RE: SOTW: Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6
Discussion
I had a 2.0l T Spark one of these and I can honestly say nothing went wrong on it (even I was suprised!).
Still one of the best places to sit or as many have said, one of the best looking, sounding and handling saloons around.
Shame the boot aperture was small, the top of the door frame stabbed you in throat when you opened the door if you weren't paying attention and the timing belt was a wallet popping £450 to do.
Great shed.
So tempted..........
Still one of the best places to sit or as many have said, one of the best looking, sounding and handling saloons around.
Shame the boot aperture was small, the top of the door frame stabbed you in throat when you opened the door if you weren't paying attention and the timing belt was a wallet popping £450 to do.
Great shed.
So tempted..........
Wolands Advocate said:
Oilchange said:
If a car maker makes it difficult to change something in its design then Alfa wont be the first will they? Just look at some of the threads about changing headlight bulbs. Horror stories of bumpers coming off and allsorts.
Yes, forgot about that. No one with normal fingers can change bulbs (esp the front side-lights) on a 156 without immense difficulty.
t in that department.Dave_ST220 said:
Wolands Advocate said:
Oilchange said:
If a car maker makes it difficult to change something in its design then Alfa wont be the first will they? Just look at some of the threads about changing headlight bulbs. Horror stories of bumpers coming off and allsorts.
Yes, forgot about that. No one with normal fingers can change bulbs (esp the front side-lights) on a 156 without immense difficulty.t in that department.[quote=ExPat2B][img]http://douging.smugmug.com/photos/48635847-L.jpg[/
fit some shiney pipes and forget about the infamous problems with this engine.
What are the infamous problems with this engine? Agreed about the sound, for me the 12v alfa v6 was much more special. Still loved my 24v though.
fit some shiney pipes and forget about the infamous problems with this engine.
What are the infamous problems with this engine? Agreed about the sound, for me the 12v alfa v6 was much more special. Still loved my 24v though.
Edited by exgtt on Friday 16th July 14:18
I think Alfas are very sexy cars.
I was put off by the reliability issues, but took the plunge earlier this year and bought an Alfa Red 166 2.0 TS.
I was a little scepticle, as 50% of the Alfa adverts I saw were for 'spares or repairs'!
The car proved to be 100% reliable, not one thing went wrong with it, it had a high spec, was an ex-demo model, etc, and got so many admiring glances every where it went!
Not quite the build quality of it's German rivals, and it did feel al ittle under-powered with the 2.0 TS engine, but in a weird way, it put a smile on your face every time you drove it!
Like alot of people, I would curse about owning one - but, you actually have to own and drive one to appreciate the hype about these cars.
Go on - take a punt!
I was put off by the reliability issues, but took the plunge earlier this year and bought an Alfa Red 166 2.0 TS.
I was a little scepticle, as 50% of the Alfa adverts I saw were for 'spares or repairs'!
The car proved to be 100% reliable, not one thing went wrong with it, it had a high spec, was an ex-demo model, etc, and got so many admiring glances every where it went!
Not quite the build quality of it's German rivals, and it did feel al ittle under-powered with the 2.0 TS engine, but in a weird way, it put a smile on your face every time you drove it!
Like alot of people, I would curse about owning one - but, you actually have to own and drive one to appreciate the hype about these cars.
Go on - take a punt!
The infamous problems are :
Top ends failing due to cambelt snapping. And what is Alfa's response ? Change it at 36,000 miles. This is a crap response, and shows how they refuse to stand by their products. When Rover had a problem with the Headgasket in the K series they redesigned it 3 times, and made the parts ( metal dowels, gasket and thermosat ) available to the public. Alfa just say change it more frequently.
Engines failing due to Oil starvation/bearing failure. I have heard a number of excuses from the fanboys about why this is so, ranging from blaming the owners ( I love that reponse, blame your customer ) but the facts are that there seem to be more Alfa out there with replacement engines than any other cars, and I have personally viewed Alfa with replacement engines, and seen Alfa in the scrappy with failed engines, so have some first hand knowledge of the issues.
Some survey results for Alfa :
FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001. 9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Only 87% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems; 2001-2003 average for breakdowns and poor for problems and faults in 2003 Which survey. 7th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 156 8th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. Alfa Romeo 5th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £392.88 with high 39.55 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk Came 16th from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 74.7%
But don't worry about all that. Just keep fapping to those shiny pipes.
Top ends failing due to cambelt snapping. And what is Alfa's response ? Change it at 36,000 miles. This is a crap response, and shows how they refuse to stand by their products. When Rover had a problem with the Headgasket in the K series they redesigned it 3 times, and made the parts ( metal dowels, gasket and thermosat ) available to the public. Alfa just say change it more frequently.
Engines failing due to Oil starvation/bearing failure. I have heard a number of excuses from the fanboys about why this is so, ranging from blaming the owners ( I love that reponse, blame your customer ) but the facts are that there seem to be more Alfa out there with replacement engines than any other cars, and I have personally viewed Alfa with replacement engines, and seen Alfa in the scrappy with failed engines, so have some first hand knowledge of the issues.
Some survey results for Alfa :
FIAT/Alfa joint worst for breakdowns attended by German ADAC during 2001. 9th from Bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 18th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. Alfa Romeo had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index Joint fourth bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 74 cars surveyed. Alfa Romeo 2nd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; 3rd least reliable cars 1997 - 1999. Only 87% breakdown free in 2003 Which survey. Alfa Romeo had fourth highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 155.10 v/s lowest 31.93). 98-2000 average for breakdowns and faults and poor for problems; 2001-2003 average for breakdowns and poor for problems and faults in 2003 Which survey. 7th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 156 8th bottom model and Alfa Romeo bottom marque in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. Alfa Romeo 5th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £392.88 with high 39.55 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk Came 16th from bottom in 2005 JD Power/What Car Survey of 23,000 cars reg Sep 2002 to Aug 2003 with satisfaction score of 74.7%
But don't worry about all that. Just keep fapping to those shiny pipes.
OK, Alfa fan. Love them. But, worked for Audi for last 7 years so not delusional...
They do need more looking after but do it yourself and it'll be cheap. Change the oil, do the belts etc etc etc...
We are talking about cheap cars that, generally, appeal to enthusiasts (like PH people) who don't mind getting involved.
I bought a 99T 156 1.8TS 2 yrs ago (took it in p/ex from italian gent) 1 owner, 58k £900. Did belts oil etc straight away, thermostat soon after. Doesn't use oil between changes, sounds great, a/c crap, hasn't needed anything other than clearing out sunroof drainpipes..
Used to sell them and that didn't put me off - they aren't as reliable as the germans or the japanese. Accept that, do the work, USE it and no worries. Expect too much, do too little and park it up for weekend use only, expect misery in a beautiful form. Whatever happened to Walter da Silva?
They do need more looking after but do it yourself and it'll be cheap. Change the oil, do the belts etc etc etc...
We are talking about cheap cars that, generally, appeal to enthusiasts (like PH people) who don't mind getting involved.
I bought a 99T 156 1.8TS 2 yrs ago (took it in p/ex from italian gent) 1 owner, 58k £900. Did belts oil etc straight away, thermostat soon after. Doesn't use oil between changes, sounds great, a/c crap, hasn't needed anything other than clearing out sunroof drainpipes..
Used to sell them and that didn't put me off - they aren't as reliable as the germans or the japanese. Accept that, do the work, USE it and no worries. Expect too much, do too little and park it up for weekend use only, expect misery in a beautiful form. Whatever happened to Walter da Silva?
IMO the best sounding Alfa ever, was the 1980s GTV6 fitted with the standard exhaust.
None of the later V6 cars ever came close to that, and actually, I think the GTV6 itself lost something when fitted with aftermarket systems.
As to this week's shed, nice car, but I think the BMW 328i they had the other week makes a better job of it.
None of the later V6 cars ever came close to that, and actually, I think the GTV6 itself lost something when fitted with aftermarket systems.
As to this week's shed, nice car, but I think the BMW 328i they had the other week makes a better job of it.
Wolands Advocate said:
Oilchange said:
If a car maker makes it difficult to change something in its design then Alfa wont be the first will they? Just look at some of the threads about changing headlight bulbs. Horror stories of bumpers coming off and allsorts.
Yes, forgot about that. No one with normal fingers can change bulbs (esp the front side-lights) on a 156 without immense difficulty.Yet the Scenic is a garage job to do a headlight bulb on & is around 2 hours as bumpers etc have to come off. And a mate with an M3 paid a BMW main stealer £80 as he couldn't do the bulb himself... But that's OK it is only Alfa's that have issues.
I had a 75 fantastic, general wear & tear servicing apart from a pinion bearing which the warranty paid for.
The 156 JTD SW I ran in the last 6 months needed a clutch, an airbag ECU, a few bushes & an HP diesel pump this was after 100K of hard driven miles. The pump was a pain as it is a german Bosch bit & even Bosch couldn't diagnose it. Otherwise it was pretty good over the 70K & 3 years.
Oilchange said:
If a car maker makes it difficult to change something in its design then Alfa wont be the first will they? Just look at some of the threads about changing headlight bulbs. Horror stories of bumpers coming off and allsorts.
Good point. But a blown bulb won't result in blown engine will it?As soon as I saw the 156 was shed of the week, I just knew certain contributors who never miss an opportunity to give Alfa a kicking, even though they have never owned one would not resist wading in.
I've now had my 156 for 4 years and 48,000 miles, 21,000 of which have been down in the last 15 months alone. The only issue I've had is the rad which is now about knackered, then again the car is 12 years old now.
I know many, many 156 owners who have been very happy with their cars, however that's boring and not what the detractors want to hear.
I've now had my 156 for 4 years and 48,000 miles, 21,000 of which have been down in the last 15 months alone. The only issue I've had is the rad which is now about knackered, then again the car is 12 years old now.
I know many, many 156 owners who have been very happy with their cars, however that's boring and not what the detractors want to hear.
Sorry 187-189 BHP you are right, thanks for the correction... :-)
I can't believe BMW people are having a go at Alfas...just look at the thing! BMW look s*it compared to any Alfa and this car won:
1998 Italian Super Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
1999 Italian Super Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2000 European Super Touring Car Cup Winner - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2001 FIA European Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2002 FIA European Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Super 2000, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2003 FIA European Touring Car Championship – Alfa Romeo 156 Super 2000, Gabriele Tarquini
Possibly kicking a BMW or two? :-)
I can't believe BMW people are having a go at Alfas...just look at the thing! BMW look s*it compared to any Alfa and this car won:
1998 Italian Super Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
1999 Italian Super Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2000 European Super Touring Car Cup Winner - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2001 FIA European Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 D2, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2002 FIA European Touring Car Championship - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Super 2000, Fabrizio Giovanardi
2003 FIA European Touring Car Championship – Alfa Romeo 156 Super 2000, Gabriele Tarquini
Possibly kicking a BMW or two? :-)
Oilchange said:
The twinnie does but then so does a mates S2000 and another mates RX8. In fact if you don't watch those rotaries they will drink it dry! Then BANG
The difference being that rotaries deliberately use oil to lubricate the rotor seals, Alfas just use it for fun. Anyone allowing an RX8 to drink itself dry is a moron that didn't pay attention to either the handbook or the hand over talk that dealer's give and deserves their fate. As for the S2000, none I've come across use oil at all. Some K20s, my own old EP3 Civic Type R included, would use oil in the first few thousand miles but Hondas are generally very goo don that front. My current Impreza hasn't used a drop of oil between services in 18 months, despite having twice the bhp of the featured car.Peppka said:
Too right RX8 couldn't even begin to keep up with my V6 GTV especially as just had Q2 diff fitted.
Really? Because both of mine (a 230 and a PZ) would happily keep up with 147 and 156 GTAs in a straight line and piss all over them at the first sign of a corner. Don't get me wrong, I love Alfas and had one years ago (which is why I've never owned two, of course) but modern Alfas hardly drive well and offer scant compensation for the reliability issues, design flaws, poor dealers and factory build quality equivalent of a 3 year old doing Jenga. The latest design direction even robs of them of the lovely styling, with the MiTo, in particular, being a horrific abortion of a car which is made worse when you realise it's based on the Grande Punto, one of the best looking small cars in the past 30 years. Like most past Alfa owners, I'd love to have another one. My 33 P4 was a pile of crap, yet the hankering still lingers. But we are constantly told, "this timewe've got it right" and they never do. Hell, they said that about the 156......and the 33 for that matter.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff