Discussion
Vladimir said:
The wife just called in a slight flap - our 335d just did a major fishtail with no provocation at all. She knows the car VERY well and that would never happen on the CSC2s.
If I'd known about this warmer weather behaviour that's borderline dangerous, I wouldn't have bothered. Of course I found out too late.
I'd get them on a 4x4 but on a powerful RWD car, no way.
Expensive mistake learned.
Before writing them off, have you driven the car with them on? Maybe she hit a patch of diesel? Who knows what happened?If I'd known about this warmer weather behaviour that's borderline dangerous, I wouldn't have bothered. Of course I found out too late.
I'd get them on a 4x4 but on a powerful RWD car, no way.
Expensive mistake learned.
There now seem to be a 'winter tyres backlash' starting up from people who haven't had experience of them before and are having traction issues in the current, relatively mild, conditions.
I think a lot of this can be explained as being the initial reactions of people who haven't had experience of driving on winter tyres before.
The first time I drove on winters was with a rental VW in the Alps several years ago. As is the tradition with rentals, I drove it like I'd stolen it from the moment I left the airport. I didn't know it had winter tyres fitted when I got in it, but I could tell something was different when I powered through the first fast sweeping bends I came across on the way to the motorway.
No turn-in, car felt like it wanted to fall over, less front-end grip, all very wobbly! Immediately thought something was wrong with the tyres (suspected pressures, as you do) and gave them a good look over which is when I spotted they were winters. Learnt something at that moment.
I had made an assumption that car would behave the same way as all the other rentals I'd driven before it and those tyres caught me out, but once I understood they can't do everything as well as summer tyres, I adapted and looked forward to getting into the mountains to try them out on snow.
So, please don't write off winter tyres until you've had more time and experience driving on them for a while in all conditions, including properly wintery ones.
Good post Freddy.
For years the only winter tyres I'd driven on were studdedtyres. This was because the locals swore by studded and general opinion was very negative about these new fangled friction tyres. To be fair, for specific reasons, studded tyres are still imo, the tyre of choice in that region, but studless have improved technically and in market share beyond all recognition of those days.
ANyway I digress. I was used to the relatively poorer grip and stability of studded tyres on clear roads, so my first experience on studless was also a hire car, a Golf. My expectations were that the grip on the clear roads out from Munich towards the Austrian border would be good, better than studded, and indeed that was the case. My expectations for when I hit snow and ice were not great, as the previous year I'd slithered at slow speed across a hotel car park with the ABS having a the screaming ab dabs, even though I'd entered at less than walking pace. Though that was another rental car but on normal tyres.
Anyway when I got to the snowy roads it was a real wtf moment, grip, lateral and longitudinal, was amazing. Of course temperatures were at levels where the tyres would be expected to work properly.
Once I tried studless elsewhere it was clear that the grip is not as good at warmer temperatures, but at the risk of using the words often by anti-winter tyres advocates it's simply a case of driving to the conditions.
Of course it could be that these Yokos are in the category of very poor, but having stuck to only premium brands the state of dangerously unstable or similar is something I don't recognise.
For years the only winter tyres I'd driven on were studdedtyres. This was because the locals swore by studded and general opinion was very negative about these new fangled friction tyres. To be fair, for specific reasons, studded tyres are still imo, the tyre of choice in that region, but studless have improved technically and in market share beyond all recognition of those days.
ANyway I digress. I was used to the relatively poorer grip and stability of studded tyres on clear roads, so my first experience on studless was also a hire car, a Golf. My expectations were that the grip on the clear roads out from Munich towards the Austrian border would be good, better than studded, and indeed that was the case. My expectations for when I hit snow and ice were not great, as the previous year I'd slithered at slow speed across a hotel car park with the ABS having a the screaming ab dabs, even though I'd entered at less than walking pace. Though that was another rental car but on normal tyres.
Anyway when I got to the snowy roads it was a real wtf moment, grip, lateral and longitudinal, was amazing. Of course temperatures were at levels where the tyres would be expected to work properly.
Once I tried studless elsewhere it was clear that the grip is not as good at warmer temperatures, but at the risk of using the words often by anti-winter tyres advocates it's simply a case of driving to the conditions.
Of course it could be that these Yokos are in the category of very poor, but having stuck to only premium brands the state of dangerously unstable or similar is something I don't recognise.
DasChin said:
ref tyre pressures for winters is the advice to run a few PSi more then?
Q5 is 30 all round normally so maybe 32 on winters?
wife's a3 is 38 front and 35 rear so maybe 40 and 36 (high I know but that is the recommendation from audi!!)
thanks, DC
Every car has a manual which contains details on what pressures to run summer and winter tyres, along with recommendtions on sizes. Both my cars have this informaiton on the door pillar of the car - I know some cars won't have this, of course.Q5 is 30 all round normally so maybe 32 on winters?
wife's a3 is 38 front and 35 rear so maybe 40 and 36 (high I know but that is the recommendation from audi!!)
thanks, DC
FurtiveFreddy said:
If all else fails, just show her this:
Tee hee!She's quite a petrol head though. Learned to drive in her dad's new Impreza turbo wagon, took her test in a Defender pick up, had use of the Scooby when I first met her. She was even insured on the F355 they had!
She's made the odd balls up but I do trust her. She wants to do IAM Bd other training too. And is as excited as me (well almost) about the incoming new car.
Tyre pressure raised slightly, two pressure gauges used an averaged to ensure precision.
Just driven it and tried to provoke it - one slightly odd fishtail (easily corrected) and a fair bit of TCS light action but nothing too bad. It could be that BMWs are just VERY sensitive to pressures.
Just driven it and tried to provoke it - one slightly odd fishtail (easily corrected) and a fair bit of TCS light action but nothing too bad. It could be that BMWs are just VERY sensitive to pressures.
Vladimir said:
Tyre pressure raised slightly, two pressure gauges used an averaged to ensure precision.
Just driven it and tried to provoke it - one slightly odd fishtail (easily corrected) and a fair bit of TCS light action but nothing too bad. It could be that BMWs are just VERY sensitive to pressures.
Or that your wife likes to rag the arse out of your car when you're not around.Just driven it and tried to provoke it - one slightly odd fishtail (easily corrected) and a fair bit of TCS light action but nothing too bad. It could be that BMWs are just VERY sensitive to pressures.
In view of Vlad's comments, I gave my Box' Ice Ts some stick on the way into work tonight.
Spun them up big time pulling out of a tee junction, tiptronic changed down to first and only the LSD got me going.
Accelerated hard up an over a bridge and she got very squirrily!
On both occations the roads was damp and slippy, and although not certain, I think I got that diesely smell on the tee junction corner.
So yes they can be provoked to spin up, but I suspect my summers would have done the same.
Spun them up big time pulling out of a tee junction, tiptronic changed down to first and only the LSD got me going.
Accelerated hard up an over a bridge and she got very squirrily!
On both occations the roads was damp and slippy, and although not certain, I think I got that diesely smell on the tee junction corner.
So yes they can be provoked to spin up, but I suspect my summers would have done the same.
People talk about the crossover temperature and 7C, which I reckon is a bit high these days but it all depends upon what is being compared with what and under which conditions.
There's been a fair bit of negative stuff written the last few weeks about people struggling with some winters in warmer conditions.
It can work the other way as mentioned a few hundred pages back. Had changedback from the winters to the P7s at the weekend one early spring. They had been fine as was the weather.
Yet Monday morning going into the office there was a stretch of NSL with sweeping bends, not damp but not dry, quite cold 2/3 deg and even taking it steady there was a squeaky bum moment. The winters, Conti TS830s iirc would have been glued down.
There's been a fair bit of negative stuff written the last few weeks about people struggling with some winters in warmer conditions.
It can work the other way as mentioned a few hundred pages back. Had changedback from the winters to the P7s at the weekend one early spring. They had been fine as was the weather.
Yet Monday morning going into the office there was a stretch of NSL with sweeping bends, not damp but not dry, quite cold 2/3 deg and even taking it steady there was a squeaky bum moment. The winters, Conti TS830s iirc would have been glued down.
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