders. Will a Cadillac based, Mexican built soft-roader make the grade as a Saab or will it suffer the same indignity as the Saabaru 9-2X and the abominably horrible 9-7X? Even if all three of these cars are solid performers, it takes more than a three-model range to make a successful car company these days. Considering how Mercedes and BMW are scrambling to fill every conceivable niche under the sun (plus a few which haven't even been invented yet), how is Saab going to answer this challenge? More importantly, where is the money for new model development going to come from?
Saab may have barely escaped the executioner's axe for now, but they're not out of the woods yet.
Madman of the People
For starters, I have yet to hear anyone explain where a loss-making outfit like Spyker is going to get the capital investment needed to fund a complete overhaul of another loss-making company like Saab. Spyker itself needed rescuing just a few years ago. It was saved from certain bankruptcy when the Mubadala Development Company (an investment firm owned by the government of Abu Dhabi) poured money into the firm in exchange for 17% of Spyker stock. The Saab deal wouldn't have happened at all if the Swedish government hadn't stepped in and guaranteed a €400 Million ($563 Million) loan from the European Investment Bank. Where is Spyker (a company which has NEVER turned a profit) going to get the money to pay that back?
Another boatload of cash from Abu Dhabi, perhaps?
Then there's Saab's product portfolio. Sure, the 9-3 is good but it's beginning to show it's age. The new 9-5 looks to be a winner but it's difficult to assess this car properly since nobody has driven it yet. Then there's the 9-4X, based on the new Cadillac SRX. The 9-4X and SRX are built on GM's Theta platform along with the Chevrolet Equinox, Saturn Vue and a myriad of other uninspiring GM soft-roaders. Will a Cadillac based, Mexican built soft-roader make the grade as a Saab or will it suffer the same indignity as the Saabaru 9-2X and the abominably horrible 9-7X? Even if all three of these cars are solid performers, it takes more than a three-model range to make a successful car company these days. Considering how Mercedes and BMW are scrambling to fill every conceivable niche under the sun (plus a few which haven't even been invented yet), how is Saab going to answer this challenge? More importantly, where is the money for new model development going to come from?
Saab may have barely escaped the executioner's axe for now, but they're not out of the woods yet.
Madman of the People
Spyker is a good company with great ambition to save SAAB. but i think they use the SAAB company as a refund for their own company which suffering true spending a lot of money into the Formula 1 last years...
Now if the 400 milion Euro's money loan spending good , they can save SAAB. But what's next?
Taken over the SAAB Aerospace industry? and make some Spyker/SAAB aeroplanes or even fighters just like in de historical old days of Spyker...
Victor Muller (CEO Spyker)is an aventuring guy, so you never knows..
Now if the 400 milion Euro's money loan spending good , they can save SAAB. But what's next?
Taken over the SAAB Aerospace industry? and make some Spyker/SAAB aeroplanes or even fighters just like in de historical old days of Spyker...
Victor Muller (CEO Spyker)is an aventuring guy, so you never knows..
konrad565 said:
I'm too young to have seen the days of Saab rallying
I'm not...They were a mad bunch, all of them.
The sight of their two stroke flat-as-a-fart service estates, crammed full of bits, with wheels and more bits stacked on the roof, trying to stop downhill on a Scottish mountain with terminal brake fade was something to behold...
Then there was Carlsson, deliberately rolling his car down a grassy bank for fun, just to prove he could drive it away...
Eeee, lad, them wuz the days...
Fittster said:
Spyker who have made approximately 300 cars in their existance taking over SAAB. I can't see this going well.
Better than SAAB folding, at least they will have ago ( the only bad thing is if it dosnt go well it may take Spyker with it!) but im giving the sale a thumbs up 
good luck spyker!!Twincam16 said:
Fittster said:
Spyker who have made approximately 300 cars in their existance taking over SAAB. I can't see this going well.
They're a low-volume car manufacturer though. They make as many as they're prepared to sell, like Bristol. Just because they haven't sold gazillions of C8s doesn't mean they're unsuccessful. Depends on their business plan - they're successfully exclusive. Otherwise they wouldn't have the money to do this.Saab will become the volume side of their business, and given their design flair (especially in interiors), they can make them truly unique ownership prospects again.
What is clear is that, as part of the transaction, the Convers financial group, Spyker’s biggest shareholder to date, which is controlled by Vladimir Antonov, a Russian oligarch, will sell its shares to a company wholly owned by Victor Muller, Spyker’s chief executive. Spyker shareholders will restructure under the deal. "
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind...
So any bets the business model is take taxpayer's cash, bonus payments to Russian owners, go bust.
That's why Saab's liaison with the Dutch is a natural one. 
If they can bring the Viking spirit back in their products, there'll be no stopping them. 
I think Spyker have a wonderful opportunity to build SAAB into a niche brand that is different to an Audi or BMW, mostly by smart use of supplier's technology and external engineering groups. A huge problem for them is that by trying to get closer to the german brands they lost what made them unique.
They also need to get better at portraying the positive aspects of Swedishness in their cars. I would say values such as cool, timeless design, really eco-friendly (I write with a Swedish geothermal heat pump in the basement) are both believeable and positive. As shown they have the heritage for this and the designs can be timeless.
Spyker has strong relations with Lotus Engineering and Lotus have one of the most important engine efficiency R&D operations R&D operations as well as a lot of experience reducing weight. If you read some of Lotus's articles on this subject you can see that environmental performance and driving enjoyment can go hand-in-hand. A 900 sized car with a series-hybrid arrangement driving all 4 wheels would get me to my local SAAB dealer very quickly.
Good luck Spyker. I really hope that you can get enough revenue to keep going until you can get some really innovative products out there that take SAAB back to where we hope it to be.
They also need to get better at portraying the positive aspects of Swedishness in their cars. I would say values such as cool, timeless design, really eco-friendly (I write with a Swedish geothermal heat pump in the basement) are both believeable and positive. As shown they have the heritage for this and the designs can be timeless.
Spyker has strong relations with Lotus Engineering and Lotus have one of the most important engine efficiency R&D operations R&D operations as well as a lot of experience reducing weight. If you read some of Lotus's articles on this subject you can see that environmental performance and driving enjoyment can go hand-in-hand. A 900 sized car with a series-hybrid arrangement driving all 4 wheels would get me to my local SAAB dealer very quickly.
Good luck Spyker. I really hope that you can get enough revenue to keep going until you can get some really innovative products out there that take SAAB back to where we hope it to be.
uremaw said:
Great news, but i'm still to be convinced that a loss-making niche car maker (who sold about 50 cars total in 2008) is going to be able to turn around a loss-making volume car maker, especially if they're planning to ditch the GM underpinnings.
Good luck to them though.
Its good news. Its going to be a challenge, thats for sure. I hope they have the vision and finance to produce something good and sustainable, rather than a modern day DeLorean.Good luck to them though.
eldar said:
Its good news. Its going to be a challenge, thats for sure. I hope they have the vision and finance to produce something good and sustainable, rather than a modern day DeLorean.
DeLorean started from scratch, so all their factory workers had no experience in car assembly and they paid a lot of money to Lotus to develop the car for them. SAAB have an experienced work force and many brilliant car designers already, plus a new car ready for launch now. I'm not saying they are assured success but I don't think the DeLorean analogy is right.Whilst I can appreciate the calls to come up with something that harks back to the glory days, and 4WD and niche models etc. I think that is missing reality. For the next few years this about business stability and re-building the brand.
The announcement states that Saab has a drop of 50,000 cars (about 60%) sold between 2008 and 2009. Price competitiveness is a volume game, and I suspect that Spyker will have agreed to use GM purchasing power to keep their costs in control. Staying afloat on those volumes at the pricepoint they are targetting is more than tough.
Top of the list has to be widely publish the deal and stop the view that buying Saab is a dangerous choice for consumers - the protracted deal will have caused real damage to consumer confidence. The press release doesn't fill me with hope there.......Joe Soap will be more scared than he was. beyond that:
Item 1 properly launch the new 9-5 (saloon and estate), get critcial approval and increase the volumes sold to create cashflow. Focus on quality and customer satisfaction (not a GM strong point........)
Item 2 is market the 9-3 more aggressively to increase sales, and perhaps add standard fit goodies to appear better value. Again, cashflow.
Item 3 is then to look at partnerships (such as Subaru) to create models that straddle the normal categories (so they aren't directly taking on the big boys, but havd a unique selling point)at minimal cost - this USP could be size or design/technology.
Item 4 is then to go for the halo and niche models to reflect the brand heritage and further drive sales of the bread-and-butter models.
They need to get into the customer satisfaction, perceived quality, higher sales/prices loop that BMW and Mercedes have. 9-5 is the key to starting that.
The announcement states that Saab has a drop of 50,000 cars (about 60%) sold between 2008 and 2009. Price competitiveness is a volume game, and I suspect that Spyker will have agreed to use GM purchasing power to keep their costs in control. Staying afloat on those volumes at the pricepoint they are targetting is more than tough.
Top of the list has to be widely publish the deal and stop the view that buying Saab is a dangerous choice for consumers - the protracted deal will have caused real damage to consumer confidence. The press release doesn't fill me with hope there.......Joe Soap will be more scared than he was. beyond that:
Item 1 properly launch the new 9-5 (saloon and estate), get critcial approval and increase the volumes sold to create cashflow. Focus on quality and customer satisfaction (not a GM strong point........)
Item 2 is market the 9-3 more aggressively to increase sales, and perhaps add standard fit goodies to appear better value. Again, cashflow.
Item 3 is then to look at partnerships (such as Subaru) to create models that straddle the normal categories (so they aren't directly taking on the big boys, but havd a unique selling point)at minimal cost - this USP could be size or design/technology.
Item 4 is then to go for the halo and niche models to reflect the brand heritage and further drive sales of the bread-and-butter models.
They need to get into the customer satisfaction, perceived quality, higher sales/prices loop that BMW and Mercedes have. 9-5 is the key to starting that.
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