IOM TT Lap time - could a car beat it?
Discussion
smifffymoto said:
I can't see any cars suspension coping with the likes of ballaugh bridge,barregarrow.With barregarrow I can see any car in the opposite hedge.
I can't see any motorbikes suspension coping with Ballaugh bridge. That's why they get air over it. The difference being that you could land a car not quite straight from a far higher speed and get away with it, whereas with a bike you are in the wall/ coasting with a snapped chain.Because a car is faster through corners you could take flatter lines through corners like barregarrow which would smooth it out some. As said above if you have the right car it will be faster, just a shame that the powers that be won't allow it.
It would be interesting to hear what the roads open car guys say this year as they have the Porsche as mentioned above.
Speed wise, if you had the balls you could easily match the bikes!
It would be interesting to hear what the roads open car guys say this year as they have the Porsche as mentioned above.
Speed wise, if you had the balls you could easily match the bikes!
IMO nothing 'normal' from a showroom on 4 wheels could beat a full-on bike, you'd need something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgzi7A02kSY
As someone said, much of the TT is flat out - which would inherently favour a bike... a 200mph car with sufficient downforce would require a lot of power - at the expense of agility and slow corner traction.
A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
Jakg said:
EDLT said:
Tony Pond doing a 100mph lap of the TT course in a "standard" Rover Vitesse that seems to be on slicks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKyMgry9iQ
Balls. Like. Coconuts.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnKyMgry9iQ
Bikes are scary... but bouncing a 1.5 ton lump of metal around like that is on a different level.
Bikes are much more difficult to make the most of. Under and oversteer is much, much harder to control, two brakes to worry about not just one, constantly deliberately shifting weight distribution forward backward, left and right, up and down, actively controlling lean angles, managing wheelies and stoppies, you have to hold on whilst doing all this, not just sit still, strapped in. All in a safety context of no seatbelts, airbags or crumple-zones. whilst travelling at a higher average speed than a free-falling sky-diver. If you clip a wall or an apex, chances are it'll be with your head, not your front wing.
Road-racers make racing drivers look like sledging girl-guides.
Wacky Racer said:
I know the TT course very well, having been round it many times, it is unique, and cannot be compared to the "ring"..(imo), there is no way any car will get anywhere near a bike's 131mph lap.....maybe a Pilbeam or similar, but even then.....
Just don't buy this....asides, Pilbeam hillclimb car's are hardly designed for high speed work..
Been round the TT cct on a bike (very slowly I hasten to add), and I can't see why the right car would have that much trouble to be honest, just imagine an old Group B rallycar with a tarmac setup and taller gearing...
that said, I still think a Caterham/Elise with enough power would be there...
Scuffers said:
Wacky Racer said:
I know the TT course very well, having been round it many times, it is unique, and cannot be compared to the "ring"..(imo), there is no way any car will get anywhere near a bike's 131mph lap.....maybe a Pilbeam or similar, but even then.....
Just don't buy this....asides, Pilbeam hillclimb car's are hardly designed for high speed work..
Been round the TT cct on a bike (very slowly I hasten to add), and I can't see why the right car would have that much trouble to be honest, just imagine an old Group B rallycar with a tarmac setup and taller gearing...
that said, I still think a Caterham/Elise with enough power would be there...
Scuffers said:
BarnatosGhost] said:
but to average 130 the bikes spend a LOT of time between 160-200mph. What sort of elise or caterham is going to be able to do that even once on this course, never mind a dozen times?
ones with enough power....ML said:
Scuffers said:
BarnatosGhost] said:
but to average 130 the bikes spend a LOT of time between 160-200mph. What sort of elise or caterham is going to be able to do that even once on this course, never mind a dozen times?
ones with enough power....Same for the Elise, yes, 200 is a tall order, but 170+ is a much easier target.
Point is, even if the bikes can do 200+, actual laptime difference between topping out at 160 and 200 is not that significant, nothing like the difference slowing down another 20-30Mph for the slow stuff will make.
I recon some of the maddest time attack cars in the series could do it, with a few tweaks.
I mean this is what im talking about, and its even faster this year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiQ6FcyiPag
I mean this is what im talking about, and its even faster this year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiQ6FcyiPag
Dunk76 said:
As someone said, much of the TT is flat out - which would inherently favour a bike... a 200mph car with sufficient downforce would require a lot of power - at the expense of agility and slow corner traction.
A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
But, are the narrow sections including change of directions?A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
The Autocar Cadwell park video, Bike vs GTR say that the two areas where the car had an advantage are chicanes (+ alpine loop) and braking.
So my logic is that straight, or single direction narrow bits will favour the bike, a narrow section with a few changes in it may favour the car.
My moneys on the car. But, are we making a fair comparison? Are the IOM TT bikes not race bikes? What about road vs road?
Scuffers said:
ML said:
Scuffers said:
BarnatosGhost] said:
but to average 130 the bikes spend a LOT of time between 160-200mph. What sort of elise or caterham is going to be able to do that even once on this course, never mind a dozen times?
ones with enough power....Same for the Elise, yes, 200 is a tall order, but 170+ is a much easier target.
Point is, even if the bikes can do 200+, actual laptime difference between topping out at 160 and 200 is not that significant, nothing like the difference slowing down another 20-30Mph for the slow stuff will make.
Exiting a corner at 80, the bikes are up to 150 just a few hundred yards later. And i think that is where they have cars pegged. Their mid- to high-speed acceleration is simply devastating.
Dimski said:
Dunk76 said:
As someone said, much of the TT is flat out - which would inherently favour a bike... a 200mph car with sufficient downforce would require a lot of power - at the expense of agility and slow corner traction.
A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
But, are the narrow sections including change of directions?A lot of the TT course is very narrow, which again favours bikes - some of the stuff that the bikes straight line would represent significant corners to a car.
I'd still put money on the bike.
The Autocar Cadwell park video, Bike vs GTR say that the two areas where the car had an advantage are chicanes (+ alpine loop) and braking.
So my logic is that straight, or single direction narrow bits will favour the bike, a narrow section with a few changes in it may favour the car.
My moneys on the car. But, are we making a fair comparison? Are the IOM TT bikes not race bikes? What about road vs road?
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