RE: Driven: The New BMW 5-Series
Discussion
topaz said:
I'm old enough to recal many 5 series launces and they all follow the same route. Gasps of disbelief when the car is first viewed, lots of bad press and 12 months later it's back at the top except of course at AUTOCAR or JAGUAR weekly as it's known here.
+1Same here.
I remember looking out of my university room (cell) window one day to a very early, brand new, E-Reg E34 drive past and thinking: "God! What have they done? It looks like a jelly-mould! BMW have gone all soft and round!"
I remember thinking the same the first time I saw an E30 replacing the E21.
But then a) we get used to things and b) they improve them.
A constant theme ( I don't know if it's still true?) was to always seemingly 'under-wheel/tyre' them on first presentation.
Having said that, rarely did I fall-over-backwards with such a resounding crash as when I first saw the E65 7-Series unveiled in the wake of the E38!
I'm still struggling to pick myself up off the canvas to this day and looking helplessly at my corner to throw in the towel after receiving that styling upper-cut!
derin100 said:
topaz said:
I'm old enough to recal many 5 series launces and they all follow the same route. Gasps of disbelief when the car is first viewed, lots of bad press and 12 months later it's back at the top except of course at AUTOCAR or JAGUAR weekly as it's known here.
+1Same here.
I remember looking out of my university room (cell) window one day to a very early, brand new, E-Reg E34 drive past and thinking: "God! What have they done? It looks like a jelly-mould! BMW have gone all soft and round!"
I remember thinking the same the first time I saw an E30 replacing the E21.
But then a) we get used to things and b) they improve them.
A constant theme ( I don't know if it's still true?) was to always seemingly 'under-wheel/tyre' them on first presentation.
Having said that, rarely did I fall-over-backwards with such a resounding crash as when I first saw the E65 7-Series unveiled in the wake of the E38!
I'm still struggling to pick myself up off the canvas to this day and looking helplessly at my corner to throw in the towel after receiving that styling upper-cut!
robsti said:
derin100 said:
topaz said:
I'm old enough to recal many 5 series launces and they all follow the same route. Gasps of disbelief when the car is first viewed, lots of bad press and 12 months later it's back at the top except of course at AUTOCAR or JAGUAR weekly as it's known here.
+1Same here.
I remember looking out of my university room (cell) window one day to a very early, brand new, E-Reg E34 drive past and thinking: "God! What have they done? It looks like a jelly-mould! BMW have gone all soft and round!"
I remember thinking the same the first time I saw an E30 replacing the E21.
But then a) we get used to things and b) they improve them.
A constant theme ( I don't know if it's still true?) was to always seemingly 'under-wheel/tyre' them on first presentation.
Having said that, rarely did I fall-over-backwards with such a resounding crash as when I first saw the E65 7-Series unveiled in the wake of the E38!
I'm still struggling to pick myself up off the canvas to this day and looking helplessly at my corner to throw in the towel after receiving that styling upper-cut!
But even that is : "She ain't purty, is she?...But she'll git y'all where ya wanna go!" ???
Zod said:
vintageracer01 said:
Zod said:
nonuts said:
I think the e60 is going to age very well next to this!
Were you one of the ones posting seven years ago that the E39 would age very well next to the E60?I knew I would find you and your sarcasm somewhere around here.
As far as I can see you don't like the new 5-series either. That's promising.
At the end you might be a quite likeable person, then?
PS have I been nasty to you at some stage? It's rarely personal.
Edited by Zod on Monday 8th February 15:12
(BTW, your German was unusally well written there. Do you have some German background or did you study or work there for a while?)
derin100 said:
Having said that, rarely did I fall-over-backwards with such a resounding crash as when I first saw the E65 7-Series unveiled in the wake of the E38!
I've always liked the first E65 and think BMW really messed it up when they facelifted it to look like a big 3-series, particularly with some of the wheel choices that were available. At least the E65 was original, much like the Z4 or E60 of the same era. I prefer the stark interior of my pre-LCI E60 to the facelifted one with all the extra buttons and silver heater controls. On paper the F10 just looks unoriginal compared to earlier efforts and I don't understand the need to make all the cars in the range look the same, like Ford used to in the 90s.vintageracer01 said:
Zod said:
vintageracer01 said:
Zod said:
nonuts said:
I think the e60 is going to age very well next to this!
Were you one of the ones posting seven years ago that the E39 would age very well next to the E60?I knew I would find you and your sarcasm somewhere around here.
As far as I can see you don't like the new 5-series either. That's promising.
At the end you might be a quite likeable person, then?
PS have I been nasty to you at some stage? It's rarely personal.
Edited by Zod on Monday 8th February 15:12
(BTW, your German was unusally well written there. Do you have some German background or did you study or work there for a while?)
Anyway, I've softened on the XFR. I like the shape and its dynamics, but I still hate the headlamps and the detailing.
derin100 said:
robsti said:
derin100 said:
topaz said:
I'm old enough to recal many 5 series launces and they all follow the same route. Gasps of disbelief when the car is first viewed, lots of bad press and 12 months later it's back at the top except of course at AUTOCAR or JAGUAR weekly as it's known here.
+1Same here.
I remember looking out of my university room (cell) window one day to a very early, brand new, E-Reg E34 drive past and thinking: "God! What have they done? It looks like a jelly-mould! BMW have gone all soft and round!"
I remember thinking the same the first time I saw an E30 replacing the E21.
But then a) we get used to things and b) they improve them.
A constant theme ( I don't know if it's still true?) was to always seemingly 'under-wheel/tyre' them on first presentation.
Having said that, rarely did I fall-over-backwards with such a resounding crash as when I first saw the E65 7-Series unveiled in the wake of the E38!
I'm still struggling to pick myself up off the canvas to this day and looking helplessly at my corner to throw in the towel after receiving that styling upper-cut!
But even that is : "She ain't purty, is she?...But she'll git y'all where ya wanna go!" ???
When the E60 came out I thought it was a Gargoil!
Zod said:
vintageracer01 said:
Zod said:
vintageracer01 said:
Zod said:
nonuts said:
I think the e60 is going to age very well next to this!
Were you one of the ones posting seven years ago that the E39 would age very well next to the E60?I knew I would find you and your sarcasm somewhere around here.
As far as I can see you don't like the new 5-series either. That's promising.
At the end you might be a quite likeable person, then?
PS have I been nasty to you at some stage? It's rarely personal.
Edited by Zod on Monday 8th February 15:12
(BTW, your German was unusally well written there. Do you have some German background or did you study or work there for a while?)
Anyway, I've softened on the XFR. I like the shape and its dynamics, but I still hate the headlamps and the detailing.
But, hey, then there is room for improvement for the face-lift.
However, 510 bhp for a reasonable price, a very balanced and purposeful design included, and an interesting interior with some pantomime (air vents, blue light, gear knob), brilliant suspension and brakes and finally a proper V8 exhaust noise is a serious proposition!
For the moment, I do not see that any other competitor comes close to this overall offer. And they have to work hard to come up with a better product within the next 7+ years, I assume. Perhaps, you might see my point a bit.
Zod said:
I think it would be better with a more dynamic gearbox...
I don't think you'll find a better utilisation of the ZF6HP28 Auto Gearbox in the whole industry. Jag have done a brilliant job of integrating the german box, shifts are very, very swift. This box is shared with some E60 5-er BMW, so you'll not be defecting too far... It is personal choice as to whether this is better than an SMG - but having driven one - BMW's solution is a clunker in comparison.Zod - test drive it in the XFR and get the useless sales oik to demonstrate "Dynamic mode" - then the potential of the whole powertrain is fully released in the Jag.
Zod said:
It's autoboxes in general that I don't like. I know the BMW boxes, the Aston TouchTronic 2 box. They are all very impressive, but give a feeling of detachment.
And an SMG doesn't? That's interesting.I have largely the same feelings but lump SMG type 'boxes in with autos.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th February 12:36
No, no, no! I feel scarcely less connected through the gearbox drinving the M5 compared with the DB9. That is why so many people complain about SMG. It feels very much the same as a manual change and you can make it smooth or rough in much the same way, excpet that you are not directly controlling the clutch. It's difficult to explain and needs proper experience with the box to understand.
I'm boudn to end up with an auto or a dsg type box soon enough though as that is the way the world is going.
I'm boudn to end up with an auto or a dsg type box soon enough though as that is the way the world is going.
The 5 Series has never been a sports car or any sort, apart from the E12 M535i and the E28 M5. But that was all a very long time ago now.
The E12 was a nicely made middle order saloon.. With a six cylinder engine it went well, was a bit tail happy and had a BMW character echoed from the 2002 and E9 Coupes. The 528i and M535i were pretty quick but could get you into real trouble in the wet. Ask me how I know............
The E28 was more of the same. Dull four cylinders, smooth unremarkable 520i/525i, fastish 528i and pretty good 535i. Overall better to drive than a W123 Merc and hardly a looker - old fashioned and conservative in 1982, 'classic' now of course. The M5 was probably the last exciting 5 Series, but it wasn't designed to sell 30'000 a year so it was a case of 'if you don't like it, p1ss off'.
The E34 smoothed off all the rough edges in the E28 handling. Heavier, better ride, foolproof but not remotely exciting unless you had a manual 540i. The M5 was fast but really a well made sledgehammer. No E34 could be described as nimble but they were a nice car. The fact that they're worth 10p and a button now reflects that they were just a nice car, nicer than Mercs but that was about it.
The E39 wasn't as robust as the E34 but they were very good really and a lot better that the horrid bug eyed E Class. Compared to the E34 is was a a bit of a fat labrador but it was very competent with a lovely interior. As an M Sport it was an excellent car, especially the 530i manual. The M5 was a bit of a tank, but is really preferable to the E60. So fast and so useable with no s
tronic flappy paddle nonsense with 12 speeds and 'look at me' air vents in the wings.
The early E60 was - and remains - a shed on wheels. They were an utter abortion with a 1989 Mitsubishi interior that used plastics that would have been more suitable in a Renault Trafic van, plus the styling with the 16 inch wheels was laughable. In one fell swoop BMW took their well made interiors with logical controls and perfect finish and destroyed it. Unless yo have nav, the i-drive is still an utter pain in the arse. The M5 is just technical overkill on wheels with stupid running costs. Yes it's fast, but that's all it is.
The E60 drives well of course, but 535d apart they're no faster or better handling than the last E39 and the fuel economy is strangely unimpressive on the diesels. The ridiculous Dame Edna headlights and rear end styling that looks like an E39 wearing a pair of tights (bank robber style), big bland doors, massive rear overhang and the silly jutted out chin of the M Sport won't be missed by me.
The later ones were better in some ways. The repositioned window switches were an improvement, the stupid 2007 onwards play station gearlever was not. BMW love to take something is meaty and intuitive as the old 1996-2007 autoshifter and replace it with something that looks impressive to a 12 year old but is really a bit crap. Like the electronic handbrake, this electronic gearlever is just going to be another warranty claim. I've driven a lot of E60's and whilst I concede that it's a good car, I have absolutely no love for them. They just aren't as nice as the E39.
F10. Doesn't look that great in the pics but it's very good in the flesh. Interior quality has gone back up a notch and whilst the steeing might not entertain the keenest, in reality it's perfectly okay in everyday driving situations. The F10 is the new E39. It's a nicely finished middle order saloon that has conservative styling, a very good ride, drives nicely (as good as anything else) and - if you look at the price lists - is pretty good value. The 520d when it arrives as a customer order car in mid year will be under 30k with standard leather and 180-odd bhp. Jaguar don't offer anything to compete.
Autocarp love a controversial 'Merc beats BMW' story but on reality street, there's nothing in it. They are as good as each other and which you buy is down to personal preferences and how good your dealer is. Same with the XF which is an exceptionally good effort.
BMW's are at their best as base models - a 320d M Sport manual for instance. Light and nimble, no i-drive crap, quick, enough equipment, cheap to run and enjoyable to drive. I've had more fun driving billy-basic 318d ES snotters than big spec stuff.
The E12 was a nicely made middle order saloon.. With a six cylinder engine it went well, was a bit tail happy and had a BMW character echoed from the 2002 and E9 Coupes. The 528i and M535i were pretty quick but could get you into real trouble in the wet. Ask me how I know............
The E28 was more of the same. Dull four cylinders, smooth unremarkable 520i/525i, fastish 528i and pretty good 535i. Overall better to drive than a W123 Merc and hardly a looker - old fashioned and conservative in 1982, 'classic' now of course. The M5 was probably the last exciting 5 Series, but it wasn't designed to sell 30'000 a year so it was a case of 'if you don't like it, p1ss off'.
The E34 smoothed off all the rough edges in the E28 handling. Heavier, better ride, foolproof but not remotely exciting unless you had a manual 540i. The M5 was fast but really a well made sledgehammer. No E34 could be described as nimble but they were a nice car. The fact that they're worth 10p and a button now reflects that they were just a nice car, nicer than Mercs but that was about it.
The E39 wasn't as robust as the E34 but they were very good really and a lot better that the horrid bug eyed E Class. Compared to the E34 is was a a bit of a fat labrador but it was very competent with a lovely interior. As an M Sport it was an excellent car, especially the 530i manual. The M5 was a bit of a tank, but is really preferable to the E60. So fast and so useable with no s
tronic flappy paddle nonsense with 12 speeds and 'look at me' air vents in the wings.The early E60 was - and remains - a shed on wheels. They were an utter abortion with a 1989 Mitsubishi interior that used plastics that would have been more suitable in a Renault Trafic van, plus the styling with the 16 inch wheels was laughable. In one fell swoop BMW took their well made interiors with logical controls and perfect finish and destroyed it. Unless yo have nav, the i-drive is still an utter pain in the arse. The M5 is just technical overkill on wheels with stupid running costs. Yes it's fast, but that's all it is.
The E60 drives well of course, but 535d apart they're no faster or better handling than the last E39 and the fuel economy is strangely unimpressive on the diesels. The ridiculous Dame Edna headlights and rear end styling that looks like an E39 wearing a pair of tights (bank robber style), big bland doors, massive rear overhang and the silly jutted out chin of the M Sport won't be missed by me.
The later ones were better in some ways. The repositioned window switches were an improvement, the stupid 2007 onwards play station gearlever was not. BMW love to take something is meaty and intuitive as the old 1996-2007 autoshifter and replace it with something that looks impressive to a 12 year old but is really a bit crap. Like the electronic handbrake, this electronic gearlever is just going to be another warranty claim. I've driven a lot of E60's and whilst I concede that it's a good car, I have absolutely no love for them. They just aren't as nice as the E39.
F10. Doesn't look that great in the pics but it's very good in the flesh. Interior quality has gone back up a notch and whilst the steeing might not entertain the keenest, in reality it's perfectly okay in everyday driving situations. The F10 is the new E39. It's a nicely finished middle order saloon that has conservative styling, a very good ride, drives nicely (as good as anything else) and - if you look at the price lists - is pretty good value. The 520d when it arrives as a customer order car in mid year will be under 30k with standard leather and 180-odd bhp. Jaguar don't offer anything to compete.
Autocarp love a controversial 'Merc beats BMW' story but on reality street, there's nothing in it. They are as good as each other and which you buy is down to personal preferences and how good your dealer is. Same with the XF which is an exceptionally good effort.
BMW's are at their best as base models - a 320d M Sport manual for instance. Light and nimble, no i-drive crap, quick, enough equipment, cheap to run and enjoyable to drive. I've had more fun driving billy-basic 318d ES snotters than big spec stuff.
Victor101 said:
The 5 Series has never been a sports car or any sort, apart from the E12 M535i and the E28 M5. But that was all a very long time ago now.
The E12 was a nicely made middle order saloon.. With a six cylinder engine it went well, was a bit tail happy and had a BMW character echoed from the 2002 and E9 Coupes. The 528i and M535i were pretty quick but could get you into real trouble in the wet. Ask me how I know............
The E28 was more of the same. Dull four cylinders, smooth unremarkable 520i/525i, fastish 528i and pretty good 535i. Overall better to drive than a W123 Merc and hardly a looker - old fashioned and conservative in 1982, 'classic' now of course. The M5 was probably the last exciting 5 Series, but it wasn't designed to sell 30'000 a year so it was a case of 'if you don't like it, p1ss off'.
The E34 smoothed off all the rough edges in the E28 handling. Heavier, better ride, foolproof but not remotely exciting unless you had a manual 540i. The M5 was fast but really a well made sledgehammer. No E34 could be described as nimble but they were a nice car. The fact that they're worth 10p and a button now reflects that they were just a nice car, nicer than Mercs but that was about it.
The E39 wasn't as robust as the E34 but they were very good really and a lot better that the horrid bug eyed E Class. Compared to the E34 is was a a bit of a fat labrador but it was very competent with a lovely interior. As an M Sport it was an excellent car, especially the 530i manual. The M5 was a bit of a tank, but is really preferable to the E60. So fast and so useable with no stronic flappy paddle nonsense with 12 speeds and 'look at me' air vents in the wings.
The early E60 was - and remains - a shed on wheels. They were an utter abortion with a 1989 Mitsubishi interior that used plastics that would have been more suitable in a Renault Trafic van, plus the styling with the 16 inch wheels was laughable. In one fell swoop BMW took their well made interiors with logical controls and perfect finish and destroyed it. Unless yo have nav, the i-drive is still an utter pain in the arse. The M5 is just technical overkill on wheels with stupid running costs. Yes it's fast, but that's all it is.
The E60 drives well of course, but 535d apart they're no faster or better handling than the last E39 and the fuel economy is strangely unimpressive on the diesels. The ridiculous Dame Edna headlights and rear end styling that looks like an E39 wearing a pair of tights (bank robber style), big bland doors, massive rear overhang and the silly jutted out chin of the M Sport won't be missed by me.
The later ones were better in some ways. The repositioned window switches were an improvement, the stupid 2007 onwards play station gearlever was not. BMW love to take something is meaty and intuitive as the old 1996-2007 autoshifter and replace it with something that looks impressive to a 12 year old but is really a bit crap. Like the electronic handbrake, this electronic gearlever is just going to be another warranty claim. I've driven a lot of E60's and whilst I concede that it's a good car, I have absolutely no love for them. They just aren't as nice as the E39.
F10. Doesn't look that great in the pics but it's very good in the flesh. Interior quality has gone back up a notch and whilst the steeing might not entertain the keenest, in reality it's perfectly okay in everyday driving situations. The F10 is the new E39. It's a nicely finished middle order saloon that has conservative styling, a very good ride, drives nicely (as good as anything else) and - if you look at the price lists - is pretty good value. The 520d when it arrives as a customer order car in mid year will be under 30k with standard leather and 180-odd bhp. Jaguar don't offer anything to compete.
Autocarp love a controversial 'Merc beats BMW' story but on reality street, there's nothing in it. They are as good as each other and which you buy is down to personal preferences and how good your dealer is. Same with the XF which is an exceptionally good effort.
BMW's are at their best as base models - a 320d M Sport manual for instance. Light and nimble, no i-drive crap, quick, enough equipment, cheap to run and enjoyable to drive. I've had more fun driving billy-basic 318d ES snotters than big spec stuff.
Why does weight always come into any topic about any car?The E12 was a nicely made middle order saloon.. With a six cylinder engine it went well, was a bit tail happy and had a BMW character echoed from the 2002 and E9 Coupes. The 528i and M535i were pretty quick but could get you into real trouble in the wet. Ask me how I know............
The E28 was more of the same. Dull four cylinders, smooth unremarkable 520i/525i, fastish 528i and pretty good 535i. Overall better to drive than a W123 Merc and hardly a looker - old fashioned and conservative in 1982, 'classic' now of course. The M5 was probably the last exciting 5 Series, but it wasn't designed to sell 30'000 a year so it was a case of 'if you don't like it, p1ss off'.
The E34 smoothed off all the rough edges in the E28 handling. Heavier, better ride, foolproof but not remotely exciting unless you had a manual 540i. The M5 was fast but really a well made sledgehammer. No E34 could be described as nimble but they were a nice car. The fact that they're worth 10p and a button now reflects that they were just a nice car, nicer than Mercs but that was about it.
The E39 wasn't as robust as the E34 but they were very good really and a lot better that the horrid bug eyed E Class. Compared to the E34 is was a a bit of a fat labrador but it was very competent with a lovely interior. As an M Sport it was an excellent car, especially the 530i manual. The M5 was a bit of a tank, but is really preferable to the E60. So fast and so useable with no s
tronic flappy paddle nonsense with 12 speeds and 'look at me' air vents in the wings.The early E60 was - and remains - a shed on wheels. They were an utter abortion with a 1989 Mitsubishi interior that used plastics that would have been more suitable in a Renault Trafic van, plus the styling with the 16 inch wheels was laughable. In one fell swoop BMW took their well made interiors with logical controls and perfect finish and destroyed it. Unless yo have nav, the i-drive is still an utter pain in the arse. The M5 is just technical overkill on wheels with stupid running costs. Yes it's fast, but that's all it is.
The E60 drives well of course, but 535d apart they're no faster or better handling than the last E39 and the fuel economy is strangely unimpressive on the diesels. The ridiculous Dame Edna headlights and rear end styling that looks like an E39 wearing a pair of tights (bank robber style), big bland doors, massive rear overhang and the silly jutted out chin of the M Sport won't be missed by me.
The later ones were better in some ways. The repositioned window switches were an improvement, the stupid 2007 onwards play station gearlever was not. BMW love to take something is meaty and intuitive as the old 1996-2007 autoshifter and replace it with something that looks impressive to a 12 year old but is really a bit crap. Like the electronic handbrake, this electronic gearlever is just going to be another warranty claim. I've driven a lot of E60's and whilst I concede that it's a good car, I have absolutely no love for them. They just aren't as nice as the E39.
F10. Doesn't look that great in the pics but it's very good in the flesh. Interior quality has gone back up a notch and whilst the steeing might not entertain the keenest, in reality it's perfectly okay in everyday driving situations. The F10 is the new E39. It's a nicely finished middle order saloon that has conservative styling, a very good ride, drives nicely (as good as anything else) and - if you look at the price lists - is pretty good value. The 520d when it arrives as a customer order car in mid year will be under 30k with standard leather and 180-odd bhp. Jaguar don't offer anything to compete.
Autocarp love a controversial 'Merc beats BMW' story but on reality street, there's nothing in it. They are as good as each other and which you buy is down to personal preferences and how good your dealer is. Same with the XF which is an exceptionally good effort.
BMW's are at their best as base models - a 320d M Sport manual for instance. Light and nimble, no i-drive crap, quick, enough equipment, cheap to run and enjoyable to drive. I've had more fun driving billy-basic 318d ES snotters than big spec stuff.
What difference does a few kilos of Satnav make onto the driving experience of a 320d?
As I had registered an interest in one of these when they first appeared on the BMW website i had a personal invite to go and view the new car before it release in March,so poped along to Sytner Sutton Coldfield yesterday and i have to say i was mighty impressed. The car does look to have followed the 3 for its styling queues but it is a very resolved design IMO. The interior was excellent, it did have the sports seat option fitted (the car was a 535 Sport) but they felt very good and the range of adjustment was impressive also. Apparently BMW expect to sell around 80% of this cars production with a diesel engine, and around 80% of those will be the 520, which personally is the one i would be allowed though my company car scheme, apparently all cars come with leather and the additional HMI screen although i dont think they will all have sat-nav as std. Due to the way the dash as slightly angled to the driver and the fact that the seat can be lowered almost to the floor the car feels smaller than it is when you are behind the wheel. All in all i will be looking forward to being able to order one of these in the comming months, when the contract on my 320D SE runs out. The E Class is and impressive design also but i just dont think the numbers stack up the way they do woth the 5, the BIK rate is 18% on the 520D which is very impressive, and makes it cheaper or should i say moretax efficient than a top spec Mondeo with comparable spec and engine.
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