Winter vs summer tyres - comprehensive review?
Discussion
jon- said:
The summer tyre also did a better job of aquaplaning than the all season or winter.
By that, do you mean that the summer tyres were better at aquaplaning (i.e. undesirable) or that they were better at preventing aquaplaning (i.e. desirable)!The last 2 winters I've had some dodgy moments even in a 4x4 and so I've invested in some winter tyres for this year (Vredestein Wintrac 4's, like many here) on a spare set of alloys, so it will be interesting to see how they work out. Cue the mildest winter in living memory, no doubt...
PhilboSE said:
jon- said:
The summer tyre also did a better job of aquaplaning than the all season or winter.
By that, do you mean that the summer tyres were better at aquaplaning (i.e. undesirable) or that they were better at preventing aquaplaning (i.e. desirable)!The last 2 winters I've had some dodgy moments even in a 4x4 and so I've invested in some winter tyres for this year (Vredestein Wintrac 4's, like many here) on a spare set of alloys, so it will be interesting to see how they work out. Cue the mildest winter in living memory, no doubt...
That said, the summer tyre benchmark was high, being the Bridgestone ER300 which is a bit of an aquaplaning specialist.
Edited by jon- on Monday 4th October 13:46
I’ve had a good look at all the information and a useful comparison of tyres is provided above. Main considerations seem to be:
Winter tyre pros –
1. Excel in snow, icy and very cold conditions; and
2. Could save wear on your summer tyres in extremely cold conditions (near zero).
Issues and potential cons –
1. Winter tyres are designed to operate in temps below 7c. Using them in warmer conditions could lead to excessive wear (in many parts of the UK, the average daytime winter temperature exceeds 7c);
2. Just because the winter tyres are designed for use below 7c, it doesn’t mean that summer tyres are unsuitable. Any performance benefits in non-icy / snow conditions appear to be marginal (at best);
3. Winter tyres are softer and you need at least 3mm of tread depth, you will need to change them more often than summer tyres.
4. In warmer conditions, winter tyres perform significantly poorer than summer tyres. This could be a safety issue.
So if the temperature isn’t rising above 7c and there’s a significant snow / ice risk, then winter tyres may well be worth the investment. But the possible negatives are rarely discussed.
Sorry for multiple threads, can they be merged?
Winter tyre pros –
1. Excel in snow, icy and very cold conditions; and
2. Could save wear on your summer tyres in extremely cold conditions (near zero).
Issues and potential cons –
1. Winter tyres are designed to operate in temps below 7c. Using them in warmer conditions could lead to excessive wear (in many parts of the UK, the average daytime winter temperature exceeds 7c);
2. Just because the winter tyres are designed for use below 7c, it doesn’t mean that summer tyres are unsuitable. Any performance benefits in non-icy / snow conditions appear to be marginal (at best);
3. Winter tyres are softer and you need at least 3mm of tread depth, you will need to change them more often than summer tyres.
4. In warmer conditions, winter tyres perform significantly poorer than summer tyres. This could be a safety issue.
So if the temperature isn’t rising above 7c and there’s a significant snow / ice risk, then winter tyres may well be worth the investment. But the possible negatives are rarely discussed.
Sorry for multiple threads, can they be merged?
If you do a lot of miles during the day then a "winter bias all season" tyre might be more suited for you, something like the Goodyear Vector 4Seasons would offer 80% of the snow performance but greater dry handling and wear in warm conditions.
I run my daughters car on avon Ice tyres all year round, dry performance as good as a summer tyre, rain performance loads better, stopping in the wet is vastly improved.
Winter performance not surprisingly is great.
I did contact avon before purchase, spoke to a real person. I was concerned about the winter tyres overheating in the summer, Avon confirmed there would be no overheating problems regardless of all year use, just a gentle warning that ‘with the tyre compound’ we may see higher tyre wear.
We have not noticed any high tyre wear and have ran these for over a year.
Sean
Winter performance not surprisingly is great.
I did contact avon before purchase, spoke to a real person. I was concerned about the winter tyres overheating in the summer, Avon confirmed there would be no overheating problems regardless of all year use, just a gentle warning that ‘with the tyre compound’ we may see higher tyre wear.
We have not noticed any high tyre wear and have ran these for over a year.
Sean
jon- said:
Yes. I'm working on converting the autobild all season tyre test which included a summer and winter tyre, I'll link it once it's done but here are the headline stats you're after.
Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering
As promised to the OP: http://tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-...Snow: Summer tyre offered 48% braking and 51% of the cornering of winter
Warm wet: Winter tyre offered 90% braking and 95% cornering of the summer tyre
Dry: Winter tyre offered 83% braking and 97% of the cornering
Hi sorry to add my question to this conversation but seems like there people here who know what they are talking about.I am looking for winter tyres for my mondeo for driving down too alps this winter.I have never had winter tyres on before so was wondering what things to look out for when buying.I have been on my tyres and there are so many brands i have never heard of before so dont know if they are any good.I have seen some called avon ice touring which seem to be good priced.So if anyone has any tips and advice it would be much appreciated.Thanks chris
nbetts said:
I used to read the whole winter tyre thing from afar - and enjoyed the banter between the 'Tis all down to driver skill' brigade and the 'Optimum tyre for conditions' brigade.
Anyway, that was then. Nowadays I am truly converted. My friend and I took a drive from good Old Blighty last December (think frozen Eurostar trains stuck in tunnels - we got the last Shuttle out before the closures) to VW Wolfsburg, for a Factory Visit. He is a big VW buff and he decided he wanted to drive his 4WD R32 Golf to the factory from whence it came - so we set off...
Cue, massive snowfalls and temperatures as low as -18 degrees C in the Fatherland -
My point?
Simple, we were riding on the normal summer performance OEM tyre that ships with the 4WD R32 to the UK - and we could not go anywhere without major difficulty - how we ever got into the Town of Kassel without a major incident I am still amazed at to this day. I was astonished at the numerous BMW 1,3,5 series flying past us in the treachorous conditions and pulling to a controlled stop at every street corner - where, by way of comparison, in the 4WD Golf had to plan our every move about 5 minutes in advance. And we all know the RWD Beemers are crap in the snow - I have one.
With much head scratching - I asked one of the locals in his rear wheel drive 1 - series how the hell he was finding it so easy to get about - I drive a 1-Series in the UK and the slightest dusting of snow and you may as well walk - The German Local, who laughed at us 'Crazy Englishmen' the words "Winter Reifen"
Winter Reifen is German for, yes you guessed it, Winter Tyres.
So we booked an appointment in Reifen.com in the town of Kassel and had our winter reifen fitted to the car and the summer tyres stashed into the back of the Golf in tyre bags...
The rest is history as they say. The transformation from the Summer to Winter Tyres was like Night and Day. We could drive normally everywhere, pull-up at a junction without planning. Conduct lane manouveres without thinking of the Final Will and testament... and all that bum-clenching terror just dissapeared.
We returned from Germany - to a Snow covered Blighty. Where I tried to move my 1-Series BMW shod with Summer run-flats off of my mates drive in Tunbridge Wells - only to find the car would not get off the drive due to lack of grip. It stayed there for another week.
So there you have it.
I have ordered my Winter Reifen/Tyres already for my Beemer and they will go on - in a few weeks time when the weather has chilled a bit further.
Optimal tyres for conditions should always be on your car. Below 7 Degrees C - Winter Tyres are better suited. Not to mention Snow and ice.
Great post Anyway, that was then. Nowadays I am truly converted. My friend and I took a drive from good Old Blighty last December (think frozen Eurostar trains stuck in tunnels - we got the last Shuttle out before the closures) to VW Wolfsburg, for a Factory Visit. He is a big VW buff and he decided he wanted to drive his 4WD R32 Golf to the factory from whence it came - so we set off...
Cue, massive snowfalls and temperatures as low as -18 degrees C in the Fatherland -
My point?
Simple, we were riding on the normal summer performance OEM tyre that ships with the 4WD R32 to the UK - and we could not go anywhere without major difficulty - how we ever got into the Town of Kassel without a major incident I am still amazed at to this day. I was astonished at the numerous BMW 1,3,5 series flying past us in the treachorous conditions and pulling to a controlled stop at every street corner - where, by way of comparison, in the 4WD Golf had to plan our every move about 5 minutes in advance. And we all know the RWD Beemers are crap in the snow - I have one.
With much head scratching - I asked one of the locals in his rear wheel drive 1 - series how the hell he was finding it so easy to get about - I drive a 1-Series in the UK and the slightest dusting of snow and you may as well walk - The German Local, who laughed at us 'Crazy Englishmen' the words "Winter Reifen"
Winter Reifen is German for, yes you guessed it, Winter Tyres.
So we booked an appointment in Reifen.com in the town of Kassel and had our winter reifen fitted to the car and the summer tyres stashed into the back of the Golf in tyre bags...
The rest is history as they say. The transformation from the Summer to Winter Tyres was like Night and Day. We could drive normally everywhere, pull-up at a junction without planning. Conduct lane manouveres without thinking of the Final Will and testament... and all that bum-clenching terror just dissapeared.
We returned from Germany - to a Snow covered Blighty. Where I tried to move my 1-Series BMW shod with Summer run-flats off of my mates drive in Tunbridge Wells - only to find the car would not get off the drive due to lack of grip. It stayed there for another week.
So there you have it.
I have ordered my Winter Reifen/Tyres already for my Beemer and they will go on - in a few weeks time when the weather has chilled a bit further.
Optimal tyres for conditions should always be on your car. Below 7 Degrees C - Winter Tyres are better suited. Not to mention Snow and ice.
Edited by nbetts on Monday 4th October 11:06
cchrish0 said:
Hi sorry to add my question to this conversation but seems like there people here who know what they are talking about.I am looking for winter tyres for my mondeo for driving down too alps this winter.I have never had winter tyres on before so was wondering what things to look out for when buying.I have been on my tyres and there are so many brands i have never heard of before so dont know if they are any good.I have seen some called avon ice touring which seem to be good priced.So if anyone has any tips and advice it would be much appreciated.Thanks chris
You can :1.Buy a make you've heard of before, or
2.Read the reviews on mytyres-you may need to use a web translator unless your German is good.Or
3.You can save yourself all that translating by checking out the winter tyre tests available and already translated for you on tyrereviews.co.uk.
Most people seem to make good choices of winter tyres from Continental, Vredestein, Dunlop, Nokian, Goodyear, Pirelli, Michelin, Avon.
Often choice for a prticular size can be limited, so hav a look at the reviews ,see which tyres suit your requirements, and usually if a tyre is near the top of the results, or at least hasn't had any major weaknesses flagged up your choice should be sound.
Personally, I would stay clear of the nankngs, linglongs and pispoors.
I've run snow tyres (Vredenstein 18s) and summer tyres (Conti 19s) on both an Alpina B5 and 545i. I have driven in all conditions on both tyres.
In the winter the cars were unusable and dangerous in snow on the summer 275/30/19, whereas they were perfectly usable on snow tyres (245/40/18).
In the dry and warm the snow tyres do not offer the same level of grip as the summer tyres and roll more, but that is likely due to the different profile. However they still allow the car to be driven faster than most people would consider acceptable.
I'm just awaiting delivery of the snow tyres for my wifes 320d this week and they'll be going on at the first sign of really cold weather (I have them coming on steel wheels from Germany in the same cost-effective way they all fit them).
In the winter the cars were unusable and dangerous in snow on the summer 275/30/19, whereas they were perfectly usable on snow tyres (245/40/18).
In the dry and warm the snow tyres do not offer the same level of grip as the summer tyres and roll more, but that is likely due to the different profile. However they still allow the car to be driven faster than most people would consider acceptable.
I'm just awaiting delivery of the snow tyres for my wifes 320d this week and they'll be going on at the first sign of really cold weather (I have them coming on steel wheels from Germany in the same cost-effective way they all fit them).
jwo said:
My nokian tyres are due to be fitted to spare rims this week! Longterm weather forecasts for the winter are starting to roll in now... Similar to last winter...
Did you get the WR's?Nokians are the dogs danglies and I would have got some had I not got a bleedin puncture last winter and had to get whatever I could find at the time. Seeing as your not supposed to mix winters I stuck with what I bought that day.
Still, wredestiens are pretty bloody good.
The bit I dont get is that we all know how much variation there is between different brands of regular tyre. Heck even between the premium brand tyres there is often a considerable difference in performance. We all know how dire the P6000's from Pirelli are for example!
Yet we are supposed to just accept the fact that as soon as its 5c suddenly all winter tyres are better? What, really? According to who? Somebody who wants to flog you a set of winter tyres? Has anyone ever seen a comparison between, say, a Continental ContiSport Contact3 or a Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric (Both known for excellent wet weather performance) and a winter tyre on a typical British winter road, ie 4ish degrees, wet or dry, no snow?
The only comparisons I have ever seen include 'A summer tyre'. It could be a Linglong for all we know! It could be a P6000, when even a comparison with a plastic tyre from a kids rollerskate would show improvements!
I'd honestly rather be wearing the Eagle's or the Contis frankly.
One other thing - why is everyone suddenly obsessed with winter tyres these last 2 years? Is it because we've had a couple of freak winters now suddenly we all need winter tyres to drive around in a November rain storm? 5 years ago nobody mentioned winter tyres, everyone was satisfied with the performance offered by decent normal tyres in our Winters.
Throw in a couple atypical winters and you'd be mistaken from thinking we live in Norway given the amount of people spending hundreds of quid preparing..
Yet we are supposed to just accept the fact that as soon as its 5c suddenly all winter tyres are better? What, really? According to who? Somebody who wants to flog you a set of winter tyres? Has anyone ever seen a comparison between, say, a Continental ContiSport Contact3 or a Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric (Both known for excellent wet weather performance) and a winter tyre on a typical British winter road, ie 4ish degrees, wet or dry, no snow?
The only comparisons I have ever seen include 'A summer tyre'. It could be a Linglong for all we know! It could be a P6000, when even a comparison with a plastic tyre from a kids rollerskate would show improvements!
I'd honestly rather be wearing the Eagle's or the Contis frankly.
One other thing - why is everyone suddenly obsessed with winter tyres these last 2 years? Is it because we've had a couple of freak winters now suddenly we all need winter tyres to drive around in a November rain storm? 5 years ago nobody mentioned winter tyres, everyone was satisfied with the performance offered by decent normal tyres in our Winters.
Throw in a couple atypical winters and you'd be mistaken from thinking we live in Norway given the amount of people spending hundreds of quid preparing..
Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 5th October 23:03
Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 5th October 23:04
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