RE: Watch The McLaren Launch Live On PH

[Alfie Noakes]

The story on the engine as I have heard it is:

Originally was going to be Merc based.
AMG kicked up a fuss.
Mclaren bought design of still born Indy engine from Menard http://www.mctuk.com/index.html
Mclaren asked Mahle to build it
Mclaren asked Ricardo to help out with the development of the engine and drive train.

The above has been confirmed by separate sources. With the exception of a bloke I met at a party who works on the project. He flatly denied it then scurried off to find someone else to talk to.

In may be that Mahle are not now building it. If that is the case I wonder who is.

[Liokault]

Alfie Noakes said:

The story on the engine as I have heard it is:

Originally was going to be Merc based.
AMG kicked up a fuss.
Mclaren bought design of still born Indy engine from Menard http://www.mctuk.com/index.html
Mclaren asked Mahle to build it
Mclaren asked Ricardo to help out with the development of the engine and drive train.

The above has been confirmed by separate sources. With the exception of a bloke I met at a party who works on the project. He flatly denied it then scurried off to find someone else to talk to.

In may be that Mahle are not now building it. If that is the case I wonder who is.

All correct, except Ricardo will be making the engine as well as developing and it will be differant to the Mahle unit, which Mclaren lost interest in after it became apparent that Mahle couldnt supply an engine which didnt blow up.

[Rich_W]

HeavySoul said:

Can you imagine a world where this country actually gets behind and supports their sports car brands like the Italians do behind theirs and don't just continually knock them?

This thing has not even been released for sale yet and yet half the people on here are convinced XYZ is not going to work properly or will be inferior!

This is a well designed, well performing sports car that is decently priced and will hit the ground running as serious competition for all those well established sports car brands on their first attempt - we have to be a bit more excited and pleased about it!

I think the majority of PH want the car to be great and better than the rivals. But there are several areas where it doesn't seem to measure up to our expectations. There are several reasons why this car is not better than it's current rivals. For me persoanlly, this is the 8/10 car. It could, SHOULD have been so much better than it appears it will be. (I'm basing that entirely on looks and spec)

I also find it laughable that you complain people knock the car without it being released. Yet, you are keen to praise it without it being released What happens if reviewers don't like it either?

Oh, and as for "first attempt" that's just silly.

[HeavySoul]

Rich_W said:

HeavySoul said:

Can you imagine a world where this country actually gets behind and supports their sports car brands like the Italians do behind theirs and don't just continually knock them?

This thing has not even been released for sale yet and yet half the people on here are convinced XYZ is not going to work properly or will be inferior!

This is a well designed, well performing sports car that is decently priced and will hit the ground running as serious competition for all those well established sports car brands on their first attempt - we have to be a bit more excited and pleased about it!

I think the majority of PH want the car to be great and better than the rivals. But there are several areas where it doesn't seem to measure up to our expectations. There are several reasons why this car is not better than it's current rivals. For me persoanlly, this is the 8/10 car. It could, SHOULD have been so much better than it appears it will be. (I'm basing that entirely on looks and spec)

I also find it laughable that you complain people knock the car without it being released. Yet, you are keen to praise it without it being released What happens if reviewers don't like it either?

Oh, and as for "first attempt" that's just silly.

Sorry I should of phrased it a bit better - by 'first attempt' I mean the first product under this new McLaren Automotive brand.

Undoubtedly I am keen to praise it - my whole point is that people should be more keen to praise it and projects like it before knocking them at the first hurdle. Of course once the car is for sale and gets tested by the journo's and it does not live up to the hype that is fair enough and justified, but just look at the various threads running on here about this car - there is so much negativity and people picking holes in the entire project already and I find that annoying and depressing in equal measures. We should be proud of having something to support that is from the UK.

It might not be a 10/10 car right now, but without embracing and promoting such projects, companies might not get the longevity to produce a 10/10 car in the future!

Edited by HeavySoul on Friday 19th March 18:55

[lesz42]

so, from some of the bad comments here on the new mclaren, its going to be a st car, not worth even thinking about? too slow, too old fashsioned? too heavy, crap build.

do any of these people, own a better car?



i like it

[Rich_W]

HeavySoul said:

I mean the first product under this new McLaren Automotive brand.

This is a mis-truth by Dennis. The vast majority of the team working on SLR was the same pre and post the name change. So it's technically true, but it makes the company seem much younger than it actually is. (circa 03 was the rebranding IIRC)

[Mazda Baiter]

I think a lot of the negative comments on this (and the other McLaren) thread(s) stem from the fact that people are looking at this car in the wrong way. Despite it being stated time and time again, they are still setting their expectations at McLaren F1 level. They are expecting a new McLaren F1. They wanted this car to have 3 seats, a V12 engine, they wanted it to be a Veyron beater.

That is not what this car is. This car is a super car, not a hyper car. It's competitors are the Ferrari 458, Lamborghini Gallardo etc, not the Zonda, Veyron, Konigsegg etc.

Once people get their expectations in the right place, they might start making sensible comments. Then they can get excited about the McLaren hyper car which will be the next offering from McLaren Automotive and after that, they can get excited about the McLarewn sports car which will be a direct competitor to the V8 Vantage, Porsche 911 etc.

[BSC]

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

Liokault said:

Alfie Noakes said:

BSC said:

Is it really true as mentioned earlier in this thread that the car is powered by a Mahle engine? Mahle is a German company. I can't imagine that the epitome of British sports car has a German engine. How to be proud of it then?

Info I have is that they manufacture it, but it's not thier design.

Its not been Mahle for a while, they kept blowing up.

Um what engine was in the F1??!

BMW V12.

Exactly!!

But it's not a Mahle engine, it's a Mclaren / Ricardo co-operation isn't it?

Also, remember Mahle bought Cosworth didn't they?

I don't know, my point was that BSC was saying he couldn't imagine the epitome of British sports cars having a German engine. The F1 seemed to garner a pretty grand following with its German engine!

Personally I don't really see the problem where the parts come from, this is a multinational modern world. Important thing is that it is designed here and built here which makes it British in my book - I wouldn't expect all the parts on a car to be sourced from the UK because otherwise it might turn out to just be a fast Rover

I agree.

I think it is a McLaren / Ricardo engine in this, so even that is UK too...

article said:

Even the engine is a 100 percent McLaren effort. The M838T is an intercooled, twin-turbo 3.8-liter V8 with variable valve timing and lift. The 90-degree V8 with its racing-style flat-plane crankshaft has been developed in partnership with Ricardo, the British powertrain specialists. The use of a dry-sump oiling system allows the crankshaft to be located at about the height of your shin, and the very low center of gravity enhances manueverability. The engine revs to 8,500 rpm, which is extremely high for a turbocharged engine.

McLaren claims a power output of about 600 horsepower and 443 pound-feet of torque.

Well, let's see the engine provenance with the eye of a customer who is in the market for a luxury timepiece. The choice is between a watch with a movement of the same manufacturer that puts all the parts of the watch together and another timepiece with a bought-in movement. In watch circles the one with the "manufacturers" own movement is more highly regarded than the one with a movement of someone else.

Put this in perspective and one could think that Ferrari and Porsche would be the Patek Philippe and Rolex of carmaking and McLaren the Vacheron or Ulysse Nardins.

[Shape Shifter]

simonrockman said:

Shape Shifter said:

simonrockman said:

It’s a shame there wasn’t a Q&A.

--- Simon

Shame for us. Journalists don't much like Q&As because if they have an incisive question, everybody else hears the answer, hence no exclusive. Q&As are usually only enjoyed by those journalists who want to showboat.

Edited by Shape Shifter on Thursday 18th March 19:21

I don't completely agree. Sometimes launch Q&As are the only opportunity you get to ask questions. Often they expose something the presenter was skirting around.

Although too often you get someone with a special interest missing the point.

A Q&A, taking the thing off-script, shows how well the speakers really know their product. One of the most impressive lunches I went to was with the CEO of a hard disk manufacturer. Around the table were journalists from lots of different disciplines, technical, consumer, financial. The CEO fully answered whatever was thrown at him, be it material science on the head flying height, marketing processes, distribution or his rivals P&L.

My original post was to complain aout the people here criticising the quality of the presentation. I'd bet Jon Delorean could have done a much better job of launching a car than Colin Chapman, but I know who would have a better understanding of what made the car.

Simon

Sitting with a designer or chief engineer at dinner or chatting afterwards in the bar is where you get the best info that's not always the party line. I've been to loads of press events where the same tiresome bores amongst the journalists always pipe up with questions not because they want to know the answer, but merely to show how clever/snarky/'considerably more technically savvy than yow' they are. Meanwhile, the rest of the audience are looking at their watches impatiently. Should you need to establish a speaker's bona fides publicly, then all well and good but otherwise there are more effective ways to gather information.

[Mazda Baiter]

BSC said:

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

bertie said:

HeavySoul said:

Liokault said:

Alfie Noakes said:

BSC said:

Is it really true as mentioned earlier in this thread that the car is powered by a Mahle engine? Mahle is a German company. I can't imagine that the epitome of British sports car has a German engine. How to be proud of it then?

Info I have is that they manufacture it, but it's not thier design.

Its not been Mahle for a while, they kept blowing up.

Um what engine was in the F1??!

BMW V12.

Exactly!!

But it's not a Mahle engine, it's a Mclaren / Ricardo co-operation isn't it?

Also, remember Mahle bought Cosworth didn't they?

I don't know, my point was that BSC was saying he couldn't imagine the epitome of British sports cars having a German engine. The F1 seemed to garner a pretty grand following with its German engine!

Personally I don't really see the problem where the parts come from, this is a multinational modern world. Important thing is that it is designed here and built here which makes it British in my book - I wouldn't expect all the parts on a car to be sourced from the UK because otherwise it might turn out to just be a fast Rover

I agree.

I think it is a McLaren / Ricardo engine in this, so even that is UK too...

article said:

Even the engine is a 100 percent McLaren effort. The M838T is an intercooled, twin-turbo 3.8-liter V8 with variable valve timing and lift. The 90-degree V8 with its racing-style flat-plane crankshaft has been developed in partnership with Ricardo, the British powertrain specialists. The use of a dry-sump oiling system allows the crankshaft to be located at about the height of your shin, and the very low center of gravity enhances manueverability. The engine revs to 8,500 rpm, which is extremely high for a turbocharged engine.

McLaren claims a power output of about 600 horsepower and 443 pound-feet of torque.

Well, let's see the engine provenance with the eye of a customer who is in the market for a luxury timepiece. The choice is between a watch with a movement of the same manufacturer that puts all the parts of the watch together and another timepiece with a bought-in movement. In watch circles the one with the "manufacturers" own movement is more highly regarded than the one with a movement of someone else.

Put this in perspective and one could think that Ferrari and Porsche would be the Patek Philippe and Rolex of carmaking and McLaren the Vacheron or Ulysse Nardins.

I didn't know that Rolex did oil leaks.

[simonrockman]

Shape Shifter said:

Sitting with a designer or chief engineer at dinner or chatting afterwards in the bar is where you get the best info that's not always the party line.

Of course. With the stock question of "if you to start the whole process again, what would you do differently", but you don't always get the opportunity. I too have been to many press conferences where hacks with too much self importance preface questions with "what my readers want to know is.."

Watching on PH we don't even get the chance to ask questions at the Q&A let alone collar anyone from the company, but it would still have been more informative to have seen the Q&A online than just the stuff that was scripted.

[V8Dom]

Hellbound said:

I spy the Top Gear race track...

yes same day the Ultima went round in 1.09 and smashed the schu / Enzo time...

Dom

[die fahrt]

great article on the MP4-12C here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...

[Alfie Noakes]

die fahrt said:

great article on the MP4-12C here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...

I just read that myself. I was impressed until he said the engine was designed in house.

[RacingPete]

die fahrt said:

great article on the MP4-12C here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...

Is it just me, or does anyone else just get an article on Panis form 2002 on that link?

[Mini1275]

RacingPete said:

die fahrt said:

great article on the MP4-12C here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...

Is it just me, or does anyone else just get an article on Panis form 2002 on that link?

Not just you...

[Munter]

Impressive toyota debut....

[die fahrt]

Hehe, oops.
try this:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...

[35secToNuvolari]

I'm bringing this thread back up. Here's a video I hadn't seen of the 12c. One gets to see some different colors on the car and a few peaks in the crevices. I love the alloy wishbones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kD9gH_EC4w

[simonrockman]

Do we know who the London dealer is yet?