RE: Officially official: BMW 1-series M for 2011

[havoc]

NoelWatson said:

havoc said:

Captain Flashman said:

its funny, i love the idea of the R26.R but i could never spend my money on a front drive car, i have the same problem with the mini. the exige is my lotus of choice, a car i actually want but i don't really fit into it.

When looking at that sort of money...well, you can see what I went for, gambling on repair-bills vs depreciation. Ironically the R26.R is probably as quick/quicker point-to-point than my NSX in the hands of anyone except a very skilled driver...but IMHO speed isn't the be-all and end-all of driving.

I think you could have just as much fun in R26.R as in NSX

Which is why I've still got the 'teg - very different cars but both really good fun, albeit in different ways...and I didn't have to pay £20k+ for the 'teg...

[haidergill]

the-photographer said:

haidergill said:

the-photographer said:

OK, you're lucky it's a quiet afternoon at work...

Audi TTRS 1450 + 75 = 1525 / 335bhp (manual)

Cayman S 1425 kg / 295bhp (manual)

370z 1496 + 75 = 1571 kg / 331bhp (manual)

BMW 135i 1530 kg / 302bhp (manual)

BMW Z4 sDrive35is 1600 kg / 340bhp (7-speed DSG)

Ariel Atom 456 + 75 = 531 kg / 245-300 bhp (manual)

Audi S3 1515 + 75 = 1590 / 261bhp (auto)

BMW 1-M ???? / ???

Should we add any others?

Car	Weight KG (inc driver)
Atom	531
Cayman S	1425
Audi TTRS	1525
BMW 135i	1530
370z	1571
S3	1590
BMW Z4 sDrive35is	1600

Note, it's very hard to calculate accurate weights and even harder to compare car to car. For example, looking at the 370z brochure, the optional 19" wheels add another 29kg

what about the Ariel Atom???

Getting a bit silly, but I've added it. To counter this, I've added the S3 5 door sportback after all comments about space!

Caparo T1 689KG kerb weight. 575BHP.

[the-photographer]

Updated, with a couple more favourites

Audi TTRS 1450 + 75 = 1525 / 335bhp (manual)

Cayman S 1425 kg / 295bhp (manual)

370z 1496 + 75 = 1571 kg / 323bhp (manual)

BMW 135i 1530 kg / 302bhp (manual)

BMW Z4 sDrive35is 1600 kg / 340bhp (7-speed DSG)

BWM 335i M Sport 1600kg / 306bhp (manual)

M3 Coupe 1655kg / 420bhp (manual)

Ariel Atom 456 + 75 = 531 kg / 245-300 bhp (manual)

Audi S3 1515 + 75 = 1590 / 261bhp (auto)

Caparo T1 689kg / 575bhp (manual)

BMW 1-M ???? / ???

Should we add any others?

Car	Weight KG (inc driver)
Atom	531
Caparo T1	689
Cayman S	1425
Audi TTRS	1525
BMW 135i	1530
370z	1571
S3	1590
BMW Z4 sDrive35is	1600
BMW 335i M Sport	1600
BMW M3 Coupe	1655

Edited by the-photographer on Sunday 6th June 08:35

[NoelWatson]

the-photographer said:

Updated, with a couple more favourites

Audi TTRS 1450 + 75 = 1525 / 335bhp (manual)

Cayman S 1425 kg / 295bhp (manual)

370z 1496 + 75 = 1571 kg / 331bhp (manual)

BMW 135i 1530 kg / 302bhp (manual)

BMW Z4 sDrive35is 1600 kg / 340bhp (7-speed DSG)

BWM 335i M Sport 1600kg / 306bhp (manual)

M3 Coupe 1655kg / 420bhp (manual)

Ariel Atom 456 + 75 = 531 kg / 245-300 bhp (manual)

Audi S3 1515 + 75 = 1590 / 261bhp (auto)

Caparo T1 689kg / 575bhp (manual)

BMW 1-M ???? / ???

Should we add any others?

Car	Weight KG (inc driver)
Atom	531
Caparo T1	689
Cayman S	1425
Audi TTRS	1525
BMW 135i	1530
370z	1571
S3	1590
BMW Z4 sDrive35is	1600
BMW 335i M Sport	1600
BMW M3 Coupe	1655

I thought 370z is 324bhp?

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?stor...

[the-photographer]

NoelWatson said:

I thought 370z is 324bhp?

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?stor...

Amended using the brochure figure, to 323

[nobodyknows]

NoelWatson said:

the-photographer said:

NoelWatson said:

the-photographer said:

teamHOLDENracing said:

Are all these weights on the same basis? BMW's published weights normally includes driver & luggage (85kg) and a 90% full fuel tank....

Yes, I looked at brochures and added 75kg where appropriate. I'm happy for you to double check.

I'm not convinced the brochures are that accurate.

OK, I think they have to be reasonably accurate because of EU directive 95/48

I recall several Autocar road tests where the car is >100kg more than claimed. I would like to see a Cayman on a weighbridge, as unofficially I hear it is closer to 1500kg

didn't EVO magazine start weighing cars & rolling roading them to check manufacturers claims when they tested them, don't seem to do it any longer though?

[JEMYD]

Yep defo has to be a coupe only ..We must be due the 2 serious soon..

[haidergill]

the-photographer said:

Updated, with a couple more favourites

Audi TTRS 1450 + 75 = 1525 / 335bhp (manual)

Cayman S 1425 kg / 295bhp (manual)

370z 1496 + 75 = 1571 kg / 323bhp (manual)

BMW 135i 1530 kg / 302bhp (manual)

BMW Z4 sDrive35is 1600 kg / 340bhp (7-speed DSG)

BWM 335i M Sport 1600kg / 306bhp (manual)

M3 Coupe 1655kg / 420bhp (manual)

Ariel Atom 456 + 75 = 531 kg / 245-300 bhp (manual)

Audi S3 1515 + 75 = 1590 / 261bhp (auto)

Caparo T1 689kg / 575bhp (manual)

BMW 1-M ???? / ???

Should we add any others?

Car	Weight KG (inc driver)
Atom	531
Caparo T1	689
Cayman S	1425
Audi TTRS	1525
BMW 135i	1530
370z	1571
S3	1590
BMW Z4 sDrive35is	1600
BMW 335i M Sport	1600
BMW M3 Coupe	1655

Edited by the-photographer on Sunday 6th June 08:35

Thanks mate. Your table goes to show the progression from a sports car e.g. Atom/T1 to comfy sports cars e.g. Cayman to sporty cars 335i. We should chcuk in an Lotus Exige somewhere as bridge between the two camps.

[the-photographer]

Audi TTRS 1450 + 75 = 1525 / 335bhp (manual)

Cayman S 1425 kg / 295bhp (manual)

370z 1496 + 75 = 1571 kg / 323bhp (manual)

BMW 135i 1530 kg / 302bhp (manual)

BMW Z4 sDrive35is 1600 kg / 340bhp (7-speed DSG)

BWM 335i M Sport 1600kg / 306bhp (manual)

M3 Coupe 1655kg / 420bhp (manual)

Ariel Atom 456 + 75 = 531 kg / 245-300 bhp (manual)

Audi S3 1515 + 75 = 1590 / 261bhp (auto)

Caparo T1 689kg / 575bhp (manual)

Lotus Exige S 935 + 75 = 1010kg / 220bhp (manual & ac marked as an option)

Mercedes Benz SLK 350 1505kg / 305hp (auto 7 tronic

Mercedes Benz SLK 55AMG 1575kg / 360hp (auto 7 tronic)

BMW 1-M ???? / ???

Should we add any others?

Car	Weight KG (inc driver)
Atom	531
Caparo T1	689
Lotus Exige S	1010
Cayman S	1425
SLK 350	1505
Audi TTRS	1525
BMW 135i	1530
370z	1571
SLK 55AMG	1575
S3	1590
BMW Z4 sDrive35is	1600
BMW 335i M Sport	1600
BMW M3 Coupe	1655

Done, plus a couple of entries from Mercedes Benz, the AMG is pretty good considering the Z4 sDrive35is with auto box is 1600kg.

Edited by the-photographer on Monday 7th June 19:24

Edited by the-photographer on Monday 7th June 19:27

[Wolands Advocate]

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

[geoffracing]

ooral said:

kambites said:

havoc said:

kambites said:

God, is the 370Z really that heavy?

How the hell they've managed to make 2-seat coupes weigh as much as an E46 M3 (or an E34 M5!!!) is beyond me, but both Nissan and BMW have managed it, and without a V8 in sight...

BMW don't currently have a 2 seater coupe in their line-up do they? Or am I forgetting something?

Does the new Z4 count, obv when the roof is up!

Edited by ooral on Saturday 5th June 02:03

I have a new Z4, and it has been raining each time I got it out!
Well, it is incredibly rigid, and it really feels like a coupé when closed.
In fact, esthetically, I prefer it closed; I consider it as a coupé you can open when it's nice weather!
I participated in a rally this weekend, and it was delightful!

[RobM77]

geoffracing said:

ooral said:

kambites said:

havoc said:

kambites said:

God, is the 370Z really that heavy?

How the hell they've managed to make 2-seat coupes weigh as much as an E46 M3 (or an E34 M5!!!) is beyond me, but both Nissan and BMW have managed it, and without a V8 in sight...

BMW don't currently have a 2 seater coupe in their line-up do they? Or am I forgetting something?

Does the new Z4 count, obv when the roof is up!

Edited by ooral on Saturday 5th June 02:03

I have a new Z4, and it has been raining each time I got it out!
Well, it is incredibly rigid, and it really feels like a coupé when closed.
In fact, esthetically, I prefer it closed; I consider it as a coupé you can open when it's nice weather!
I participated in a rally this weekend, and it was delightful!

Until you consider that the outgoing Z4 Coupé was 1380kg, which is 220kg lighter than the quoted weight above for the new Z4 3.0. Some of that is the roof, and some is the increased size. I'm sure the new Z4 is a great car, and I don't mean to criticise it, but I view it as more of a Merc SL competitor than an SLK (both of which are great cars). It's not a sports car anymore - not at 1600kg when the Cayman and Evora weigh 1350kg.

[RobM77]

Wolands Advocate said:

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

Or how big the new Z4 is... As I've said above, the new Z4 is more of an SL type car.

I'm guessing new crash test regs are to blame, with the SLK being a 2004 car and the new Z4 being much newer. After all, it's crazy to think that the SLK55 AMG has a 5.5 V8, doesn't give anything away in terms of comfort or equipment (in fact it has more of both), and is lighter than a BMW Z4 with a 3.0 litre straight 6, which incidentally is the successor to one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines in the world, the BMW 3.0 N52.

[ZesPak]

RobM77 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

Or how big the new Z4 is... As I've said above, the new Z4 is more of an SL type car.

I'm guessing new crash test regs are to blame, with the SLK being a 2004 car and the new Z4 being much newer. After all, it's crazy to think that the SLK55 AMG has a 5.5 V8, doesn't give anything away in terms of comfort or equipment (in fact it has more of both), and is lighter than a BMW Z4 with a 3.0 litre straight 6, which incidentally is the successor to one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines in the world, the BMW 3.0 N52.

could it be a design problem tough? Designing such as a small car to look good is a lot hard (imho) than when you have a lot of room to play with.

[RobM77]

ZesPak said:

RobM77 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

Or how big the new Z4 is... As I've said above, the new Z4 is more of an SL type car.

I'm guessing new crash test regs are to blame, with the SLK being a 2004 car and the new Z4 being much newer. After all, it's crazy to think that the SLK55 AMG has a 5.5 V8, doesn't give anything away in terms of comfort or equipment (in fact it has more of both), and is lighter than a BMW Z4 with a 3.0 litre straight 6, which incidentally is the successor to one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines in the world, the BMW 3.0 N52.

could it be a design problem tough? Designing such as a small car to look good is a lot hard (imho) than when you have a lot of room to play with.

Possibly, but I hope that design doesn't play such a big part in such a complicated engineering creation! The old Z4 is a bit cramped for taller occupants, which explains the size increase. Personally, at only 5'10", I love having a car that fits me, rather than a heavier one that's two sizes too big

[Mr Whippy]

RobM77 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

Or how big the new Z4 is... As I've said above, the new Z4 is more of an SL type car.

I'm guessing new crash test regs are to blame, with the SLK being a 2004 car and the new Z4 being much newer. After all, it's crazy to think that the SLK55 AMG has a 5.5 V8, doesn't give anything away in terms of comfort or equipment (in fact it has more of both), and is lighter than a BMW Z4 with a 3.0 litre straight 6, which incidentally is the successor to one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines in the world, the BMW 3.0 N52.

What are these crash test regs?

I keep hearing about them, but do they really inhibit producers that much? BMW are wanting to release a new Z2 anyway, so it's not that a car HAS to be so big or it's not allowed anymore.

BMW just wanted more luxury for the Z4, so a metal roof, which took up so much room they had to make the car bigger to give it a decent ish sized boot, and then it weighs more, so bigger brakes, needs more power, so more engine, and around in circles you go!

They *could* have made it the same size and just refreshed the looks, but that doesn't seem to be 'progress' these days... things have to get bigger for people to see a need to upgrade. Stupid but it seems to work for plenty of stupids. By the next generation Z4 owners will be driving around in what is essentially the 6 series convertible, while the new Z2 is actually what they used to own

Same goes with all cars these days. Cars don't get replaced, they get 'upgraded'

New Astra is old Vectra, new Focus is old Mondeo kinda thing...

Dave

[RobM77]

Mr Whippy said:

RobM77 said:

Wolands Advocate said:

Not when you consider how small an SLK is!

Or how big the new Z4 is... As I've said above, the new Z4 is more of an SL type car.

I'm guessing new crash test regs are to blame, with the SLK being a 2004 car and the new Z4 being much newer. After all, it's crazy to think that the SLK55 AMG has a 5.5 V8, doesn't give anything away in terms of comfort or equipment (in fact it has more of both), and is lighter than a BMW Z4 with a 3.0 litre straight 6, which incidentally is the successor to one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines in the world, the BMW 3.0 N52.

What are these crash test regs?

I keep hearing about them, but do they really inhibit producers that much? BMW are wanting to release a new Z2 anyway, so it's not that a car HAS to be so big or it's not allowed anymore.

BMW just wanted more luxury for the Z4, so a metal roof, which took up so much room they had to make the car bigger to give it a decent ish sized boot, and then it weighs more, so bigger brakes, needs more power, so more engine, and around in circles you go!

They *could* have made it the same size and just refreshed the looks, but that doesn't seem to be 'progress' these days... things have to get bigger for people to see a need to upgrade. Stupid but it seems to work for plenty of stupids. By the next generation Z4 owners will be driving around in what is essentially the 6 series convertible, while the new Z2 is actually what they used to own

Same goes with all cars these days. Cars don't get replaced, they get 'upgraded'

New Astra is old Vectra, new Focus is old Mondeo kinda thing...

Dave

I know crash test regs are getting tougher all the time, although you're probably right, the big developments lately have been pedestrian impact, which mainly affects styling I think.

I've always been amused how the Golf used to be VW's small car; they then moved it upmarket and introduced the Polo. Then they moved both upmarket and introduced the Lupo. Then they moved all three upmarket and introduced the Fox.

In 2020 we're probably going to have entry level cars such as the VW Mouse and a BMW -5 series Meanwhile, the BMW 7 series will probably be converted for use by luxury coach companies.