RE: Driven: The New BMW 5-Series

[Zod]

kambites said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

The majority of M5 buyers obviously want luxuries, even if it is an the expense of handling and/or performance (although I don't think you can accuse an M5 of being slow) or BMW wouldn't be heading in the direction they are.

Surely anyone who is really into driving would prefer to buy something smaller and more nimble at the expense of interior space and comfort anyway? The M3, for example.

Quite. Which is why talk about M5 CSLs is absurd. A lot of M5 owners will also have something a bit more focused in the garage, whether it's a Caterham or something not quite so full-on.

[daemon]

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

Yes, YOU dont. But then you're not what BMW perceive as a typical 5 series / M5 buyer.

An individual model cant be all things to all people.

[daemon]

kambites said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

The majority of M5 buyers obviously want luxuries, even if it is an the expense of handling and/or performance (although I don't think you can accuse an M5 of being slow) or BMW wouldn't be heading in the direction they are.

Surely anyone who is really into driving would prefer to buy something smaller and more nimble at the expense of interior space and comfort anyway? The M3, for example.

Yes, probably. It could well explain why the e92 m3 doesnt seem to have sold in the numbers the e46 did (that and the extortionate price jump!)

[daemon]

Agent Orange said:

LuS1fer said:

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

As the song goes "And the public wants what the public gets"

And the public can vote with their feet and not buy the F10. But i think they well. Whats the real alternatives? The E class and the XF. Neither of them are perfect and all of them offer different solutions. You pays your money...

[daemon]

Zod said:

kambites said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

The majority of M5 buyers obviously want luxuries, even if it is an the expense of handling and/or performance (although I don't think you can accuse an M5 of being slow) or BMW wouldn't be heading in the direction they are.

Surely anyone who is really into driving would prefer to buy something smaller and more nimble at the expense of interior space and comfort anyway? The M3, for example.

Quite. Which is why talk about M5 CSLs is absurd. A lot of M5 owners will also have something a bit more focused in the garage, whether it's a Caterham or something not quite so full-on.

+1

At the end of the day £70K is a lot to spend on an m5, when there is much more focused machinery about for much less, allowing you to have a weekend car and a daily runner.

[Zod]

When I take the family on a long trip, I like to have something fast. Just because it has four or five seats and a big boot doesn't mean it has to be a plodder.

As for the comment on E92 M3 sales vs E46, I have seen no evidence that this is true, but given the difference in economic background over the lives of both models it would be surprising if the E92 M3 had sold as many in its first two and a half years as the E46 did.

[kambites]

I see huge numbers of E92 M3s around here, probably more than E46s. Whether they're selling them to the same people, I don't know.

[LuS1fer]

daemon said:

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

Yes, YOU dont. But then you're not what BMW perceive as a typical 5 series / M5 buyer.

An individual model cant be all things to all people.

Actually, I am probably exactly who this car is aimed at. 50 year old professional. Given a choice, I'd buy the XF but still wouldn't really want all the guff.

[daemon]

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

Yes, YOU dont. But then you're not what BMW perceive as a typical 5 series / M5 buyer.

An individual model cant be all things to all people.

Actually, I am probably exactly who this car is aimed at. 50 year old professional. Given a choice, I'd buy the XF but still wouldn't really want all the guff.

I think to categorise yourself as a 50 year old professional does put you into their target market, BUT lets be honest, given your colourful (and impressive!) car history, you're not the type of guy to go out and buy a 520d or similar.

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 2nd February 11:24

[LuS1fer]

daemon said:

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

LuS1fer said:

daemon said:

CarbonM5 said:

My point still stands that if they cant make it lighter and better then why bother at all.

Surely that applies to all cars? Safety and emissions have a lot to do with it now, and we all expect our sat navs, electrics, climate control, idrives, etc and they all weigh heavily.

The public is getting what it wants.

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

Yes, YOU dont. But then you're not what BMW perceive as a typical 5 series / M5 buyer.

An individual model cant be all things to all people.

Actually, I am probably exactly who this car is aimed at. 50 year old professional. Given a choice, I'd buy the XF but still wouldn't really want all the guff.

I think to categorise yourself as a 50 year old professional does put you into their target market, BUT lets be honest, given your colourful (and impressive!) car history, you're not the type of guy to go out and buy a 520d or similar.

No but pre-E60, an M5 was very much always a possibility. I accept I may be a slight Luddite though I will learn to operate stuff I consider useful but equally don't bother with half the crap even on the basic Ford Mondeo "computer" as I could easily crash trying to remember sub-menus and options. I would be more than happy for no stereo, for example, with a simply jack for an MP3 and I love gizmos like electrically rotating vents and gearlevers that rise and fall and speakers that go up and down - what's not to like.. So all I'm saying is I like some toys but can easily live without them. Having a handbook the size of a Grattan catalogue would depress me.

[Skrambles]

LuS1fer said:

No but pre-E60, an M5 was very much always a possibility. I accept I may be a slight Luddite though I will learn to operate stuff I consider useful but equally don't bother with half the crap even on the basic Ford Mondeo "computer" as I could easily crash trying to remember sub-menus and options. I would be more than happy for no stereo, for example, with a simply jack for an MP3 and I love gizmos like electrically rotating vents and gearlevers that rise and fall and speakers that go up and down - what's not to like.. So all I'm saying is I like some toys but can easily live without them. Having a handbook the size of a Grattan catalogue would depress me.

I don't really understand the Clarkson-esque complaints about the computer on the e60 m5. Either you learn how to press 1 of 2 buttons (for SMG or dampers) to get the essentials how you want them, or you just press "M" when you want the most aggressive set-up. Big deal. Most of the time you can just ignore the computer and the car is as easy to use as the e46 M3.
If you want confusing, you should try a Merc - I was given a new CLK (in 2007) as a loan car while my m3 was being repaired and couldn't make head or tail of its nav or audio, and, more importantly, it drove like sh*te.

[Marto]

LuS1fer said:

Agent Orange said:

LuS1fer said:

I disagree. I don't want any of that sh*t. What I am being offered is what the manufacturers say I should want. To be honest, they are the exact reasons I won't buy this sort of car.

As the song goes "And the public wants what the public gets"

The Jam. Great song.

+1

[Zod]

LuS1fer said:

No but pre-E60, an M5 was very much always a possibility. I accept I may be a slight Luddite though I will learn to operate stuff I consider useful but equally don't bother with half the crap even on the basic Ford Mondeo "computer" as I could easily crash trying to remember sub-menus and options. I would be more than happy for no stereo, for example, with a simply jack for an MP3 and I love gizmos like electrically rotating vents and gearlevers that rise and fall and speakers that go up and down - what's not to like.. So all I'm saying is I like some toys but can easily live without them. Having a handbook the size of a Grattan catalogue would depress me.

You deprive yourself needlessly. The car comes with a card that tells you everything you need to know. After spending five minutes programming your favourite settings to the M button, you need never look at it again. The controls on my DB9's dash are far more complex and fiddly to use than on my M5.

[LuS1fer]

Zod said:

LuS1fer said:

No but pre-E60, an M5 was very much always a possibility. I accept I may be a slight Luddite though I will learn to operate stuff I consider useful but equally don't bother with half the crap even on the basic Ford Mondeo "computer" as I could easily crash trying to remember sub-menus and options. I would be more than happy for no stereo, for example, with a simply jack for an MP3 and I love gizmos like electrically rotating vents and gearlevers that rise and fall and speakers that go up and down - what's not to like.. So all I'm saying is I like some toys but can easily live without them. Having a handbook the size of a Grattan catalogue would depress me.

You deprive yourself needlessly. The car comes with a card that tells you everything you need to know. After spending five minutes programming your favourite settings to the M button, you need never look at it again. The controls on my DB9's dash are far more complex and fiddly to use than on my M5.

I am sure you're right but I don't like the E60, full stop. If they at least had the courtesy of reducing the price and leaving the gadgets off and market it as a more stripped-out car, the looks (for me) could possibly be mitigated. The E39 M5 was as good as it got for me. For me, a modern gadget-laden car is a whole wallet full of cash spent on stuff I don't want. It's like paying £3000 for a full-spec computer when all you want to do is e-mail.

PS. I know the world doesn't work like this - at least not outside of the US - except maybe a VXR8 at £25k is really what I would buy even though I don't like the looks of that either. I appreciate you have the premium/prestige angle to maintain but there you go. I was dismayed when they put tyre pressure sensors on the 2006 Mustang...

[Chicken Pox]

Disappointed, at least the 7 is ugly on first look, and for me anyway a grower in the flesh, this just looks bland. Hope the M Sport kit (presuming they bother with one) will give it a bit more of a distinctive look. They will sell in the shed loads to the lease/business market, at least it should drive down E60 prices so have more options when get rid of the Compact .

[Crusoe]

[LuS1fer]

Can anyone explain the mixing bowls in the bonnets on these new cars. I note the Megane has it too and it looks terrible IMHO. Is it some way of trying to circumvent the passenger safety minim height above hard points or something?

[daemon]

Crusoe said:

Granted, its a representation of what the m5 could look like, but I cant see how anyone can say that car looks dull...

[beanbag]

LuS1fer said:

Can anyone explain the mixing bowls in the bonnets on these new cars. I note the Megane has it too and it looks terrible IMHO. Is it some way of trying to circumvent the passenger safety minim height above hard points or something?

Perhaps the subtle curves on this car are more to your liking?

[LuS1fer]

beanbag said:

LuS1fer said:

Can anyone explain the mixing bowls in the bonnets on these new cars. I note the Megane has it too and it looks terrible IMHO. Is it some way of trying to circumvent the passenger safety minim height above hard points or something?

Perhaps the subtle curves on this car are more to your liking?

Hmm, what is it, a BMW 116d?