RE: Driven: The New BMW 5-Series

[daemon]

St John Smythe said:

daemon said:

Phil Dicky said:

A bet Jaguar can't believe their luck

I find the XF bland, plasticky and gimmicky.

Also, no doubt the pics are of the SE, it always takes the M Sport variants to really bring out the best in BMW designs.

Edited by daemon on Thursday 28th January 22:38

How did you find the handling and performance when you test drove the XF?

I didnt like the revolving air vents. i thought they were unnecessary.

I didnt think the performance was up to much, though that was the 2.7 twin turbo D, not the latest one.

It handled 'ok' but i wouldnt have had the confidence in it that i would have with a 5 across country.

I though their 'cheaper than an equivalent BMW' didnt take into account the fact that you could get a hefty discount on a new 5.

I didnt necessarily believe the XF would hold its value as well as a comparable BMW.

I thought from some angles the car looked bland.

The salesman i dealt with was a complete cock - he kept me waiting for approx 30 mins whilst he sat and chatted to a friend.

They showed little interest in actually closing the deal, to the point whereby i phoned them back and said i had sold my own car back to the main BMW dealer (a sticking point had been the trade in price for my x5) and that i was in a position to buy with no trade in.

They didnt offer any possible loan car to help persuade me.

Given i was in their target audience, they made no attempt to treat me as anything other than an 'alien'.

[daemon]

Agoogy said:

pjv997 said:

Chr1sch said:

I am keeping an open mind, the old car without M-Sport kit looked crap, but the M-Sport looks great IMO - I will reserve judgement....

Agreed - too much negative comment - the people who will buy the car will compare to what is available in the market at the time of purchase (probably A6, E class and XF). Based on recent history, BMW will win the performance/emissions equation by a margin and be at least equal to class leading dynamics - for many that will be sufficient to sway the buying decision.

M-Sport versions will look very different and be visually more appealing.

I suspect a manual M-Sport 535i could be an interesting proposition. Also looking forward to seeing the new M5.

Interesting how none of the competion need bodykits....
I'm not saying a well styled bodykit is a bad thing or even unwelcome on a Jag/Audi/Merc...they just don't need them like BMW does...

BMW appeal to two markets though as they're seen as the 'sporting choice' - the SE is the more reserved choice, and the M Sport for those who want to drive on.

[daemon]

esvcg said:

SDxsi said:

I can't believe people have been so nice as to comment that it looks dull! That front end is f king vile. IMO of course.

esvcg:
Yer the front bumper looks really pushed up, especially the middle bit under the kidney grills that looks like its been forgotten at the bottom.

Did a really rough mock up (bored!), but IMO looks meaner.

Its the SE, its not designed to look 'mean'.

[daemon]

ProfessorPeach said:

daemon said:

ProfessorPeach said:

For my money, Audi still lead the way for execs, although in design terms mostly.

Audi reliability is poor.

The new 5-series, like the 3-series saloon, is just "a car".

With the a6??

I assume that you are referring to the first paragraph of my post.

Yes, I think the A6 is the best looking car in its class.

Actually, I think that's pretty much so widely accepted that it's actually what you might call a "fact".

Arguing otherwise is just silly.


Best wishes

Simon

I'd love to see evidence of all these people thinking the a6 is a 'looker'..



Its a big grey bland forgettable german saloon.

Edited by daemon on Friday 29th January 21:14

[va1o]

Zod said:

kambites said:

Erm, what standard VAG FWD platform is the A6 based on?

same one as the Passat.

No its not, the A6 uses its own platform. The Passat has a streched Golf platform. Sizewise the Passat is far closer to an A4 than an A6.

[Deva Link]

daemon said:

I didnt necessarily believe the XF would hold its value as well as a comparable BMW.

I'd be very nervous about owning an XF with no backstop. Lease or a PCP with guaranteed future value has to be the way to go - who knows where Jaguar will be in 3yrs time.

[daemon]

Deva Link said:

daemon said:

I didnt necessarily believe the XF would hold its value as well as a comparable BMW.

I'd be very nervous about owning an XF with no backstop. Lease or a PCP with guaranteed future value has to be the way to go - who knows where Jaguar will be in 3yrs time.

Yeah, indeed.

Ironically, the dealership i went to subsequently closed down.

[daemon]

Deva Link said:

daemon said:

I didnt necessarily believe the XF would hold its value as well as a comparable BMW.

I'd be very nervous about owning an XF with no backstop. Lease or a PCP with guaranteed future value has to be the way to go - who knows where Jaguar will be in 3yrs time.

Actually, now that i think about it, i got a PCP deal figure on the jag and it was naff. It was amusing because the salesman was singing the praises of 'strong residuals' and yet Jaguar finance valued their own cars quite poorly.

[Deva Link]

daemon said:

Deva Link said:

daemon said:

I didnt necessarily believe the XF would hold its value as well as a comparable BMW.

I'd be very nervous about owning an XF with no backstop. Lease or a PCP with guaranteed future value has to be the way to go - who knows where Jaguar will be in 3yrs time.

Actually, now that i think about it, i got a PCP deal figure on the jag and it was naff. It was amusing because the salesman was singing the praises of 'strong residuals' and yet Jaguar finance valued their own cars quite poorly.

I've never bought using PCP but it's always interesting to ask for a PCP quote - the GFV has come close to putting me off some cars!

[Zod]

daemon said:

ProfessorPeach said:

daemon said:

ProfessorPeach said:

For my money, Audi still lead the way for execs, although in design terms mostly.

Audi reliability is poor.

The new 5-series, like the 3-series saloon, is just "a car".

With the a6??

I assume that you are referring to the first paragraph of my post.

Yes, I think the A6 is the best looking car in its class.

Actually, I think that's pretty much so widely accepted that it's actually what you might call a "fact".

Arguing otherwise is just silly.


Best wishes

Simon

I'd love to see evidence of all these people thinking the a6 is a 'looker'..



Its a big grey bland forgettable german saloon.

Edited by daemon on Friday 29th January 21:14

with an awkwardly short gap between front and door and a terrible front overhang that they try to disguise by angling the front inwards. It's a terribly dull car to drive, compared with the 5 Series and even the E Class.

[Rocky Balboa]

My god does that look st! It's soooo bland and boring its making me go to sleep, like all german cars really! Boring and souless, where is the passion!?

[kiteless]

milesr3 said:

That. Will do. For me.

[Zod]

Rocky Balboa said:

My god does that look st! It's soooo bland and boring its making me go to sleep, like all german cars really! Boring and souless, where is the passion!?

Audi or BMW? Try to express yourself clearly.

Anyway, it appears that you believe all German cars to be dull, so that the GT2, GT3 and GT3 RS, Carrera GT, M3 GTS and CSL, SLR, SLS, R8, R8 V10 to name but a few are dull cars in your view.

What, pray do you drive that is so much more exciting than the above examples?

[HAB]

to this



sigh...

[gumsie]

daveco said:

Are the panel of executives in charge of BMW lobotomised by any chance?

Yes.

daveco said:

I like my BMW's but would never consider a new one. I'm with Chapman; The lighter the better!

Depends what you want. All else being equal, a heavy car will likely ride better than a light one.

[bennyboydurham]

I like it. It looks like a 5 Series, i.e a big 3 Series or indeed a smaller 7 Series. Although I hated the Bangled 5 and 7 when they first appeared, they've both grown on me since (an e65 is my daily drive) but like all BMWs they are very colour / wheel choice dependent. A black M5 looks very different to a 520i SE on poverty spec alloys.

The problem is that the design revolution overseen by Bangle has changed our expectations. At the time I remember BMW fans being incensed that the whole range looked different and that the designers had turned away from the hitherto 'photcopy 50% up/down' philosophy. To be fair to Bangle however, his better designs have aged well; the original Z4 still looks sharp and whilst the facelifted E65 isn't a pretty car but you can't deny that a black Sport 750i with 20" alloys has a mean road presence.

As for the competition, Jag still bothers me. The XF is a fine machine but the trails and tribulations of the mother company look set to be far from over. The A6 is blandomatic and the E Class looks like it melted in the sun, and you have to endure Mercedes famed customer 'service' to get one, which would put me off right at the start.

[kilarney]

Whatever happened to the elegant and desirable BMW,s of old. Nothing about this car makes me want to own it, I had three e39,s on the trot and havent owned one BMW since.

[Agent Orange]

Agoogy said:

Interesting how none of the competion need bodykits....
I'm not saying a well styled bodykit is a bad thing or even unwelcome on a Jag/Audi/Merc...they just don't need them like BMW does...

Not sure that's true.

Previously Audi and Mercedes etc. offered comfort and sport versions. Mercedes the Elegance for comfort and Avantgarde for sport. An Avantgarde Mercedes, personally, looked a dull car compared to the Avantgarde.

The difference appears to be that Audi and Mercedes have dropped their comfort options and all look like sport editions.

BMW conversely still offer the old mans SE spec as well as the Sport.

But for someone like myself thats irrelevant. I've never be drawn to the comfort model of any range and would always buy the sport model.

Edited by Agent Orange on Saturday 30th January 10:02

[anonymous-user]

I've owned a steady stream of E34 and E39 fives, including that M5 posted earler and now an E60 535d. There is no doubt that some things have improved. The engines get ever better - it's preposterous to think that my current diesel motor has more power and torque than the old hand-built M5 engine (and many more recent M engines) and yet a considerably more economical than the E39 520 it replaced. There is a lot of added lightness engineering in there too, like all alloy suspension since the E39 (now dropped with the F10), plastic wings and magnesium alloy engine blocks.

But some things have got worse. The quality and design of the interior is worse in the E60 than the E39 and the fashion for enormous diameter rims with misguided runflat tyres has ruined the ride and more recently, that they've compromised the dampers and bushes to accommodate runflats, has ruined the handling too. There is something wrong at the core of BMW, when they can produce a car that is dynamically flawed because people are more interested in what it looks like. I think that marketing has gotten in the way of engineering at BMW in recent years and they don't have a model that is head and shoulders ahead of the competition, like they did with the E39.

I've been invited to view the new 5 series at my dealer next week, but I'm not interested. I've finally got my 535d working very effectively after a remap and fitment of some non-runflat tyres. I think the new car is too expensive and it seems to be filling the brief of a seven series more than a five. I may move to a 3 series when I swap the current E60, after all they are as big as the E39 used to be. I have no interest whatsoever in the 5GT and all the other stupid niche marketed cars that they've churned out in recent years. A strong consideration would be the XF as it does look like the driving experience has been prioritised above a lot of other unnecessary stuff. Having experienced Jaguar/Land Rover customer care in the hands of Land Rover with my wife's Freelander2, it makes a change from my BMW dealer's utter incompetence too.

It would be fantastic if the F10 puts BMW at the top of the pile again, but I'm not convinced it will.

[Agoogy]

Agent Orange said:

Agoogy said:

Interesting how none of the competion need bodykits....
I'm not saying a well styled bodykit is a bad thing or even unwelcome on a Jag/Audi/Merc...they just don't need them like BMW does...

Not sure that's true.

Previously Audi and Mercedes etc. offered comfort and sport versions. Mercedes the Elegance for comfort and Avantgarde for sport. An Avantgarde Mercedes, personally, looked a dull car compared to the Avantgarde.

The difference appears to be that Audi and Mercedes have dropped their comfort options and all look like sport editions.

BMW conversely still offer the old mans SE spec as well as the Sport.

But for someone like myself thats irrelevant. I've never be drawn to the comfort model of any range and would always buy the sport model.

I didn't say they don't have them, I said they don't seem to [i]need[i/] them in the same way BMW does. Mostif not all conversations about new BMW's include the rationale that they look bland....so rospective buyers will wait for the M-Sport version. It appears as though people are much more accepting of standard Jags/Mercs and Audis, not necessarily having to have the big wheels and lip spoilers deeper front spoiler etc etc.
And to suggest that some Audi/Merc/Jag models don't appeal to the sporting market is ridiculous.