RE: Driven: The All-New Jaguar XJ

RE: Driven: The All-New Jaguar XJ

Author
Discussion

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
vintageracer01 said:
kambites said:
Your own figures put a Jaguar as the most reliable non-Japanese model.

JD Power put them second overall as a manufacturer: http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability...

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th March 20:29
Thanks for the statistics. I find this very interesting.

But I do not understand why British people consistently bash and batter their own car industry
so much, even when this industry is turning out great machines as the current Jaguars, Bentleys,
Rolls, Lotus, Astons and more?

Why harm your own industry and put own employment at risk by spreading untrue rumours?

This does not seem very smart to me.
Perhaps in part it is an historical distaste and dislike. British Leyland and other car makers were the only cars we had in the 70s. Oh that and Ford with the escort and the cortina and others. Then we discovered the 80's and as soon as we could afford a choice we moved to German cars. BMW and Audi were the saviour of middle England and aspiring middle england. English cars was seen as second rate few young up and coming gents and lasses would want an XRsomething when they could have a 325i or a quattro. And that mindset has pretty much stayed in England. We traded up when we got richer in the 80's and we saw homegrown as cack. The products might well have moved on, the perception by many has not.

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
Agoogy said:
Drederick Tatum said:
Has anyone been inside the new XJ? Does it do all the funky stuff the XF does?
cool blue lighting everywhere and LCD display instead of dials that can be tailored/changed to display the info you want.... I think this is the first time this tech has been applied to a production car?

Don't think it has the silly rising gear changing knob though....
Surely the Lexus LS400 was the first car with solid state instruments? That was eons ago.
The Jag instruments are quite different from the Lexus's. In the Lexus the markings and needles were illuminated, and that was really cool twenty years ago. In the Jag the whole panel is a TFT screen, which can display different stuff. Actually, the Merc S class is similar, with the speedo displayed on a TFT panel which can also become a display for the night vision system (which the Jag does not offer) but the Jag's TFT panel is much bigger.

I like the XF interior which I find modern and fresh. I find the XJ interior has the same quality of being modern and fresh, but it is also far more luxurious, with much higher quality materials. The gear knob is an example - it is similar, but seems much higher quality. (The XJ does not have the rotating vents). I found the XJ interior really special. I am still not sure about the exterior.

Question - if you wanted to spend £60k on a Jag, would it be better spent on an XFR or a diesel XJ?

Benjybh

1,937 posts

178 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
Just one change I would make - get rid of that white section of the rear light cluster, it makes the car look cross-eyed.






shoestring7

6,138 posts

245 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
drivin_me_nuts said:
Perhaps in part it is an historical distaste and dislike. British Leyland and other car makers were the only cars we had in the 70s. Oh that and Ford with the escort and the cortina and others. Then we discovered the 80's and as soon as we could afford a choice we moved to German cars. BMW and Audi were the saviour of middle England and aspiring middle england. English cars was seen as second rate few young up and coming gents and lasses would want an XRsomething when they could have a 325i or a quattro. And that mindset has pretty much stayed in England. We traded up when we got richer in the 80's and we saw homegrown as cack. The products might well have moved on, the perception by many has not.
It doesn't sound as if you were there. You've neglected to mention the impact the Japanese had. Toyotas and Datsuns may have been basic designs, but they proved that you could have reliable transport and 'extras' like radios for a normal person's budget. They took chunks out of the BL/Ford/Chrysler/Vauxhall market, even with a gentleman's agreement limiting sales to 10% of the market.

The Germans marques were very small in scale in the 70's. Mercedes rare and very expensive. BMW had yet to define the compact exec with the 3-series and 5-series, Audi's aero 100 was a bit odd, the model before limited in its bauhaus appeal. Both had tiny dealer networks - I can hardly remember seeing one on the road and my father's 1972 E3 BMW 2500 was an exotic - the nearest dealer miles away. VW were just getting over their rear engined days with the launch of the Golf, Polo and Passat, and were about as middle England as they got.

However, other continental brands such as Renault (5, 12, 20/30), Fiat and Citroen (127, 128, 131 + GS/GSA), Lancia, Peugeot (204/5, 304, 405, 604) had good sales, and Alfa's Sud range redefined fwd driving pleasure.

In this market, Rover SD1's, and Jaguar's XK's were great products, doomed because only because of poor build quality, mixed dealer experiences (often selling all BL products) and often with supply problems due to industrial (in)action.

BTW, later on I knew plenty of young chaps who wanted XR3s - they were great cars, and XR2's were good cheap fun. Their competitors were Golf Gti's, R5turbo's, Astra Gsi's and Peugeot 205gti's, not BMW325's. And Audi Quattro's cost a bloody fortune (lhd only at first); 911 money.

SS7

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
shoestring7 said:
drivin_me_nuts said:
Perhaps in part it is an historical distaste and dislike. British Leyland and other car makers were the only cars we had in the 70s. Oh that and Ford with the escort and the cortina and others. Then we discovered the 80's and as soon as we could afford a choice we moved to German cars. BMW and Audi were the saviour of middle England and aspiring middle england. English cars was seen as second rate few young up and coming gents and lasses would want an XRsomething when they could have a 325i or a quattro. And that mindset has pretty much stayed in England. We traded up when we got richer in the 80's and we saw homegrown as cack. The products might well have moved on, the perception by many has not.
It doesn't sound as if you were there. You've neglected to mention the impact the Japanese had. Toyotas and Datsuns may have been basic designs, but they proved that you could have reliable transport and 'extras' like radios for a normal person's budget. They took chunks out of the BL/Ford/Chrysler/Vauxhall market, even with a gentleman's agreement limiting sales to 10% of the market.

The Germans marques were very small in scale in the 70's. Mercedes rare and very expensive. BMW had yet to define the compact exec with the 3-series and 5-series, Audi's aero 100 was a bit odd, the model before limited in its bauhaus appeal. Both had tiny dealer networks - I can hardly remember seeing one on the road and my father's 1972 E3 BMW 2500 was an exotic - the nearest dealer miles away. VW were just getting over their rear engined days with the launch of the Golf, Polo and Passat, and were about as middle England as they got.

However, other continental brands such as Renault (5, 12, 20/30), Fiat and Citroen (127, 128, 131 + GS/GSA), Lancia, Peugeot (204/5, 304, 405, 604) had good sales, and Alfa's Sud range redefined fwd driving pleasure.

In this market, Rover SD1's, and Jaguar's XK's were great products, doomed because only because of poor build quality, mixed dealer experiences (often selling all BL products) and often with supply problems due to industrial (in)action.

BTW, later on I knew plenty of young chaps who wanted XR3s - they were great cars, and XR2's were good cheap fun. Their competitors were Golf Gti's, R5turbo's, Astra Gsi's and Peugeot 205gti's, not BMW325's. And Audi Quattro's cost a bloody fortune (lhd only at first); 911 money.

SS7
Agreed, the point I was trying to make, albeit not so well was that for many, English cars stopped being aspirational products.

briancorish

186 posts

183 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
. If I was in this market, the Quattroporte would still get my money.

[/quote]

Except that a 1998 XJR is as fast and more refined... Apart from the looks and the noise, I found the Quattroporte to be a bit all fur coat no knickers...

LuS1fer

41,085 posts

244 months

Wednesday 10th March 2010
quotequote all
I do think the tail-lights are a bit Japanese but not fatal to the styling.

monthefish

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 11th March 2010
quotequote all
vintageracer01 said:
Thanks for the statistics. I find this very interesting.

But I do not understand why British people consistently bash and batter their own car industry
so much, even when this industry is turning out great machines as the current Jaguars, Bentleys,
Rolls, Lotus, Astons and more?

Why harm your own industry and put own employment at risk by spreading untrue rumours?

This does not seem very smart to me.
Good observation!!

ikarus

32 posts

283 months

Thursday 18th March 2010
quotequote all
vintageracer01 said:
But I do not understand why British people consistently bash and batter their own car industry
so much, even when this industry is turning out great machines as the current Jaguars, Bentleys,
Rolls, Lotus, Astons and more?

Why harm your own industry and put own employment at risk by spreading untrue rumours?

This does not seem very smart to me.
Interesting comment.

I guess it's the converse I was interested in - Brits supporting their cars because they're British, rather than because they're good.

We've been hearing that British car design left the quality issues behind since the mid 1980s (certainly, that was the comment about the XK40 when I was in Britain). Sadly, that comment seemed to have jumped the gun. I admit that I am a little biased as a result of my experiences with two Land Rovers (a Freelander (okay, I know that was a mistake) and an S2 Discovery). In the reports I was looking at, Land Rover came consistently near the bottom of reliability. I liked the Disco, but at no stage did all the bulbs work at the same time, it leaked oil on my driveway, was incredibly thirsty and the petrol cover never stayed closed without gaffer tape. But it did have character.

So, fine - the XF I saw with blown bulbs was an aberration (never mind that it is a brand new car, and seems to suffer from the same problem I had with my last British car). Jags are now well made - I get it. But to me, the new XJ looks wrong footed from the back (think Citroen) and from the front it looks Japanese (Legacy pic above). In terms of character, when I see Jags, I tend to think of a mix of unimaginative conservatism and Arthur Daley, which is a shame. When I was a kid, the Series 2 Jag was just about the coolest car in existence.

Each to his own, I guess. I do applaud the designers at Jag for trying, but I don't think the result really works. It would have been great if they'd been a little more adventurous.

Cheers

PS - I'm not British, by the way ...

JMGS4

8,733 posts

269 months

Thursday 18th March 2010
quotequote all
Interior looks good, Jag always were, BUT the car looks like a pregnant Peugeot 408, IMHO
I hope they've got the reliability sorted as my S-Type was as reliable as a politician, lied all the time. Said it was working but when you went to use it there was always another serious fault. Worst car I've ever had reliability-wise, and I'm including a Wartburg I had in 1972. That's the reason it'll never sell in any numbers) in the most important (i.e. critical) market, Germany.

RicksAlfas

13,355 posts

243 months

Thursday 18th March 2010
quotequote all
JMGS4 said:
That's the reason it'll never sell in any numbers) in the most important (i.e. critical) market, Germany.
confused
Surely they will be more worried about it selling in the USA than Germany?

Supersonic7

38 posts

177 months

Thursday 18th March 2010
quotequote all
RicksAlfas said:
JMGS4 said:
That's the reason it'll never sell in any numbers) in the most important (i.e. critical) market, Germany.
confused
Surely they will be more worried about it selling in the USA than Germany?
Agreed, the German market in the grand scale of things is not important to Jaguar, the US is number one priority as is the growth markets in Asia.

For the record, i reckon this will be the best selling XJ globally since the X300......

Regards

Supersonic


Drederick Tatum

1,033 posts

184 months

Thursday 18th March 2010
quotequote all
Supersonic7 said:
RicksAlfas said:
JMGS4 said:
That's the reason it'll never sell in any numbers) in the most important (i.e. critical) market, Germany.
confused
Surely they will be more worried about it selling in the USA than Germany?
Agreed, the German market in the grand scale of things is not important to Jaguar, the US is number one priority as is the growth markets in Asia.

For the record, i reckon this will be the best selling XJ globally since the X300......

Regards

Supersonic
Its the car the last XJ should have been, the X300 should have been the last to have the novelty classic lines, it did pull them of very well, the last XJ did not

monthefish

20,439 posts

230 months

Thursday 6th May 2010
quotequote all
Simply stunning...


fatboy b

9,492 posts

215 months

Thursday 6th May 2010
quotequote all
monthefish said:
Simply stunning...

yes - I agree twice-over there.

LuS1fer

41,085 posts

244 months

Thursday 6th May 2010
quotequote all
They are planning new interiors though...