RS200, behind the scenes
Discussion
aeropilot said:
olly22n said:
aeropilot said:
Twincam16 said:
aeropilot said:
Carparticus said:
Legend has it that when the FIA inspectors turned up to check 200 had been put together, various sheds at Tamworth were packed with them but not all in one spot, but in between checking the management took the inspectors out for lunch or some such. During that break the cars were apparently shuffled around with previously counted cars rolled into unchecked sheds ! Some of the cars were apparently little more than rolling chassis too.
Ford was particularily good at pulling that type of stunt and had done so on many previous occasions over the years, as did most of the other manufacturers regarding homolgation inspections.
The first batch of handbuilt cars incl, for example WWC 465F were shown to the press wearing chrome Rostyle wheels and they were always shown as being an optional extra in the Twin Cam brochure through the life of the car, although, 99% of owners opted for the standard plain Lotus Cortina wheels + hub caps or splashed out on a set of Magnesium Minilites available through Boreham.
The storey was that by putting the distinctive Rostyles on these first cars, an adjacent car park full of ‘ordinary’ ermine white Escorts with Rostyles fitted would make them distinctively enough like a car park full of Twinks. It worked because Ford claimed 1000 made for Group 2 homolgation by May 1968 when it’s now known that they made a few hundred less than that in the entire 3 year production run of the car...
Edited by aeropilot on Saturday 17th July 14:37
thanks for sharing always loved the 200 :thunmbup:I've posted theses before but no harm in doing so again. My old man was heavily involved in the programme and my brother took the factory pics on a visit there:
Father ran several (four I think but two only briefly) as road cars over several years for Ford to test their suitability to regular road use, culminating in this (at the time the only) red one which was slightly more luxuriously fitted out than the earlier one. I've got a feeling his 1st one may even have been LHD...?
Father ran several (four I think but two only briefly) as road cars over several years for Ford to test their suitability to regular road use, culminating in this (at the time the only) red one which was slightly more luxuriously fitted out than the earlier one. I've got a feeling his 1st one may even have been LHD...?
mybrainhurts said:
Ford kept that one quiet...
Imagine the guffaws if it had sported a badge...RS200 Made By Reliant In Tamworth
I assume Jemmery will try to roll one, now the secret's out?
Quite common to subcontract out for small run cars. Volvo did for the P1800 with Reliant if memory serves, and Valmet Automotive and Magna Steyr are quite big manufacturers of other people's cars.Imagine the guffaws if it had sported a badge...RS200 Made By Reliant In Tamworth
I assume Jemmery will try to roll one, now the secret's out?
What I wondered at the time, and still wonder, is why Ford never put that styling into full production.
At the time the MR2 and RX7 were doing OK, the MX5 was still a few years off, but the feeling that mass produced two seaters were coming back was there.
The centre section was Ford Sierra so that already existed in mass production and a transverse engine could have replaced the more complex and expensive rally set up.
Instead of watching the success story of the MX5 they could have had a success story of their own. Group B captured the imagination and the RS200 is still well known today, Ford could have sold every one that hit the show rooms.
A missed opportunity.
OK, I suppose they might have done their sums and worked out that there was more money in churning out Escorts but it's still an interesting might have been.
At the time the MR2 and RX7 were doing OK, the MX5 was still a few years off, but the feeling that mass produced two seaters were coming back was there.
The centre section was Ford Sierra so that already existed in mass production and a transverse engine could have replaced the more complex and expensive rally set up.
Instead of watching the success story of the MX5 they could have had a success story of their own. Group B captured the imagination and the RS200 is still well known today, Ford could have sold every one that hit the show rooms.
A missed opportunity.
OK, I suppose they might have done their sums and worked out that there was more money in churning out Escorts but it's still an interesting might have been.
cymtriks said:
What I wondered at the time, and still wonder, is why Ford never put that styling into full production.
At the time the MR2 and RX7 were doing OK, the MX5 was still a few years off, but the feeling that mass produced two seaters were coming back was there.
The centre section was Ford Sierra so that already existed in mass production and a transverse engine could have replaced the more complex and expensive rally set up.
Instead of watching the success story of the MX5 they could have had a success story of their own. Group B captured the imagination and the RS200 is still well known today, Ford could have sold every one that hit the show rooms.
A missed opportunity.
OK, I suppose they might have done their sums and worked out that there was more money in churning out Escorts but it's still an interesting might have been.
Doesn't suprise me too much- Ford as an entity are typically quite conservative in terms of market products (and Im not talking about styling- witness the original Ford sierra and Mk1 Focus).At the time the MR2 and RX7 were doing OK, the MX5 was still a few years off, but the feeling that mass produced two seaters were coming back was there.
The centre section was Ford Sierra so that already existed in mass production and a transverse engine could have replaced the more complex and expensive rally set up.
Instead of watching the success story of the MX5 they could have had a success story of their own. Group B captured the imagination and the RS200 is still well known today, Ford could have sold every one that hit the show rooms.
A missed opportunity.
OK, I suppose they might have done their sums and worked out that there was more money in churning out Escorts but it's still an interesting might have been.
It took them ages to release a hatchback FWD Ford Escort when others had made the jump years before, the Fiesta Mk 1 came out in the late 70s, they ummed and erred about releasing a RWD RS2000 in the early nineties but ultmately didn't (although it would have without a doubt become a cult car and success, if not a commercial success, which would have had a halo effect on the range).
davepoth said:
mybrainhurts said:
Ford kept that one quiet...
Imagine the guffaws if it had sported a badge...RS200 Made By Reliant In Tamworth
I assume Jemmery will try to roll one, now the secret's out?
Quite common to subcontract out for small run cars. Volvo did for the P1800 with Reliant if memory serves, and Valmet Automotive and Magna Steyr are quite big manufacturers of other people's cars.Imagine the guffaws if it had sported a badge...RS200 Made By Reliant In Tamworth
I assume Jemmery will try to roll one, now the secret's out?
TheRoadWarrior said:
Good pictures
I never understood the whole dual-shock thing with the RS200... can anybody explain what the benefits are and how they outweigh the extra weight of having 2 springs/dampers/bushes etc?
Read a book about the 200 a few years ago the reason for the twin dampers was for added strength & adjustability as remember this was the early 80's.I never understood the whole dual-shock thing with the RS200... can anybody explain what the benefits are and how they outweigh the extra weight of having 2 springs/dampers/bushes etc?
Pat Dorans car was converted to modern bearing style single coilovers as with the modern tech 1 is sufficient.
My old man, who was contracted to Ford Motorsport at Boreham for years in the 1980s and 1990s, was intimately involved as an insider on the RS200 project for ther seven year period while it was in existence. Not only did he end up running a succession of four road cars over 85,000 miles, effectively as 'endurance cars' for the factory, but he also wrote the Owner's Manual, much of the catalogue material, and ran the factory-sponsored RS200 Club too. Since Motorsport Director Stuart Turner was also godfather to my brother and myself, you might say that he was definitely an insider.
He ran three white cars, and one painted in Ferrari Rosso Red (long story ....), and confirms that the first white car was left hand drive.
He has now read the entire thread, and hopes that the following detailed comment may clear up several mistakes and misunderstandings :
He ran three white cars, and one painted in Ferrari Rosso Red (long story ....), and confirms that the first white car was left hand drive.
He has now read the entire thread, and hopes that the following detailed comment may clear up several mistakes and misunderstandings :
Johnny's dad said:
i) The RS200 was not built by Reliant. It was built by Ford, the project director being Mike Moreton, who had already been the planning genius behind the Sierra RS Cosworth, and who would later go on to do the same job with the Sierra Cosworth 4x4, and the Escort RS Cosworth. He was later head-hunted by Tom Walkinshaw to master-mind the Jaguar XJ220 project.
Ford hired all the staff and fitters, Ford managed the plant. Reliant was not involved.
Reliant, however, provided most of the exterior body panels, which were built in GRP. The chassis, though, was provided by Arch, Ford/JKF did the engines themselves, and FF did the four-wheel-drive transmissions.
ii) The RS200 was not built at Tamworth, and never even went close to a three-wheeler, or the three-wheeler plant. It was built at a factory at Shenstone, which was six miles away. This was an ex-Reliant plant which had previously built engines for the three-wheelers, but which had been totally cleared. Ford found it while casting around in 1985 for somewhere to build the cars, and took up a lease for themselves. Reliant was not involved.
iii) Although the Reliant connection was not close, a number of the assembly staff had previously worked at Reliant, but had recently been maded redundant because Reliant was having a hard time. Some Reliant people also build moulds and mouldings for the body panels.
iv) Ford initiated, managed and completed the programme, with Mike Moreton at the helm. Reliant was never involved in the management of the project.
v) BL + Lancia staff certainly visited Shenstone, and drove cars, while the assembly project was active. There was nothing uniqie about this. Simply, it was done so that motorsport rivals could check on the car's progress towards homologation. It was all open and above board. Ford did the same thing themselves, for at this time one of the Boreham staff (John Griffiths) visited BMW (in connection with the M3), Lancia (Delta HF 4x4) and Audi (short-wheelbase Sport Quattro).
vi) There was no such thing as a 'Yamaha engine' in the Taurus SHO. Yamaha provided design/development advice only for such engines, but the final product was a Ford-USA project. Very very little work was ever done on the idea of producing a 2WD version of the RS200, especially once it became known that it was going to be a loss-maker. I certainly attended one meeting, chaired by Mike Moreton, in which certain possibilities were raised, but the project was tentative, very provisional, and no design work was ever carried out, Chief rally engineer John Wheeler was up to his neck in the RS200E project by then, and did not have any time.
vii) The 'factory fire' story is true, the fire being in the unit next door to the RS200 facility. It happened on a late Friday afternoon when the vast majority of staff had clocked off. Mike Moreton was one of only a handful of people still on the premises, and reputedly pushed some completed cars away from the wall in case it caught fire. It did not ....
viii) I can confirm that more than 200 sets of everything were certainly produced, but I can also confirm that because there was such a mighty rush to get the programme completed before the 1 February 1986 deadline, that some cars were by no means complete at final FIA inspection time. Ford knew this, the FIA inspectors knew this, and secrecy was not involved.
This was normal in Group B at the time - and I have authenticated evidence of the same being done in the MG Metro 6R4 and Audi Sport Quattro programmes, for instance.
ix) I can also confirm that Escort Twin-Cam homologation was achieved well in advance of the 1,000 cars being finished, but I can also confirm that more than 1,000 such cars were eventually built at the Halewood factory. The circumstances and - more important - the actual month-by-month production figures, have been published in more than one authoritative book on the subject.
I hope this helps - I could add more boring detail if anyone needs it.
Ford hired all the staff and fitters, Ford managed the plant. Reliant was not involved.
Reliant, however, provided most of the exterior body panels, which were built in GRP. The chassis, though, was provided by Arch, Ford/JKF did the engines themselves, and FF did the four-wheel-drive transmissions.
ii) The RS200 was not built at Tamworth, and never even went close to a three-wheeler, or the three-wheeler plant. It was built at a factory at Shenstone, which was six miles away. This was an ex-Reliant plant which had previously built engines for the three-wheelers, but which had been totally cleared. Ford found it while casting around in 1985 for somewhere to build the cars, and took up a lease for themselves. Reliant was not involved.
iii) Although the Reliant connection was not close, a number of the assembly staff had previously worked at Reliant, but had recently been maded redundant because Reliant was having a hard time. Some Reliant people also build moulds and mouldings for the body panels.
iv) Ford initiated, managed and completed the programme, with Mike Moreton at the helm. Reliant was never involved in the management of the project.
v) BL + Lancia staff certainly visited Shenstone, and drove cars, while the assembly project was active. There was nothing uniqie about this. Simply, it was done so that motorsport rivals could check on the car's progress towards homologation. It was all open and above board. Ford did the same thing themselves, for at this time one of the Boreham staff (John Griffiths) visited BMW (in connection with the M3), Lancia (Delta HF 4x4) and Audi (short-wheelbase Sport Quattro).
vi) There was no such thing as a 'Yamaha engine' in the Taurus SHO. Yamaha provided design/development advice only for such engines, but the final product was a Ford-USA project. Very very little work was ever done on the idea of producing a 2WD version of the RS200, especially once it became known that it was going to be a loss-maker. I certainly attended one meeting, chaired by Mike Moreton, in which certain possibilities were raised, but the project was tentative, very provisional, and no design work was ever carried out, Chief rally engineer John Wheeler was up to his neck in the RS200E project by then, and did not have any time.
vii) The 'factory fire' story is true, the fire being in the unit next door to the RS200 facility. It happened on a late Friday afternoon when the vast majority of staff had clocked off. Mike Moreton was one of only a handful of people still on the premises, and reputedly pushed some completed cars away from the wall in case it caught fire. It did not ....
viii) I can confirm that more than 200 sets of everything were certainly produced, but I can also confirm that because there was such a mighty rush to get the programme completed before the 1 February 1986 deadline, that some cars were by no means complete at final FIA inspection time. Ford knew this, the FIA inspectors knew this, and secrecy was not involved.
This was normal in Group B at the time - and I have authenticated evidence of the same being done in the MG Metro 6R4 and Audi Sport Quattro programmes, for instance.
ix) I can also confirm that Escort Twin-Cam homologation was achieved well in advance of the 1,000 cars being finished, but I can also confirm that more than 1,000 such cars were eventually built at the Halewood factory. The circumstances and - more important - the actual month-by-month production figures, have been published in more than one authoritative book on the subject.
I hope this helps - I could add more boring detail if anyone needs it.
Edited by Johnnytheboy on Sunday 18th July 09:17
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