RE: Bugatti Supersport With 1200hp: Truth Or Fiction?

RE: Bugatti Supersport With 1200hp: Truth Or Fiction?

Author
Discussion

Stu_00

1,529 posts

218 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
Meh might be news when its 2000bhp...


No seriously but I have to laugh at people attitudes towards the Veyron...just because you can buy a 1000bhp car from Henneesy or Shelby supercars now people just think its run of the mill!! the Veyron did 250mph in the hands of James May..I would like to see any layman with balls to do 250 in that stretched Elise...making a 1000bhp drag car is great..making a usable 1000bhp GT is a completely different scenario.
smile Yes you can imagine the fear now !

johnycarrera

1,935 posts

229 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
"Buy a GT-R, a pub and a mail order bride, put the rest in the bank and sit back and smile!

Simples, why make life more complicated?"

I'm liking the pub/ mail order bride thinking, but you went too far with the Datsun ! jester

Varsity

90 posts

182 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
TonyHetherington said:
Varsity said:
Simples, why make life more complicated?
Because that desire to "make life more complicated" invented the wheel, the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, put man on the moon, took photos of galaxies far far away, created HD tv, gave us porn on the internet and created a 242mph supercar. It's mans express need to "make life more complicated" that resulted in a bloke in his pants creating PistonHeads.

Never underestimate the good of "making life more complicated".
I think you mixing in a bit of "making money", "inventing for necessity", etc. into this.

However, that said, please tell me more about this porn you talk about?

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
hehe Google images: boobies: search.

McSam

6,753 posts

174 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
snorkel sucker said:
hmmmm.... im no mathematician but would that gain in horsepower really relate to that incresed top speed??

I thought that for every extra mph above what the veyron already does, that requires a not inconsiderable hp increase to overcome the drag....

anyone brighter than me care to help me out?!!
Indeed it does take a lot of power to gain just 1mph at these speeds, but bear in mind that we're talking about a power increase of 20%, but speed of only 1%.

To use the original figure of 1001PS (and to assume that this 1200bhp figure is actually 1200PS, which seems more likely), and a 253.8mph maximum speed for the original, the new car should reach a theoretical speed of 269.6mph, assuming its external design is the same. The actual top speed is likely to be (very) marginally lower because that calculation doesn't take a change in tyre friction into account, but the change in that factor is negligible compared to air resistance between such speeds.

My guess is, then, that the original car does indeed make more than 1001PS - to use those calculations the other way, if the new car's 1200PS makes it do 'only' 264mph, then with all things being equal the old car needed 1066PS to do its 253.8mph.

These are worked out using the principle that power required is proportional to velocity cubed, as the force required to overcome air resistance (the key factor at such high speeds) is proportional to velocity squared, and power is proportional to velocity, hence the v^3. Obviously it can only be used where factors such as coefficient of drag are unchanged. Tested against things like manufacturers' figures for top speed/power in different-engined versions of the same car, it seems acceptably accurate smile

LongLiveTazio

2,714 posts

196 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
R66STU said:
this is a pointless car.. it is just chasing numbers.

why dont they make a 'proper' ltd edition like Mclaren did with their orange LeMans road car spermspermsperm
That you couldn't buy unless your first name was 'Sultan'. Why do people always believe the F1 had more of 'a point' because it's seen as the supercar for the Driving God? It was a loss-making exercise by a bunch of people who just wanted to do what they felt like. A bit like the Veyron, then.

rallyman77

138 posts

166 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
TonyHetherington said:
Varsity said:
Simples, why make life more complicated?
Because that desire to "make life more complicated" invented the wheel, the steam engine, the internal combustion engine, put man on the moon, took photos of galaxies far far away, created HD tv, gave us porn on the internet and created a 242mph supercar. It's mans express need to "make life more complicated" that resulted in a bloke in his pants creating PistonHeads.

Never underestimate the good of "making life more complicated".
I liked the order...

Clearly this man has his priorities in the right order!

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
LongLiveTazio said:
R66STU said:
this is a pointless car.. it is just chasing numbers.

why dont they make a 'proper' ltd edition like Mclaren did with their orange LeMans road car spermspermsperm
That you couldn't buy unless your first name was 'Sultan'. Why do people always believe the F1 had more of 'a point' because it's seen as the supercar for the Driving God? It was a loss-making exercise by a bunch of people who just wanted to do what they felt like. A bit like the Veyron, then.
Isn't the Veyron seen as a halo model?

The F1 had a point because it was of very few supercars ever made that was both a true driver's car (1000kg, no servo brakes, no power steering, cable throttle, no electronic aids; it's basically like an Exige in driver's car specs), and a useable everyday proposition (more luggage space than a contempary Fiesta, amazing visibility, seating for three, air con, CD player etc).

Most cars with the driving credentials are barely disguised racers that are loud with a hard ride and impractical for everyday use (F40, Exige, GT2), and most cars that you can use everyday don't have the driving credentials (I won't list cars because I'll upset people, but I think you know which supercars I mean). The F1 combined both, and that's why it was/is special. The fact that it made a loss was just a sign of the times, or perhaps the price they were pitched at; they retailed for £640k originally, or £972k in today's money, but are now changing hands for £2M, or over double their new price in today's money - that's a success in my opinion. I'm not the type to get sentimental about old cars, and appreciate new technology, but if you asked me now what supercar I'd want to own out of any ever made, I'd say the F1. Nobody else has ever made a 1000kg driver's car with comfort for everyday use, and nobody probably ever will.

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
bowtie

rallyman77

138 posts

166 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
Varsity said:
Buy a GT-R, a pub and a mail order bride, put the rest in the bank and sit back and smile!

Simples, why make life more complicated?
I am not entirely convinced with the Datsun though... You have to sell it harder to me.

rallyman77

138 posts

166 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
LongLiveTazio said:
That you couldn't buy unless your first name was 'Sultan'.
You mean Sheikh...

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
rallyman77 said:
Varsity said:
Buy a GT-R, a pub and a mail order bride, put the rest in the bank and sit back and smile!

Simples, why make life more complicated?
I am not entirely convinced with the Datsun though... You have to sell it harder to me.
How about saving on the £24k tyre bill every 3,000 miles hehe

You can run a 1980s Formula One car cheaper. That's not an exaggeration, I've seen the figures for both!

snorkel sucker

2,662 posts

202 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
ads_green said:
Yes - drag proportional to the sqaure of speed so taking wiki's numbers of Top speed: 253 and 987 bhp then 1200 bhp could yeild 270mph.

(by the same logic it's "only" using 480odd bhp to maintain 200mph).
theironduke said:
IIRC

The current Veyron uses C300 of its horses to get to 150 but to do the next 100 mph to get to 250 it needs the other 700 BHP.

I recall this being heard on Top Gear so may not be accurate..
The Wookie said:
Just done a quick sim, that power increase is good for at least that top speed.

Worth noting that with the 1000bhp of the standard car, (assuming I'm relatively close with the frontal area) it would need to be quite close to critical gearing to hit 252mph, so a change of final drive would probably be necessary to increase the top speed
McSam said:
Indeed it does take a lot of power to gain just 1mph at these speeds, but bear in mind that we're talking about a power increase of 20%, but speed of only 1%.

To use the original figure of 1001PS (and to assume that this 1200bhp figure is actually 1200PS, which seems more likely), and a 253.8mph maximum speed for the original, the new car should reach a theoretical speed of 269.6mph, assuming its external design is the same. The actual top speed is likely to be (very) marginally lower because that calculation doesn't take a change in tyre friction into account, but the change in that factor is negligible compared to air resistance between such speeds.

My guess is, then, that the original car does indeed make more than 1001PS - to use those calculations the other way, if the new car's 1200PS makes it do 'only' 264mph, then with all things being equal the old car needed 1066PS to do its 253.8mph.

These are worked out using the principle that power required is proportional to velocity cubed, as the force required to overcome air resistance (the key factor at such high speeds) is proportional to velocity squared, and power is proportional to velocity, hence the v^3. Obviously it can only be used where factors such as coefficient of drag are unchanged. Tested against things like manufacturers' figures for top speed/power in different-engined versions of the same car, it seems acceptably accurate smile
right then, c'mon, own up - who cheated and used google to help them with their calcs?! No cheating at the back there! hehe

I did think it would need more bhp than that to increase to over 260mph, but when you look at it in terms of a %, as you say McSam, that figures really.

thank you to the wise memebers of PH for enlightening me!

rallyman77

138 posts

166 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
rallyman77 said:
Varsity said:
Buy a GT-R, a pub and a mail order bride, put the rest in the bank and sit back and smile!

Simples, why make life more complicated?
I am not entirely convinced with the Datsun though... You have to sell it harder to me.
How about saving on the £24k tyre bill every 3,000 miles hehe

You can run a 1980s Formula One car cheaper. That's not an exaggeration, I've seen the figures for both!
I have to agree on both comments as money is an object for me...

For someone mega-rich though (insert intended customer here or sheikhs name) then whats £24k? dust in the wind?

nickz32

86 posts

189 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
Well i say fair play to Bugatti/VW. They make such a huge loss on standard veyrons, they could have just left it at that. But they have continued to develop the concept and make something even more insane!

Oh, and IMHO the whole "i only like cars i can aspire to own" arguement.... what complete pish.

90% of the people who visit PH cant afford a second hand 355, never mind a new supercar, or a new GTR (myself included!) The whole point of super and hyper cars is that people like me can drewl over them and stand in awe of the people who can actually afford and run them, and gently pester them for a ride in it.

It may only be a technical exercise, but its a 1200bhp light weight veyron. Yes Please!

caymanred

714 posts

180 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
hey im very happy about this updated car! i was really getting bored of my veyron taking bloody 2.5 secs to get to 60....and topping at 253....

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
rallyman77 said:
RobM77 said:
rallyman77 said:
Varsity said:
Buy a GT-R, a pub and a mail order bride, put the rest in the bank and sit back and smile!

Simples, why make life more complicated?
I am not entirely convinced with the Datsun though... You have to sell it harder to me.
How about saving on the £24k tyre bill every 3,000 miles hehe

You can run a 1980s Formula One car cheaper. That's not an exaggeration, I've seen the figures for both!
I have to agree on both comments as money is an object for me...

For someone mega-rich though (insert intended customer here or sheikhs name) then whats £24k? dust in the wind?
I'm not sure many people are that rich are they, that they have utterly everything?! £24k is a great birthday present for a relative, a good bonus for one of their staff, a completely top notch race weekend in their classic F1 car, a really great holiday and so on. In short, it's still £24k and it's an unecessary expense when compared to running an Enzo or Zonda. For example, my salary's quadrupled in the last five years, but a tenner is still a tenner to me, so I still view a £20 bottle of wine as £20, not like it's £5.

Mind you, I generally have trouble understanding the Veyron anyway. I heard a story of a guy who had his Veyron transported to a good driving road, flew in in his private jet for a drive, and flew out again. The cost of the jet and the transporter would have been less than the tyre wear of paying someone to drive the car there from his house. When things get like that, you might as well go motor racing (fly in, drive, fly out - very similar), and there are a myriad of racing cars much faster and better to drive than a Veyron costing a lot less money to buy and run...

off_again

12,252 posts

233 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
Sorry, but its got to be said .....

But you can map a 335d to more!

boxedin

TheArchitect

1,238 posts

178 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
I surprised no one has modified a veyron engine already public ally, there are enough modifiers about with the money.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Wednesday 16th June 2010
quotequote all
off_again said:
Sorry, but its got to be said .....

But you can map a 335d to more!

boxedin
hehe