RE: Officially official: BMW 1-series M for 2011
Discussion
You think 1500kg is "light enough" for a "small" coupe? Escort Si-130 said:
It was obvious BMW would do this, after all Audi is coming out with the RS3, so BMW dont want to be 'done over'
I just hope that BMW make a proper M car rather than a fancy looking tuned 135 .... Whilst the Audi will carry the RS badge, I'd wager that it won't be as "RS" as previous performance derivatives.aeropilot said:
CraigGTI6 said:
This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...
Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....
BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.
So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.
mat205125 said:
Escort Si-130 said:
It was obvious BMW would do this, after all Audi is coming out with the RS3, so BMW dont want to be 'done over'
I just hope that BMW make a proper M car rather than a fancy looking tuned 135 .... Whilst the Audi will carry the RS badge, I'd wager that it won't be as "RS" as previous performance derivatives.I think a 6-pot is the right way to go, given the size of the car.
But I wish they'd used the old 3.2 n/asp M-lump not a variant of the 3.0TT. Granted emissions wouldn't have been as good but FFS this is an M-car - emissions are mandatory (and ideally as loud as possible)!
Given their recent history though ("M-division" alloys on evo's 135i which weigh barely any less than the standard items, for example), I can't see this being a lightweight special, more an opportunity to bolt MORE stuff on and sell it for as much as possible...
But I wish they'd used the old 3.2 n/asp M-lump not a variant of the 3.0TT. Granted emissions wouldn't have been as good but FFS this is an M-car - emissions are mandatory (and ideally as loud as possible)!
Given their recent history though ("M-division" alloys on evo's 135i which weigh barely any less than the standard items, for example), I can't see this being a lightweight special, more an opportunity to bolt MORE stuff on and sell it for as much as possible...
Rusty-C said:
aeropilot said:
CraigGTI6 said:
This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...
Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....
BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.
So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.
kambites said:
mat205125 said:
Escort Si-130 said:
It was obvious BMW would do this, after all Audi is coming out with the RS3, so BMW dont want to be 'done over'
I just hope that BMW make a proper M car rather than a fancy looking tuned 135 .... Whilst the Audi will carry the RS badge, I'd wager that it won't be as "RS" as previous performance derivatives.could still do with loosing a few pounds though
if Porsche can make cars weighing under 1400kgs why can't BMW?!Rusty-C said:
aeropilot said:
CraigGTI6 said:
This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...
Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....
BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.
So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.
Slight error in translation: no carbon roof for the M5
Original article reads: "Leichtbaukonzepte – wie etwa das Karbondach beim aktuellen M3 Coupés – schloss Dr. Segler aufgrund der Größe des 5ers allerdings aus."
= No implementation of lightweight concepts, such as a carbon roof, due to the size of the new 5 series.
Original article reads: "Leichtbaukonzepte – wie etwa das Karbondach beim aktuellen M3 Coupés – schloss Dr. Segler aufgrund der Größe des 5ers allerdings aus."
= No implementation of lightweight concepts, such as a carbon roof, due to the size of the new 5 series.
Edited by florian on Thursday 3rd June 13:06
chippy17 said:
kambites said:
mat205125 said:
Escort Si-130 said:
It was obvious BMW would do this, after all Audi is coming out with the RS3, so BMW dont want to be 'done over'
I just hope that BMW make a proper M car rather than a fancy looking tuned 135 .... Whilst the Audi will carry the RS badge, I'd wager that it won't be as "RS" as previous performance derivatives.could still do with loosing a few pounds though
if Porsche can make cars weighing under 1400kgs why can't BMW?!Basically, given the dimensions, I just want BMW to make me a replacement for my E46 M3 .... I consider the current M3 a great car, but it has got too big.
I pray that BMW is more protective over its M\\\ brand than Mercedes has been with their AMG brand ..... bit of tinsel and a whopping great power increase does not make a performance car IMO
aeropilot said:
Rusty-C said:
aeropilot said:
CraigGTI6 said:
This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...
Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.
This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.
This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?
Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....
BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.
So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.
The reality is that a light weight version without the toys doesn't sell. Look at the R26R. EVO rate its handling better than any current M car at any price. Why haven't all the people on this thread wanting a light-weight version bought one? They want the BMW badge and/or the premium feel of a German barge.
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