RE: Officially official: BMW 1-series M for 2011

[kambites]

In many ways I think AMG have held more true to their ethos than M. AMGs have pretty much always been about shoehorning a huge engine into everything they can get their hands on, recently the M division seem to have started copying them.

[shantybeater]

Great news, i'll be test driving this when its out

[alexpa]

Are they planning on changing it's face so it looks less like a dog?

[DJC]

alock said:

aeropilot said:

Rusty-C said:

aeropilot said:

CraigGTI6 said:

This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...

Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.

This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.

This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?

While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.

Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....

BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.

So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.

Safety legislation prevents cars being light? Can’t help but feel the manufacturers are feeding us a yarn – race cars are light and I know what I’d rather crash in.

Just proves you have no clue about road car design.

It's not as black and white as weight is due to safety regs. There are enough threads on PH about people who like the premium quality feel of a BMW. Go and take an electric, memory, heated, cooled, leather seat out of any premium brand car and then tell me the excessive weight is due to safety regs.

The reality is that a light weight version without the toys doesn't sell. Look at the R26R. EVO rate its handling better than any current M car at any price. Why haven't all the people on this thread wanting a light-weight version bought one? They want the BMW badge and/or the premium feel of a German barge.

Speak for yourself.

I think its because people think it is dog ugly and 99 out of 100 married men who brought one home and then told her he just handed over £25k of their money would be divorced within the month.

[Fittster]

Ne0 said:

Fittster said:

It will be interesting to see how it's priced, hopefully around 35K.

Hopefully but given that a poverty spec 135i is about £30k, BMW will more than likely be looking c45k for this...

That would seem rather optimistic as it puts it head to head against a Cayman S.

[pSyCoSiS]

Too many M versions of cars, IMHO.

However, they will defnitely sell them, there will be a market waiting to snap them up.

How BMW seem to have lost the pedigree and passion that the M Cars of old (namely E30 M3) possessed.....

[nobodyknows]

surely this could be the spiritual successor to the M3 - small, light(ish), powerful & FUN (hopefully)! I would certainly be very interested in a coupe if they get it right

[alock]

DJC said:

alock said:

aeropilot said:

Rusty-C said:

aeropilot said:

CraigGTI6 said:

This car will be a horrible compromise, as BMW will not want to make a car that's cheaper and better than their M3...

Why didn't they have the balls to stick to the tii concept and drop a nice revvy 4 cylinder motor in this car? Like a road legal version of the WTCC engine? Put it on a massive weight saving program and create a bespoke chassis, like the original E30 M3 and spend a while tuning the suspension, steering etc to perfection.

This is not a proper M car, just another half baked PR exercise from some young middle manager type who thinks he knows what an M car should be.

This could have been such a good car (I'm not saying that it'll be a bad car per se) and with petrol prices the way they are, who wants a 3 litre six? In this market segment a 120tii would surely have been a massive hit. I would have aspired to owning a lightweight, hardcore 120tii or whatever they may have called it but this? No thanks, pointless and cynical. Who runs the M department these days?

While I agree in theory......I doubt it's actually achievable in practice.

Safety legislation means it's going to be heavy.....no way would they be able to shave 2-300kg's off a 1er coupe to get down to E30 weight levels, and a 300hp n/a four cyl engine is not going to make emissions rules, which would mean you'd have as many prospective owners complaining that it not fast enough/equiped enough/whatever enough to be a real ///M .....

BMW will alienate potential owners either way, either from the it's not hardcore enough blah, blah or it's not got Sat Nav, leccy seats, quad exhausts, 50 million ///M badges etc., blah, blah.

So, I suspect they view that there's less potential 'hardcore' owners.....hence you end up with a compromise.

Safety legislation prevents cars being light? Can’t help but feel the manufacturers are feeding us a yarn – race cars are light and I know what I’d rather crash in.

Just proves you have no clue about road car design.

It's not as black and white as weight is due to safety regs. There are enough threads on PH about people who like the premium quality feel of a BMW. Go and take an electric, memory, heated, cooled, leather seat out of any premium brand car and then tell me the excessive weight is due to safety regs.

The reality is that a light weight version without the toys doesn't sell. Look at the R26R. EVO rate its handling better than any current M car at any price. Why haven't all the people on this thread wanting a light-weight version bought one? They want the BMW badge and/or the premium feel of a German barge.

Speak for yourself.

I think its because people think it is dog ugly and 99 out of 100 married men who brought one home and then told her he just handed over £25k of their money would be divorced within the month.

If you upped the price by £20K, you comment applies to the suggestions of a light weight M1. The same mythical wife you talk about wouldn't accept an M1 costing £10K more than a 135 unless it matches it with kit and creature comforts.

[Mr Whippy]

I'd take a 125Ci (or 130i in 3dr if you can find one!), upgrade engine to 3.0 NA valvetronic spec, add a decent M-type diff from an older model, and go from there.

350bhp in a heavy car really isn't all THAT much...

300bhp of NA screamer (relatively speaking) in a lighter car though, much more interesting


DIY performance cars these days make much more sense, BMW just seem to make big-power sports cars, but ignore the market for mid-range price/performance sports cars these days.

Dave

[Gizmo!]

Fittster said:

Ne0 said:

Fittster said:

It will be interesting to see how it's priced, hopefully around 35K.

Hopefully but given that a poverty spec 135i is about £30k, BMW will more than likely be looking c45k for this...

That would seem rather optimistic as it puts it head to head against a Cayman S.

Sounds about right. 360-380bhp, RWD, LSD, and with back seats it'll be slightly heavier but slightly more practical than the Cayman.

[Zod]

Gizmo! said:

Fittster said:

Ne0 said:

Fittster said:

It will be interesting to see how it's priced, hopefully around 35K.

Hopefully but given that a poverty spec 135i is about £30k, BMW will more than likely be looking c45k for this...

That would seem rather optimistic as it puts it head to head against a Cayman S.

Sounds about right. 360-380bhp, RWD, LSD, and with back seats it'll be slightly heavier but slightly more practical than the Cayman.

and quicker if the seats are folded down.

[geoffracing]

Oddball RS said:

Really leaves me cold this, it will be ugly, all the 1's are, yes it will be fast, but it will cost the earth, have no space in it, weigh a ton and have stop start.


Nope still cold.

Just buy a used M3.

I completely agree. I'm very pro-BMW, but the 1-series is an ugly duckling (as I think one says in English).
Why on Earth did they bother to make an M version; they should have first improved on the design...

[chippy17]

mat205125 said:

chippy17 said:

kambites said:

mat205125 said:

Escort Si-130 said:

It was obvious BMW would do this, after all Audi is coming out with the RS3, so BMW dont want to be 'done over'

I just hope that BMW make a proper M car rather than a fancy looking tuned 135 .... Whilst the Audi will carry the RS badge, I'd wager that it won't be as "RS" as previous performance derivatives.

What do you call a "proper M car" though? "M" originally stood for "Motorsport", if you're expecting it to be a racing car with a numberplate, I think you'll be disappointed.

M does of course stand for Motorsport but if you look at the first ever M car it was a 5 series, therefore it is more like the Motorsport division of BMW breathing on and tuning normal BMW road cars, so this car is totally in keeping with the M ethos
could still do with loosing a few pounds though if Porsche can make cars weighing under 1400kgs why can't BMW?!

I'm not expecting a stripped out race car for the road, however a return to the thinking of previous M generations would be appreciated. The M\\\ brand has been diluted of late with its X5 and X6 creations (neither of which I have driven I must point out), and a return to a more driver focussed rear wheel drive high performance road car would be massively appreciated.

Basically, given the dimensions, I just want BMW to make me a replacement for my E46 M3 .... I consider the current M3 a great car, but it has got too big.

I pray that BMW is more protective over its M\\\ brand than Mercedes has been with their AMG brand ..... bit of tinsel and a whopping great power increase does not make a performance car IMO

yes I see what you mean and agree, I was jsut making the point that M cars have never been stripped out roll caged up racers, they have been sporty versions of saloons and coupes
I agree things like the X5 and X6 should never really be called M cars although if BMW made an M7 would anyone moan that it was against the M ethos all these are big heavey motors...?

[geoffracing]

sootyrumble said:

Well where they went wrong is all the cars have got to big they should rebrand as below :-)

135M = M3
M3 = M5 Coupe
M5 = M7

Quite right this.
But most makers do this:
The best example is the Opel Kadett.
"Kadett" or "cadette" means "the smallest". But as the Kadett grew up, they had to make a smaller car: the Corsa. The Corsa is very slowly becoming larger, and soon they will have to create an other baby Opel!

Same with the small VW Polo... they had to make the Lupo so as to again have a small car!

[R66STU]

i went to a bmw open day a month ago. there was a FULLY loaded 1 series there, it was the 3.5 turbo. and looked really cool..

i asked how much it was and the guy said.. 'this one with all the extras will cost you 52k' to say i nearly choked on my coffee would be an uderstatment !!


i mean come on !! you can buy a base model M3 (new one with the v8) for that money

it reall takes the biscuit. so god knows hom much a 1m will cost.. let alone fully loaded.

[kambites]

There is no 1-series with a 3.5 engine.

[R66STU]

what litre is it ? 3.0 turbo .. twin turbo ?

[Fittster]

Zod said:

Gizmo! said:

Fittster said:

Ne0 said:

Fittster said:

It will be interesting to see how it's priced, hopefully around 35K.

Hopefully but given that a poverty spec 135i is about £30k, BMW will more than likely be looking c45k for this...

That would seem rather optimistic as it puts it head to head against a Cayman S.

Sounds about right. 360-380bhp, RWD, LSD, and with back seats it'll be slightly heavier but slightly more practical than the Cayman.

and quicker if the seats are folded down.

I must be getting tight in my old age, 45K for a 1 series coupe seems an awful lot to me. Think I'll lower my sights to the up comming Toyota coupe!

[havoc]

Zod said:

Gizmo! said:

Fittster said:

Ne0 said:

Fittster said:

It will be interesting to see how it's priced, hopefully around 35K.

Hopefully but given that a poverty spec 135i is about £30k, BMW will more than likely be looking c45k for this...

That would seem rather optimistic as it puts it head to head against a Cayman S.

Sounds about right. 360-380bhp, RWD, LSD, and with back seats it'll be slightly heavier but slightly more practical than the Cayman.

and quicker if the seats are folded down.

Don't start with that again!


Actually, if we're talking that sort of power, and that sort of price, why not spend £35k on a tidy Sagaris (or less on a T350), and put the change away for (a) trackdays and (b) potential repair bills. Chances are depreciation will be substantially less anyway, so you'll save again come resale...

[haidergill]

pilchardthecat said:

BlueEyedBoy said:

Please make it as a 3 door too, not just that horrendous coupe!

Strange, i think the 3 door is fuglier by far. The coupe looks a lot better, although none of the 1ers are catwalk models, it's the best of them.

I think the 1 series are contemporary and beautiful rathther than bland, boring and conservative. Overall I think Chris Bangle has revolutionised automtive design with his flame-surfacing. This can clearly be seen as most new car are adopting elements of flame-surfacing.