RE: PH Heroes: Audi Quattro

[r11co]

Mermaid said:

This guy - Hans Lehmann?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_G._Lehmann

The very man!

[Mermaid]

r11co said:

Mermaid said:

This guy - Hans Lehmann?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_G._Lehmann

The very man!

Glad I could be of help

[Ahonen]

Straff99 said:

I think you're missing an important point here. The Audi Quattro is the car that ruined rallying forever. They sounded great but that's all. Four wheel drive is the equivalent of steroids in athletics; they merely lifted the bar until everyone else caught up. They didn't make the sport more exciting, quite the opposite. Check out the British Rally Championship. I went on the Bulldog rally a few weeks ago and, when the best of the Historics had been through, the spectators started to leave before the BRC arrived!! How's that for progress? Big, overweight, ill handling lumps of lard; that's why the Peugeot T16 blew them into the weeds.

You're not comparing like with like.

The T16 was much faster because it was a mid-engined, purpose-built, spaceframe chassis. The Quattro was a modified road car, initially built for Group 4 regulations, which never properly fitted into Group B against the specials like the RS200, T16 and S4. Even the S1 still had road car lineage because Audi saw rally cars as upgraded road cars.

Now to your point about them ruining the sport. How much longer do you think it would have been before some bright spark came up with the same idea if Audi hadn't done it? The era of Mk2 Escorts and Chevettes wasn't going to last forever - things move on. Rallying technology had barely changed for a decade and it was time for the next big step. Blame FISA for not closing the 4WD loophole after Audi enquired about it.

I'm surprised by your comments regarding its handling. Which version of the rally car did you drive or engineer? I ask because surely only an uninformed idiot would make a comment about the handling without direct experience.

[thehardman07]

I remember going to the Audi dealership in Bridgend (Sinclairs) a few years back and there was a white sport jutting out of the workshop. There were numerous rs' dotted about, but none had the presence or pull of the sport.

Anybody's on here?

[andy97]

Ahonen said:

Straff99 said:

I think you're missing an important point here. The Audi Quattro is the car that ruined rallying forever. They sounded great but that's all. Four wheel drive is the equivalent of steroids in athletics; they merely lifted the bar until everyone else caught up. They didn't make the sport more exciting, quite the opposite. Check out the British Rally Championship. I went on the Bulldog rally a few weeks ago and, when the best of the Historics had been through, the spectators started to leave before the BRC arrived!! How's that for progress? Big, overweight, ill handling lumps of lard; that's why the Peugeot T16 blew them into the weeds.

You're not comparing like with like.

The T16 was much faster because it was a mid-engined, purpose-built, spaceframe chassis. The Quattro was a modified road car, initially built for Group 4 regulations, which never properly fitted into Group B against the specials like the RS200, T16 and S4. Even the S1 still had road car lineage because Audi saw rally cars as upgraded road cars.

Now to your point about them ruining the sport. How much longer do you think it would have been before some bright spark came up with the same idea if Audi hadn't done it? The era of Mk2 Escorts and Chevettes wasn't going to last forever - things move on. Rallying technology had barely changed for a decade and it was time for the next big step. Blame FISA for not closing the 4WD loophole after Audi enquired about it.

I'm surprised by your comments regarding its handling. Which version of the rally car did you drive or engineer? I ask because surely only an uninformed idiot would make a comment about the handling without direct experience.

Agreed. Remember the competition at the time were Mk2 Escorts, Asconas, Lotus Sunbeams etc. And the quattro blew them away. The T16s, 6R4s, Integrales were second or third generation cars that only came about because of the quattro.

Whether we should still have 4WD rally crs now is anotherq uestion, but you can't deny the quattros place in car history.

[TheStig89]

Ahonen said:

Straff99 said:

I think you're missing an important point here. The Audi Quattro is the car that ruined rallying forever. They sounded great but that's all. Four wheel drive is the equivalent of steroids in athletics; they merely lifted the bar until everyone else caught up. They didn't make the sport more exciting, quite the opposite. Check out the British Rally Championship. I went on the Bulldog rally a few weeks ago and, when the best of the Historics had been through, the spectators started to leave before the BRC arrived!! How's that for progress? Big, overweight, ill handling lumps of lard; that's why the Peugeot T16 blew them into the weeds.

You're not comparing like with like.

The T16 was much faster because it was a mid-engined, purpose-built, spaceframe chassis. The Quattro was a modified road car, initially built for Group 4 regulations, which never properly fitted into Group B against the specials like the RS200, T16 and S4. Even the S1 still had road car lineage because Audi saw rally cars as upgraded road cars.

Now to your point about them ruining the sport. How much longer do you think it would have been before some bright spark came up with the same idea if Audi hadn't done it? The era of Mk2 Escorts and Chevettes wasn't going to last forever - things move on. Rallying technology had barely changed for a decade and it was time for the next big step. Blame FISA for not closing the 4WD loophole after Audi enquired about it.

I'm surprised by your comments regarding its handling. Which version of the rally car did you drive or engineer? I ask because surely only an uninformed idiot would make a comment about the handling without direct experience.

You hit the nail right on the head there! I was just about to write something along similar lines in regards to the 4WD development where if Audi hadn't brought it in another manufacturer would have, he is also not looking at how th introduction if 4WD spawned some of the greatest production cars of our time!
Numerous cars we all love and admire today have 4WD or AWD as some companys may call it, and all these cars wouldn't be quite as far along if Audi didn't have the innovation to produce a 4WD road car, Vorsprung durch Technik as it is said by the geniuses! The introduction of 4WD revolutionised the auto world we live in today.

Not to mention the fact that the S1 Quattro developed for pikes peak managed to destroy records on it's first trip up, and then again on it's second and third!

[Ahonen]

TheStig89 said:

Not to mention the fact that the S1 Quattro developed for pikes peak managed to destroy records on it's first trip up, and then again on it's second and third!

What really upset the Americans in '84 was that this funny looking German car had turned up (without a V8...), driven by a French woman and soundly beaten all the locals with their years of experience and specially built cars.

Great days.

[dapprman]

Turbobanana said:

dapprman said:

Turbobanana said:

It was a lower case "q" in quattro, wasn't it?

Not on the rally cars and their homologation road cars, only where it was the 4x4 equivalent to one of their 'regular' cars.

Perhaps we should tell this lot...

http://www.quattroownersclub.com/

Have I got it the wrong way round then ? - the 'real' quattro's use the lower case q and the 4wd versions of the 'regular' models use the upper case Q ?

I know for certain the rally/homolagation version was spelled with the opposite case of Q from the regular production cars.

[Dangermouse78]

Ahonen said:

TheStig89 said:

Not to mention the fact that the S1 Quattro developed for pikes peak managed to destroy records on it's first trip up, and then again on it's second and third!

What really upset the Americans in '84 was that this funny looking German car had turned up (without a V8...), driven by a French woman and soundly beaten all the locals with their years of experience and specially built cars.

Great days.

Not to mention that they actually made her start the run up PP out of her car!! They timed her from before the engine was running & she STILL thrashed the time!!!

[Cock Womble]

monthefish said:

There is (was?) one of these on display at Glasgow Audi.

There's a couple on display at Audi's small showroom in Chiswick too. Always makes a drive into London via the A4 worthwhile.

Edited by Cock Womble on Tuesday 6th April 18:25

[SJobson]

Oops - that's a Coupe, not an Ur-quattro.

Love the Fuchs forged alloys; why were they so rare on the UK cars?

Edited by SJobson on Tuesday 6th April 19:51

[petrolveins]

SJobson said:

Oops - that's a Coupe and not even necessarily a quattro version.

Love the Fuchs forged alloys; why were they so rare on the UK cars?

That particular pic is an Audi Coupe quattro, just lacking some flared wheel arches and a turbo.

[SJobson]

petrolveins said:

That particular pic is an Audi Coupe quattro, just lacking some flared wheel arches and a turbo.

You quoted me before I enlarged the pic and saw the badge, but the point is, it's no more a Quattro than an 80 quattro, for instance.

[Zad]

One day I will have one. They deserve to be PH heroes on their engine sound alone! To say it made an impression on a young boy in a North Yorkshire forest in a dark winter's night is probably a slight understatement.

Not only was it an Englishman that designed it, but a Yorkshireman too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Smith_%28desig...

If only Audi were to realise what a styling grammar they own, and dump this one-shape-fits-all goatee beard look that they are obsessed with.

[EvoSlayer]

SJobson said:

Oops - that's a Coupe, not an Ur-quattro.

Love the Fuchs forged alloys; why were they so rare on the UK cars?

Edited by SJobson on Tuesday 6th April 19:51

I think the Fuchs alloys were only on the earier quattros, the later ones and most coupes had the Ronals as in the picture.

[skeggysteve]

Had one years ago, brought it second hand and was told it was the 3rd one imported into the UK.
Don't know if that was true but it was LHD and had a MPH speedo.

What I do know is that it was a fantastic car!
You had to adapt your driving style to allow for the turbo lag - get onto the throttle as you enter the corner so the power comes on as you are in the corner/exiting it - once you got used to that it would just grip and go round corners at silly speeds.
Get on the throttle late and it would understeer but not that badly if I remember correctly.
Get on the throttle a touch to early and it would oversteer, controllable and very nice!

When getting parts from the dealer I got used to asking for coupe parts not quatrro parts - there was a difference in price!

I only sold it because I knew that one day I would have an accident and due to the speed it was capable of it would be a big accident.
Still wish I'd not been so sensible!

[EvoSlayer]

I'm not that sensible, bought my 20v in '94 and still got it......oh well...

[Crimp a Length!]

awesome cars

[mikEsprit]

One of these showed up in my neighborhood back when I had a paper route. It was neat, but it didn't get the reverence that the author indicates, at least not from me or my friends or anyone I know.

The 70 GTO? yes. The new 84 Vette? yes. The 65 fastback mustang? yes The new Quattro? no

Edited by mikEsprit on Tuesday 13th April 00:31

[mattyb123]

awesome car! absolutely adore quattro's... BRING BACK GROUP B!! ha