Running on Vegetable oil ?
Discussion
Went to Costco in Reading today.
In the car park a dark coloured BMW 120d was parked in the corner well out of the way.
Whilst i sat in the car eating my lunch - i noticed a young guy come out of costco with a KTC 20 litre can of vegetable oil walking towards the BMW.
He then proceded to pour the oil into the tank and then drove off.
Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that newer diesels could not run on this type of fuel. Would the car have been converted in some way?
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
In the car park a dark coloured BMW 120d was parked in the corner well out of the way.
Whilst i sat in the car eating my lunch - i noticed a young guy come out of costco with a KTC 20 litre can of vegetable oil walking towards the BMW.
He then proceded to pour the oil into the tank and then drove off.
Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that newer diesels could not run on this type of fuel. Would the car have been converted in some way?
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
Ray Singh said:
Went to Costco in Reading today.
In the car park a dark coloured BMW 120d was parked in the corner well out of the way.
Whilst i sat in the car eating my lunch - i noticed a young guy come out of costco with a KTC 20 litre can of vegetable oil walking towards the BMW.
He then proceded to pour the oil into the tank and then drove off.
Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that newer diesels could not run on this type of fuel. Would the car have been converted in some way?
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
ktc , khera trading company In the car park a dark coloured BMW 120d was parked in the corner well out of the way.
Whilst i sat in the car eating my lunch - i noticed a young guy come out of costco with a KTC 20 litre can of vegetable oil walking towards the BMW.
He then proceded to pour the oil into the tank and then drove off.
Correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that newer diesels could not run on this type of fuel. Would the car have been converted in some way?
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
Ray Singh said:
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Probably, only problem is cold starting, better run with a mix of diesel and veg oil, say 50/50, then maybe 70/30 in warmer weather. Plus you have to change the fuel filter after the first 1000 miles beacuase the veg oil strips all the crap from the fuel tank.Ray Singh said:
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
No, should run quieter. Modern high pressure diesels it can kill the fuel pump and/or injectors, but your Audi is the older type (I think, maybe you should check that before you try any veg oil in there)Ray Singh said:
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
Yes, sort of, I can't remember the exact figure, but you are allowed to use a certain amount annually before you have to register to pay fuel duty, and the chances of being pulled for it are minimal, unlike red diesel(agricultural, non duty) which is illegal to use in a road car.Edited by Strawman on Friday 19th February 22:23
Edited by Strawman on Friday 19th February 22:24
Strawman said:
Ray Singh said:
Can my 51 plate b6 Audi A4 1.9tdi be run on this fuel without modifications?
Probably, only problem is cold starting, better run with a mix of diesel and veg oil, say 50/50, then maybe 70/30 in warmer weather. Plus you have to change the fuel filter after the first 1000 miles beacuase the veg oil strips all the crap from the fuel tank.Ray Singh said:
Is there any detremental effect on the car or on performance?
No, should run quieter. Modern high pressure diesels it can kill the fuel pump and/or injectors, but your Audi is the older type (I think, maybe you should check that before you try any veg oil in there)Ray Singh said:
Is this legal as i guess he isnt paying the fuel duty or vat (is food stuff excempt from VAT?).
Yes, sort of, I can't remember the exact figure, but you are allowed to use a certain amount annually before you have to register to pay fuel duty, and the chances of being pulled for it are minimal, unlike red diesel(agricultural, non duty) which is illegal to use in a road car.Edited by Strawman on Friday 19th February 22:23
Edited by Strawman on Friday 19th February 22:24
Modern diesel engines with either unit injectors or common rail must not be run on veg oil. It will kill the pumps and injectors very quickly and will cause damage as soon as the oil hits the injector due to lack of lubrication and increased viscosity. The ammount of moisture in veg oil is also very high which will cause problems. A twin tank will not overcome these problems. Bio-diesel is also not a good idea.
For your audi it depends on if it is the PD or non PD version. If PD then do not run on veg oil for the reasons above. If non PD then it should be fine. I ran one for 20K on neat oil and was fine. Just remember that it will kill the fuel pump and will slowley block the injectors. You will need to change the fuel filter regularly aswell. The old indirect injection (pug 405 ect) will run on it neat with no serious problems related altall.
HTH.
ETA: Sorry, read your post wrong. Thought you were saying that running the BMW on veg oil was fine.
Also, the max limit for personal use is 2500L per year.
Edited by TheLurker on Saturday 20th February 00:53
To simplify, diesel is like a - with the "-" being 15 carbons long, with associated hydrogens. something like +++++++++++++++ This is what diesel is like and how it burns best.
You can approximate this with veg oil, but veg oil has 3 of these chains linked together like a capital E. This is all well and good, as all you squirt into the engine is a hydrocarbon which will burn in oxygen and release energy. All these people who say "Naaaaaa" are ignoring this chemical fact. It works.
Veg oil is also an amazing lubricant. You can get a diesel to run Kerosene, this does not have lubricating properties and will cause an injector pump to wear out quick. You get around this by adding 15% vegetable oil.
The problem with veg oil (the E's) is that they get tangly when cold. Properly tangly, gloopy and they don't want to flow, get squashed or sprayed. When it's cold and you try and make viscous oil go through a pump, the back pressure is huge. Cue the pump shearing it's drive shaft. This is what happens and why if you do it when it's too cold, you will kill your car. The alternative is to bugger about reacting the E's into 3X - by a reaction known as transesterification which involves a strong alkali. Sadly, if you have any residual alkali, this will react with aluminium parts of your engine....
It's best to run blends. I hate diesels, but recognise their necessity. Lucas CAV pumps are particularly prone to shearing shafts and don't like gloopy oil. I will therefore run 1/3 fresh veg oil, 1/3 kerosene and 1/3 derv. This will balance price with reliability.
TP (Chemist)
You can approximate this with veg oil, but veg oil has 3 of these chains linked together like a capital E. This is all well and good, as all you squirt into the engine is a hydrocarbon which will burn in oxygen and release energy. All these people who say "Naaaaaa" are ignoring this chemical fact. It works.
Veg oil is also an amazing lubricant. You can get a diesel to run Kerosene, this does not have lubricating properties and will cause an injector pump to wear out quick. You get around this by adding 15% vegetable oil.
The problem with veg oil (the E's) is that they get tangly when cold. Properly tangly, gloopy and they don't want to flow, get squashed or sprayed. When it's cold and you try and make viscous oil go through a pump, the back pressure is huge. Cue the pump shearing it's drive shaft. This is what happens and why if you do it when it's too cold, you will kill your car. The alternative is to bugger about reacting the E's into 3X - by a reaction known as transesterification which involves a strong alkali. Sadly, if you have any residual alkali, this will react with aluminium parts of your engine....
It's best to run blends. I hate diesels, but recognise their necessity. Lucas CAV pumps are particularly prone to shearing shafts and don't like gloopy oil. I will therefore run 1/3 fresh veg oil, 1/3 kerosene and 1/3 derv. This will balance price with reliability.
TP (Chemist)
I filter my own used oil, mix it with about 10 - 15% diesel this time of year, My old 250D loves it.
As said if your not one for regular filter changing or your paranoid about your new car being damaged then its not for you.
I personally don't agree with running new oil through a car as it is now nearly as much as pump diesel thanks to lazy people like the guy you saw at the cash and carry.
As said if your not one for regular filter changing or your paranoid about your new car being damaged then its not for you.
I personally don't agree with running new oil through a car as it is now nearly as much as pump diesel thanks to lazy people like the guy you saw at the cash and carry.
Edited by Mk2 Jim on Saturday 20th February 08:23
I have a 1999 Mercedes E300TD which is essentially the same engine as the non-turbo E300 Mercedes of the 80s/90s and hence an older diesel powerplant.
Giving serious consideration to putting straight veg oil (SVO) in my car. Just wondering if its a common rail type engine and will develop problems.
Any help/advice would be great.
Many thanks in advance.
Giving serious consideration to putting straight veg oil (SVO) in my car. Just wondering if its a common rail type engine and will develop problems.
Any help/advice would be great.
Many thanks in advance.
wormburner said:
NastyNick74 said:
And the tax considerations......?
None to pay until your 2501st litre of the year.SVO from a shop runs ok, but I prefer to blend it with normal DERV around 50/50. I run straight diesel in winter. You'll get some white smoke on start up and smell of chips
I keep my recent receipts, but I figure since I rarely do more than 12,000 miles a year and with the allowance at 2500 litres of veg/bio a year, I'd have to do around 17,000 miles before duty became payable. My theory is if asked I'd just show them my mot proving the mileage from the last year showing that I would've used less than my allowance, if that makes sense...
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