RE: Driven: BMW M3 GTS

Author
Discussion

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Wednesday 21st July 2010
quotequote all
For me, a bit of a hollow article. Didn't really give an idea of what the car was like to drive, or any kind of comparison with the competition. I think the car looks ridiculous with the spoiler too, and i'd rather it was slightly less hardcore (seats and no cage) for the sake of 70kg.

I'm really posting on here for the benefit of the ego-bulging-SMG-haters though. I regularly hear chatter about 'real drivers' wanting manual gearboxes. When you actually ask them to back up their opinions with experience, they've either only done a 5 minute test drive or are regurgitating the opinion of an ageing romantic who's written a piece in Autocar.

I was sceptical about my CSL having SMG, but after a week of getting used to it, i realised it suited the car perfectly. It allowed me to get more out of the car, and myself. Not to mention clutches are incredibly tiresome for the daily monotonous commute.

Ultimately, most people go for the paddle shift option when it comes to performance cars. The elitist/boorish few 'real drivers' who do their 3 or 4 track days a year should really except that the game has moved on. There are plenty of other 'issues' with modern cars to moan about...

will261058

1,115 posts

191 months

Wednesday 21st July 2010
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
kambites said:
I don't get it... it's a fecking great big heavy saloon car without the practicality. Why would you possibly want to spend 116k on this when there are so many great purpose built sports cars out there?

I'm sure 150 people will stump up the cash for one, but I really can't imagine [i]why[i/].

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th July 15:35
Exactly, nail on the head hit. It has all the compromises of a big saloon without any of the advantages of day-to-day useability. They should have either gone even more hardcore and shed a load more weight or struck a better balance of useability. I know I keep comparing the two but how can they have shed over 100kgs on the CSL while still retaining some semblance of practicality and with 8 years more experience, only shed 70kg even though they have ditched the back seats. The standard M3 isn't exactly a light weight, surely they can do better than that for £116k.
You need to bear in mind that while the CSL was lighter by 100kg and this GTS is only 70kg lighter, than their relevant standard M3s, the CSL didnt have a roll cage fitted as standard. How much does a roll cage weigh? If you want to compare the two then you have to factor this in.

will261058

1,115 posts

191 months

Wednesday 21st July 2010
quotequote all
will261058 said:
Guvernator said:
kambites said:
I don't get it... it's a fecking great big heavy saloon car without the practicality. Why would you possibly want to spend 116k on this when there are so many great purpose built sports cars out there?

I'm sure 150 people will stump up the cash for one, but I really can't imagine [i]why[i/].

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th July 15:35
Exactly, nail on the head hit. It has all the compromises of a big saloon without any of the advantages of day-to-day useability. They should have either gone even more hardcore and shed a load more weight or struck a better balance of useability. I know I keep comparing the two but how can they have shed over 100kgs on the CSL while still retaining some semblance of practicality and with 8 years more experience, only shed 70kg even though they have ditched the back seats. The standard M3 isn't exactly a light weight, surely they can do better than that for £116k.
You need to bear in mind that while the CSL was lighter by 100kg and this GTS is only 70kg lighter, than their relevant standard M3s, the CSL didnt have a roll cage fitted as standard. How much does a roll cage weigh? If you want to compare the two then you have to factor this in.
And the standard E9X M3 aready has a carbon fibre roof the E46 M3 did not.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 22nd July 2010
quotequote all
hondansx said:
For me, a bit of a hollow article. Didn't really give an idea of what the car was like to drive, or any kind of comparison with the competition. I think the car looks ridiculous with the spoiler too, and i'd rather it was slightly less hardcore (seats and no cage) for the sake of 70kg.

I'm really posting on here for the benefit of the ego-bulging-SMG-haters though. I regularly hear chatter about 'real drivers' wanting manual gearboxes. When you actually ask them to back up their opinions with experience, they've either only done a 5 minute test drive or are regurgitating the opinion of an ageing romantic who's written a piece in Autocar.

I was sceptical about my CSL having SMG, but after a week of getting used to it, i realised it suited the car perfectly. It allowed me to get more out of the car, and myself. Not to mention clutches are incredibly tiresome for the daily monotonous commute.

Ultimately, most people go for the paddle shift option when it comes to performance cars. The elitist/boorish few 'real drivers' who do their 3 or 4 track days a year should really except that the game has moved on. There are plenty of other 'issues' with modern cars to moan about...
And also the variety of systems available. Top Gear love to bander about the phrase "flappy paddle", but this can mean three things: the Mercedes AMG system is controlling a traditional automatic gearbox, the BMW SMG system is an automated manual, and Porsche, VAG and now Ferrari use a double clutch system. I've only ever tried the paddles on an automatic gearbox in an AMG Merc, which were ok on track, but I couldn't get on with it on the road at all. I'd like to try an SMG or DSG style box someday.

E21_Ross

34,941 posts

211 months

Thursday 22nd July 2010
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
hondansx said:
For me, a bit of a hollow article. Didn't really give an idea of what the car was like to drive, or any kind of comparison with the competition. I think the car looks ridiculous with the spoiler too, and i'd rather it was slightly less hardcore (seats and no cage) for the sake of 70kg.

I'm really posting on here for the benefit of the ego-bulging-SMG-haters though. I regularly hear chatter about 'real drivers' wanting manual gearboxes. When you actually ask them to back up their opinions with experience, they've either only done a 5 minute test drive or are regurgitating the opinion of an ageing romantic who's written a piece in Autocar.

I was sceptical about my CSL having SMG, but after a week of getting used to it, i realised it suited the car perfectly. It allowed me to get more out of the car, and myself. Not to mention clutches are incredibly tiresome for the daily monotonous commute.

Ultimately, most people go for the paddle shift option when it comes to performance cars. The elitist/boorish few 'real drivers' who do their 3 or 4 track days a year should really except that the game has moved on. There are plenty of other 'issues' with modern cars to moan about...
And also the variety of systems available. Top Gear love to bander about the phrase "flappy paddle", but this can mean three things: the Mercedes AMG system is controlling a traditional automatic gearbox, the BMW SMG system is an automated manual, and Porsche, VAG and now Ferrari use a double clutch system. I've only ever tried the paddles on an automatic gearbox in an AMG Merc, which were ok on track, but I couldn't get on with it on the road at all. I'd like to try an SMG or DSG style box someday.
the new bmw gearboxes are basically the same as the dsg boxes, it's the DCT, double clutch transmission. very different from the old SMG box.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Thursday 22nd July 2010
quotequote all
E21_Ross said:
RobM77 said:
hondansx said:
For me, a bit of a hollow article. Didn't really give an idea of what the car was like to drive, or any kind of comparison with the competition. I think the car looks ridiculous with the spoiler too, and i'd rather it was slightly less hardcore (seats and no cage) for the sake of 70kg.

I'm really posting on here for the benefit of the ego-bulging-SMG-haters though. I regularly hear chatter about 'real drivers' wanting manual gearboxes. When you actually ask them to back up their opinions with experience, they've either only done a 5 minute test drive or are regurgitating the opinion of an ageing romantic who's written a piece in Autocar.

I was sceptical about my CSL having SMG, but after a week of getting used to it, i realised it suited the car perfectly. It allowed me to get more out of the car, and myself. Not to mention clutches are incredibly tiresome for the daily monotonous commute.

Ultimately, most people go for the paddle shift option when it comes to performance cars. The elitist/boorish few 'real drivers' who do their 3 or 4 track days a year should really except that the game has moved on. There are plenty of other 'issues' with modern cars to moan about...
And also the variety of systems available. Top Gear love to bander about the phrase "flappy paddle", but this can mean three things: the Mercedes AMG system is controlling a traditional automatic gearbox, the BMW SMG system is an automated manual, and Porsche, VAG and now Ferrari use a double clutch system. I've only ever tried the paddles on an automatic gearbox in an AMG Merc, which were ok on track, but I couldn't get on with it on the road at all. I'd like to try an SMG or DSG style box someday.
the new bmw gearboxes are basically the same as the dsg boxes, it's the DCT, double clutch transmission. very different from the old SMG box.
I didn't say otherwise did I? confused

E21_Ross

34,941 posts

211 months

Thursday 22nd July 2010
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
E21_Ross said:
RobM77 said:
hondansx said:
For me, a bit of a hollow article. Didn't really give an idea of what the car was like to drive, or any kind of comparison with the competition. I think the car looks ridiculous with the spoiler too, and i'd rather it was slightly less hardcore (seats and no cage) for the sake of 70kg.

I'm really posting on here for the benefit of the ego-bulging-SMG-haters though. I regularly hear chatter about 'real drivers' wanting manual gearboxes. When you actually ask them to back up their opinions with experience, they've either only done a 5 minute test drive or are regurgitating the opinion of an ageing romantic who's written a piece in Autocar.

I was sceptical about my CSL having SMG, but after a week of getting used to it, i realised it suited the car perfectly. It allowed me to get more out of the car, and myself. Not to mention clutches are incredibly tiresome for the daily monotonous commute.

Ultimately, most people go for the paddle shift option when it comes to performance cars. The elitist/boorish few 'real drivers' who do their 3 or 4 track days a year should really except that the game has moved on. There are plenty of other 'issues' with modern cars to moan about...
And also the variety of systems available. Top Gear love to bander about the phrase "flappy paddle", but this can mean three things: the Mercedes AMG system is controlling a traditional automatic gearbox, the BMW SMG system is an automated manual, and Porsche, VAG and now Ferrari use a double clutch system. I've only ever tried the paddles on an automatic gearbox in an AMG Merc, which were ok on track, but I couldn't get on with it on the road at all. I'd like to try an SMG or DSG style box someday.
the new bmw gearboxes are basically the same as the dsg boxes, it's the DCT, double clutch transmission. very different from the old SMG box.
I didn't say otherwise did I? confused
no, just sounded like you didn't realise. my comment did sound rude, having just read it back hehe sorry about that

///Mike

862 posts

206 months

Thursday 22nd July 2010
quotequote all
Asterix said:
///Mike said:
I would still take an GT3 RS instead but this would be a very close second and more elite.
More elite than a Porsche GT3 RS? Not sure I agree with that.
I was making the assumption that there will be more GT3 RS's built and sold than the M3 GTS. I am not suggesting that its a better car by any stretch of the imagination.

Maybe 'Elite' was the wrong word.

I should have used the new 911 Sport Classic or whatever its called as an example. £140K for something that is dynamically hardly different to a 911 S at half the price.

Edited by ///Mike on Thursday 22 July 16:04

Josco010

143 posts

191 months

Wednesday 28th July 2010
quotequote all
Hi i really love this carcool but once again i feel the point has been missed, it is too heavy to be a track car to sparse to be an everyday car and also too expensive compared to the GT3rs which is very focused indeed. I wish being directed at real hardcore drivers it would have had a simple reliable 6spd box like the GT3rs and reduce more weight by ditching the complex box get rid of the electric windows and door pulls to give way for carbon fibre door cards and leave the 3990cc engine and bhp alone and just make it lighter and spend that money uprating the brakes, i am certain they would have saved nearly 150kg alone and the response would be razor sharp and purpose would be clearer "a la" the e30 m3. but the agenda may be different now as it is all about bragging rights of BHP and big cc's

I have an e30 m3 and a e34 //m5clap and for me, that was a time BMW were creating cars with motorsports running in their veins, now i feel its about competing for bhp and making targets and pedigree has been forsaken for making big bucks. A big shame reallyfrown