Tonkers Golf GTI Review.

[Welshbeef]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 18 March 2010 at 16:03

[10 Pence Short]

Are you going to elaborate as to why this is worth a whole new thread?

[V8mate]

The bit before the copy/paste of the review makes no sense whatsoever. Just a stream of random words.

[Dave_ST220]

10 Pence Short said:

Are you going to elaborate as to why this is worth a whole new thread?

To justify his purchase at a guess.

[GravelBen]

Welshbeef said:

...it really does show those who always say TDI's short rev range well read below no point reving beyond 5,500rpm... in a Turbo Petrol and clearly you need 2,000 to get motoring so really only a usable 3,500rpm...
Now look at say a 330d real pulling power from 1,300rpm up to peak power c4,500rpm so 3,200rpm... um so that puts to bed the issue of short rev ranges.

I'm sorry, did you have a point with that other than that one owner either finds the powerband of a golf narrow or prefers to short-shift?

For comparison my 2.0 turbo petrol is starting to make boost from 1600rpm and will happily hold it to 7500, with over 80% of peak torque available from 2000-6500rpm.

I know, I know, I shouldn't bite!

Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 18th March 10:26

[10 Pence Short]

[rb5230]

how sad. someone says its not "much" point revving it past 5500rpm, and a diesel junkie says wahay its no better than a diesel.

well unfortunately for you it will rev to 7k rpm, try that in your diesel, and it wont need 2000rpm to get going especially from a standing start, and it wont sound like a tractor. and it is probably not much less economical than a 335d.

[Uhura_Fighter]

Dave_ST220 said:

10 Pence Short said:

Are you going to elaborate as to why this is worth a whole new thread?

To justify his purchase at a guess.

Isn't that what derv buyers do?

ETA:

Edited by Uhura_Fighter on Thursday 18th March 10:27

[Dave200]

Welshbeef said:

See below for the review by Tonker - it really does show those who always say TDI's short rev range well read below no point reving beyond 5,500rpm... in a Turbo Petrol and clearly you need 2,000 to get motoring so really only a usable 3,500rpm...
Now look at say a 330d real pulling power from 1,300rpm up to peak power c4,500rpm so 3,200rpm... um so that puts to bed the issue of short rev ranges.

I'm sure you have a point, but it's buried somewhere among a stream of absolute b*llocks. Do you 'do' grammar?

[Beyond Rational]

I'm a fan of Diesels but this kind of nonsense winds everyone up.

[aka_kerrly]

Beyond Rational said:

I'm a fan of Diesels but this kind of nonsense winds everyone up.

Agree.
I'm nearly coming around to the idea of a diesel daily id never pretend that in real world driving a diesel is so great when clearly playing with a 3k or so power band versus howling past 7k rpm in a lively petrol is not even close to being the same.

My guess is diesel owners love the feeling of being pushed into your seat the moment you start accelerating for a breif moment then the power tails off where as others like myself much rather a spread of power all the way to the redline

[DrTre]

Can I ask, and it's a question not a hidden dig, but the "drops back into power band" statement...is that more of a "drops back onto the turbo coming in at full/noticeable pressure"? As in, is shortshifting really the best way to drive it, or will it be producing right up to the red line, in which case it's a preference of driving style (one that I find I like too) rather than a comment on the out and out power delivery.

[adycav]

I like the noise and the way that my car gathers pace at 7500-8000 rpm, for what it's worth.

[Welshbeef]

DrTre said:

Can I ask, and it's a question not a hidden dig, but the "drops back into power band" statement...is that more of a "drops back onto the turbo coming in at full/noticeable pressure"? As in, is shortshifting really the best way to drive it, or will it be producing right up to the red line, in which case it's a preference of driving style (one that I find I like too) rather than a comment on the out and out power delivery.

Basically the sensation of acceleration is the slope of the Torque graph which is why the TDi's feel fast and in those periods they are fast, if they had enough gears to keep changing up into that same torque slope then you have quite a machine.

Thing is the 4 banger TDI's do tail off however more cylinders always have better torque.

Sorry Im wandering.

[Chris_w666]

Is this a thread by WB using someone elses opinion to say that a 6 cylinder Turbo Diesel is better than a 4 cylinder Turbo Petrol?

[OnTheOverrun]

Welshbeef said:

aka_kerrly said:

Beyond Rational said:

I'm a fan of Diesels but this kind of nonsense winds everyone up.

Agree.
I'm nearly coming around to the idea of a diesel daily id never pretend that in real world driving a diesel is so great when clearly playing with a 3k or so power band versus howling past 7k rpm in a lively petrol is not even close to being the same.

My guess is diesel owners love the feeling of being pushed into your seat the moment you start accelerating for a breif moment then the power tails off where as others like myself much rather a spread of power all the way to the redline

Thing is you can push the 330d howling into 5,500rpm if you so wished too as it still has near on 200bhp at 5k revs so hardly wanting. But there are very few engines which have their peak power on the red line usually 500-750 revs before otherwise if it were not you'd never fully hit your max power or to do so you'd be entering the red part of the rev range & engine damage territory/limitor territory in which case your rate of acceleration falls off a cliff.

My car's petrol engine is very much like a diesel - turbo, intercooled, high pressure common-rail direct injection. The turbo wakes up at 1700rpm, is fully on song at 2400rpm and runs out of puff at 6500rpm. It's much nicer to use than the 330d I ran in 2006, but it uses more fuel. The 330d makes maximum torque at 1700rpm and max power at 4000rpm. It was pointless revving over 4k as all you got was a bit more smoke. I'm happy to spend a little more at the pumps to use a more rewarding engine, but not much more as I get 28mpg now and got 38mpg out of the 330d.

I'm glad you like your car, but please desist from running your own personal BMW diesel marketing campaign.

[havoc]

Chris_w666 said:

Is this a thread by WB using someone elses opinion to say that a 6 cylinder Turbo Diesel is better than a 4 cylinder Turbo Petrol?

D'y'think?!?

But lets compare apples with apples (as Becs owns a MkV GTi...):-
- Golf: Develops power from 2,000rpm, Tonker says "not worth revving past 5,500" (I disagree...the wife's redlines quite nicely), redlines at ~7,000rpm.
- Diesel: Develops power from c.1,500rpm, torque curve starts dropping-off before you get to 3,000rpm (so arguably no point revving it any further then), redlines at ~5,000rpm.

Now, which one would you say has the broader power-band?!?



Or, since we're all being "my car is best" here, lets play for a few seconds more...
- Integra: Develops power from <2,000rpm (I've had the 'teg pull happily in 4th from 1,300), torque curve doesn't start dropping until nearly 8,000rpm, redlines at 8,700rpm.

Do I win?!?

[HAB]

Strange, very very strange.

[jon-]

V8mate said:

The bit before the copy/paste of the review makes no sense whatsoever. Just a stream of random words.

[SJobson]

Welshbeef said:

this owner has shown that in real world driving there is little point to get above 5,500rpm

He said that it drops straight into the meat of the torque in the next gear, not that it's limited to 5,500rpm