IOM TT Lap time - could a car beat it?

[s3fella]

IIRC they tried an F3000 ar round it once, but it was wet so not that quick.

I remember Tony Pond's attempt too. Real impressive in what was pretty much a stock road car. The attempt I saw I think he missed 100mph average by 7s or so.

[Gun]

neilski said:

Caparo T1?

Probably a bit too bumpy for one of those, I'd love to see them try though!

[dan19evans]

a turbo hayabusa-engine mini

[Taffer]

If you look at the Macau GP times, the superbikes post slightly faster times than GT3 racers, never mind road-going 911 GT3s (AFAIK they race on the same circuit layout). Swings and roundabouts though, as Macau is shorter and has lots of tight and twisty bits, and the bikers go balls-out (see pic below for dedication) - it does have have a smooth surface though. There's quite a few bits on the IoM TT circuit where the bikes get big air and ground out - any car with less than WRC-spec suspension would probably have to back off a bit, losing time.



Even if cars can go faster, I don't think it would be as impressive as what the guys on the bikes achieve - check out Guy Martin's lap with commentary for some great footage and quick-fire talk-through of the lap.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXc29ZgutI
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUYIH2Ttzk

Mentalists!

[Rollcage]

I'd agree about the level of dedication needed to post a fast lap round the TT circuit on a bike (Or a car for that matter). These guys must cart their balls around in a wheelbarrow!

A mistake can, and does, lead to horrific consequences. In fact in these safety conscious times it's something of a miracle it is allowed to continue - long may it carry on!

[jjones]

there is a hump backed bridge on the circuit also!

[petrolsniffer]

gumpert apollo?

Edited by petrolsniffer on Sunday 6th June 00:10

[Rollcage]

Taffer said:

Even if cars can go faster, I don't think it would be as impressive as what the guys on the bikes achieve - check out Guy Martin's lap with commentary for some great footage and quick-fire talk-through of the lap.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXc29ZgutI
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUYIH2Ttzk

Mentalists!

He reckons he was hitting 207mph at one point!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely astonishing.

[Jakg]

EDLT said:

Tony Pond doing a 100mph lap of the TT course in a "standard" Rover Vitesse that seems to be on slicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKyMgry9iQ

Balls. Like. Coconuts.

Bikes are scary... but bouncing a 1.5 ton lump of metal around like that is on a different level.

[ClintonB]

Rollcage said:

I'd agree about the level of dedication needed to post a fast lap round the TT circuit on a bike (Or a car for that matter). These guys must cart their balls around in a wheelbarrow!

A mistake can, and does, lead to horrific consequences. In fact in these safety conscious times it's something of a miracle it is allowed to continue - long may it carry on!

I guess in some respects it could be/is a wheelbarrow per plum. However, at the same time, there is always that element (in an automotive equivalent) of seeing a 90mph+ fast ball look like a gently meandering beach ball. Health & an inherent confidence in your abilities can look an awful lot like stupidity or world class swingers to most people.


I'd agree on the long may it continue sentiment. Even as a total non biker (but a very sympathetic one), I'd shed a tear or two if the TT was ever canned.


On the original question, I guess the issue for the car is that given the nature of the roads, there are too many conflicting compromises required to meet the challenges of the TT course. I would imagine that a modern interpretation of a Group B rally car (in tarmac spec) would stand a fair old chance, with the right driver, of course.

[Conian]

Re: bikes being 1m off the pace of cars at The Ring...
Ring times are set by manufacturers sending whole works crews with a lot of effort into getting the best time... i know nothing about the bike records, are they fast guys from the public, or a race team or a manufacturer with full support?

[v8will]

Mclaren F1 in road trim.

It might just have the suspension compliance needed and certainly would have the power and acceleration to match the bikes. Bikes struggle though and it's nigh on impossible to get one set up to be good on every section of the course, so anything really track biased would be out of it's depth IMHO

The question is, who would have the talent and balls to put a car of that value around the TT at 10/10ths

If it's ever attempted the Ultima would be the most reasonable and obvious choice. Maybe.

[Strawman]

Conian said:

Re: bikes being 1m off the pace of cars at The Ring...
Ring times are set by manufacturers sending whole works crews with a lot of effort into getting the best time... i know nothing about the bike records, are they fast guys from the public, or a race team or a manufacturer with full support?

That is true for the mainstream manufacturers, like Nissan and Porsche etc. but the overall record holder for a production car the radical SR8LM with 6:48, is only a few (very talented) guys in a shed.

[Hitch78]

petrolsniffer said:

gumpert apollo?

Edited by petrolsniffer on Sunday 6th June 00:10

Good call.

[Hitch78]

Jakg said:

EDLT said:

Tony Pond doing a 100mph lap of the TT course in a "standard" Rover Vitesse that seems to be on slicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKyMgry9iQ

Balls. Like. Coconuts.

Bikes are scary... but bouncing a 1.5 ton lump of metal around like that is on a different level.

Not quite - you can't fall off a Rover.

[pilchardthecat]

Jakg said:

EDLT said:

Tony Pond doing a 100mph lap of the TT course in a "standard" Rover Vitesse that seems to be on slicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKyMgry9iQ

Balls. Like. Coconuts.

Bikes are scary... but bouncing a 1.5 ton lump of metal around like that is on a different level.

Yes, a level well below the bike! Chucking a car about, whilst just as skillful is inherently less scary, less risky, and thus will always be less impressive (IMO) from a steel balls perspective. And i'm not a massive bike fan, i sold my blade several years ago and don't have one now.

[DuncanM]

I just watched the Guy Martin videos and have to say that Bikers are mad and unbelievably brave!

This comment on Youtube sums it up perfectly for me:

hjworton said:

........I have no idea how you can go so fast on public roads. These guys are either completely unafraid of pain and/or death or they have no imagination at all. I take my hat off to them, it is immense, and terrifying just to watch.

Duncan

Edited by DuncanM on Sunday 6th June 08:45

Edited by DuncanM on Sunday 6th June 08:46

[Scuffers]

dan19evans said:

Rollcage said:

Glosphil said:

Wasn't this discussed, at great length, only a few months ago?

Very possibly! Cant imagine its the first time it has come up......



Seems to me that something like a 911 GT2 would do it, comparing respective lap times for road cars and bike around the 'Ring.

If a 911 GT2 could do it, an Ultima could smoke it.

LOL! yes, that's right.....

Much as I like Ultima's, they are not exactly the pinnacle of fast cars, something like a 911 Cup R is a far better track weapon

back to the subject, I reckon the right car will be faster, but think small, no way would you get something like a Veron/Macca F1 round there efficiently, I would suggest a 911 is about as big as you would want to go...

top speed is probably not that important per say, it's not having to slow down that is, look at the ring times, some of the fastest cars are well off the top speed tables.

a decent Caterham would be right up there I would suggest, along with an Elise (with enough power)

[Mazda Baiter]

This again? Ok. Car every time.

Driver- Mark Higgins (a manx-man rally driver)

Car- Pilbeam hillclimb car with a bigger fuel tank.

Done.

Anyone who thinks a bike would be faster is mad. Check lap records for circuits and see how much slower a bike is. I know that most of the TT course is flat out, but if you have a car that can match the top speed, can almost match the acceleration and can obliterate the bike through corners then there is no contest.

Or go and do it to find out.

[smifffymoto]

This old chestnut again.......I can't see any cars suspension coping with the likes of ballaugh bridge,barregarrow.With barregarrow I can see any car in the opposite hedge.