RE: Watch The McLaren Launch Live On PH

[Syndrome]

I can't say for sure whether it will be any good or not, I've only seen it, not tested it. I'll have to take my mates word for the quality (or lack of) in the materials. I hope it does stick it to the Ferrari, but i just get the feeling it's going to be a massive let down, especially when compared to the F1.

[mackie1]

It can't be compared to the F1 (although it will be). The F1 costs (roughly adjuster for inflation) 6x more. It may well perform better but it won't ever be as special.

[Mazda Baiter]

Syndrome said:

Unfortunately it would appear Mclaren have tried to make a hypercar during a monster recession with the budget of a Kia Rio, so I doubt it'll be good enough to chalenge the Ferrari.

1. This isn't McLaren's attempt at a Hyper-car.
2. The recession has nothing to do with the way McLaren will have specced the car.
3. If this car costs as much as a Kia Rio, then I'll have 3.
4. Challenge has two "L"s in it.
5. Judging on the quality and ingenuity in most Ferraris, I don't think McLaren have a lot to worry about. Ferrari, on the other hand, should be shaking like a stting dog.

[10 Pence Short]

Syndrome said:

I can't say for sure whether it will be any good or not, I've only seen it, not tested it. I'll have to take my mates word for the quality (or lack of) in the materials. I hope it does stick it to the Ferrari, but i just get the feeling it's going to be a massive let down, especially when compared to the F1.

So what you are saying, is that you are taking the 'word of a mate' who has absolutely nothing to do with McLaren or the finished product or even cars, who happens to work in a composites company McLaren may or may not have used for composite production.

And you are choosing this over the experts who have put their many years of successful road and race car design, who are involved in every aspects of the cars design and production?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm with your mate all the way.

[mainaman]

What's with wrong with the CF on the Mclaren?

The tube is made of lower grade stuff and it's probably not as stiff,strong and light compared to,say,a Pagani tub,but it's still lighter and stiffer than the aluminium monocoque of the 458,while the body work is made of inexpensive CF reinforsed plastic,which is lighter than aluminium and glassfibre.

Just looking into the materials and the technology of the Mclaren i wonder how come the 911 GT2 and even the 458 can cost as much as the British supercar.

But it does look like the Farbio,a disappointing design for such an ambitious supercar

[Mazda Baiter]

mainaman said:

a disappointing design for such an ambitious supercar

I think that is the idea. Make it go under the footballist's radar. As soon as a footballer buys one, the company will have an image problem like Bentley now do. Less is more.

[Anubis]

Put that car in a candy apple red and slightly tint those windows and you're starting to get a real looker. The colour isn't doing any favours for the car in that picture.

Maybe a McLaren racing colours theme would make it more 'wow' on the eye too. I'd love to see it with bits of red and black on super shiney silver (but not so it looks tacky).

Edited by Anubis on Tuesday 16th March 17:19

[Beirut Taxi]

Mazda Baiter said:

5. Judging on the quality and ingenuity in most Ferraris, I don't think McLaren have a lot to worry about. Ferrari, on the other hand, should be shaking like a stting dog.

Ferrari will easily sell all the build slots allocated.

[stephen300o]

I think it looks more like an Ascari than Farboud, but McLaren have put more tech into this car for a fraction of the price of an Ascari.
Naturally(if given the financial opportunity) I'd take the F458.

[AJAX50]

Anything made of carbon fibre has to be designed so that the lay up of the carbon is best suited to the stresses in the area it is applied. The size, weave and direction of the fibres have to be chosen. Equally so the ratio of carbon to resin, the type of resin how it is cured all contribute to the strength. These are the things that McClaren will design to maximise strength and minimise weight, I suspect McClaren know how to optimise this. It's not just about the fibre used. Incidentally, the marine industry was well ahead of F1 in the use of carbon fibre, I had a carbon fibre/epoxy boat in 1985. You should see the stuff they do now with boats, look at the Americas Cup.

mainaman said:

What's with wrong with the CF on the Mclaren?

The tube is made of lower grade stuff and it's probably not as stiff,strong and light compared to,say,a Pagani tub,but it's still lighter and stiffer than the aluminium monocoque of the 458,while the body work is made of inexpensive CF reinforsed plastic,which is lighter than aluminium and glassfibre.

Just looking into the materials and the technology of the Mclaren i wonder how come the 911 GT2 and even the 458 can cost as much as the British supercar.

But it does look like the Farbio,a disappointing design for such an ambitious supercar

[Ahonen]

Syndrome said:

I can't say for sure whether it will be any good or not, I've only seen it, not tested it. I'll have to take my mates word for the quality (or lack of) in the materials. I hope it does stick it to the Ferrari, but i just get the feeling it's going to be a massive let down, especially when compared to the F1.

I can't comment on the 458, but from my office window I can see three of our 430 Scud racecars right now. Their 'quality' is always a source of amusement to their mechanics...

[Rich_W]

Beirut Taxi said:

I love this car. To me it shows why British engineering is the best in the world. Rather than just making parts "better", the British throw curve balls at their competitors by being inventive and positively different.

Not sure anything we've seen or been told about this car is "better" than Ferrari, Porsche or even BMW/Mercedes et al can do.

mainaman said:

Just looking into the materials and the technology of the Mclaren i wonder how come the 911 GT2 and even the 458 can cost as much as the British supercar.

Well that#s a good point actually. Porsche and Ferrari must get a discount on buying bulk on materials. And they are geared up far more efficiently to build cars. SLR took at least 2 week to get from one end of the production line to the other. Plus X numbers "rework" time. The other manufacturers product come off the line much faster.

Sooo, where will the cost saving come from? Materials I would guess if labour can't be reduced and obviously design costs have to be recouped somewhere. As do new production halls that need to be constructed as MTC isn't big enough.

I don't get the comparison with Ascari. It's clearly been influenced by the F360 (front bonnet) and the F458 (Grille) as well



v

[HeavySoul]

Could I suggest changing the thread title to include the MP4-12C part in it as I kept breezing past the thread in the 'What's New' list thinking it was a thread from January about the new F1 car launch - might get a bit more traffic

Exciting time ahead with the road cars I think - looking forward to Thursday!

[FraserLFA]

Rich_W said:

I don't get the comparison with Ascari.

Not look wise, but now it' been mentioned, they could be good competition. Both British, high performance etc etc.

[mark3man]

[quote=AJAX50]Anything made of carbon fibre has to be designed so that the lay up of the carbon is best suited to the stresses in the area it is applied. The size, weave and direction of the fibres have to be chosen. Equally so the ratio of carbon to resin, the type of resin how it is cured all contribute to the strength. These are the things that McClaren will design to maximise strength and minimise weight, I suspect McClaren know how to optimise this. It's not just about the fibre used. Incidentally, the marine industry was well ahead of F1 in the use of carbon fibre, I had a carbon fibre/epoxy boat in 1985. You should see the stuff they do now with boats, look at the Americas Cup.
[quote]

Ajax, your boat is positively modern - the first carbon fibre used on a racing bike was a pair of CF strengthened cranks in 1972.
You are absolutely correct - McLaren know what they are doing (although the nose isn't the most lovely thing......)

[mackie1]

Those wheels look a bit like something TSW made in the mid-90s too.

[bhja]

I spent a day hosted by Ron Dennis at McLaren last year as part of their capital raising efforts for the road car business. My observations in no particular order are : the business is now well funded and has a substantial budget. This is the first car, and to attain their 4000 annual unit sales McLaren plan a completely diffent entry level model and also a much lower volume super car. Their claims about quality are ambitious but they point to their record with the SLR, that had lower per unit warranty costs than Mercedes S class. They deliberately went for a more understated style than Ferrari however I must say that when they took the wraps off the car (for those who've been to Woking they did it in the SLR customer delivery room) I felt the reaction from those assembled was pretty muted ie the looks aren't by any means jaw dropping. According to McLaren then the 12C was significantly quicker than the 430, but at that time the 458 was not yet on the scene - we shall see. Personally I found the day inspirational in the quality, intelligence and attention to detail McLaren bring to everything but unsure if the technical excellence of the product will be sufficient to compensate for the relatively unexciting looks in the showroom.

[Mazda Baiter]

Beirut Taxi said:

Mazda Baiter said:

5. Judging on the quality and ingenuity in most Ferraris, I don't think McLaren have a lot to worry about. Ferrari, on the other hand, should be shaking like a stting dog.

Ferrari will easily sell all the build slots allocated.

I agree. Ferrari sales are made up of a few different types. Those who want to buy into the legend, those who want a high performance car, those who have a collection to add to and those that have more money than sense and want to be "seen" in a Ferrari. These last type are the sort of clientel that McLaren should avoid imho. Unfortunatly I don't think they will pick and choose (like Bristol cars do) but like I already stated in this thread, by the car not standing out like a turd on the white house, it will not appeal to those of a "bling" persuasion.

How many of the first run will they sell to F1 owners to get matching chassis numbers for the collection? I bet they are offered. Hmm, there's a question for Flemke.

[Rich_W]

bhja said:

... that had lower per unit warranty costs than Mercedes S class...

I don't doubt that's accurate. But it's a misleading statistic. It's much easier to build 1200 £330K cars properly than thousands of S Classes. In fact a Google shows there are more S65 AMGs than SLRs

SL 65 AMG Production

2005 651
2006 390
2007 144
2008 120

On a side note, SLR had a few engines let go and there was an "issue" with the rear diff at one point. But that was because it was the one from another Merc. IIRC either SL or S Class. Also that little thing about the Alternator setting fire to the car.Resulting in a safety upgrade/recall

[SonnyM]

How about a more positive post in this thread to say thank you to PH for covering this event for us, and we are looking forward to finding out what this car really is like in real life.

I look forward to seeing a PH McLaren forum also created at 10.30am on the same day. Thanks.