Re: New TVR 'On Sale In 2012' Says Smolenski
Discussion
Blown2CV said:
GTRene said:
maybe they can refurbish a lot old TVR's old Griffith's and Cerbera's and Chimaera's etc, give them a fresh up, strip them down, blast the chassis and dump them in a zinc-bath, then update all suspension parts so that handling improves dramatically, also repair cracks and roof stuff and place some good huggy lightweight sport seats, then give them a LS engine for "reliable" cheap power, and so the cars can go for another 20 or so years 
would love that, oke those 8<>15K cars will become more expensive say plus 20K ? but then you have something unique for the road with good road-holding and TVR.
so you think all that can be done for £5-7k?would love that, oke those 8<>15K cars will become more expensive say plus 20K ? but then you have something unique for the road with good road-holding and TVR.
so complete reconditioned cars with great suspension and drive-ability set-up and LS engine can be offered from say 25K (depends on the second hand car price and state)
difficult to explane with my poor English
GTRene said:
Blown2CV said:
GTRene said:
maybe they can refurbish a lot old TVR's old Griffith's and Cerbera's and Chimaera's etc, give them a fresh up, strip them down, blast the chassis and dump them in a zinc-bath, then update all suspension parts so that handling improves dramatically, also repair cracks and roof stuff and place some good huggy lightweight sport seats, then give them a LS engine for "reliable" cheap power, and so the cars can go for another 20 or so years
would love that, oke those 8<>15K cars will become more expensive say plus 20K ? but then you have something unique for the road with good road-holding and TVR.
so you think all that can be done for £5-7k?would love that, oke those 8<>15K cars will become more expensive say plus 20K ? but then you have something unique for the road with good road-holding and TVR.
so complete reconditioned cars with great suspension and drive-ability set-up and LS engine can be offered from say 25K (depends on the second hand car price and state)
difficult to explane with my poor English
What he said. While the LSx family is a no brainer for new car builds due to the combination of price, performance and - most importantly - being a bolt-in, certified Euro 5-compliant solution, I'm still at a loss about what the £20K worth of attraction would be for swapping one into an existing car with an RV8.
For starters it reverses the homologation situation in most/all EU countries: you start with a car that was homologated for road use, you swap the engine and end up with a car which is not. Cue more costs and hassle.
Then you have a car which still has considerable value as standard (i.e. not a £500 snotter) and restrict its future market to people who don't give a rat's posterior about originality. The appeal of having a reliable 400 bhp instead of 300 in a lightweight, short wheelbase car of moderate structural stiffness and some question marks over its suspension geometry is IMO far too limited to offset this (TBH you'd be certifiable ) - bolt a £5K supercharger kit to your 500 with £2K worth of other bits and bobs and you'd be close enough, anyway. 
As 2CV says above, by all accounts Jon's LS-converted Chim 500 was a work of art and very well engineered, documented and known within TVR circles and still it didn't sell at a significantly higher price than a well sorted standard car would have.
For starters it reverses the homologation situation in most/all EU countries: you start with a car that was homologated for road use, you swap the engine and end up with a car which is not. Cue more costs and hassle.
Then you have a car which still has considerable value as standard (i.e. not a £500 snotter) and restrict its future market to people who don't give a rat's posterior about originality. The appeal of having a reliable 400 bhp instead of 300 in a lightweight, short wheelbase car of moderate structural stiffness and some question marks over its suspension geometry is IMO far too limited to offset this (TBH you'd be certifiable
) - bolt a £5K supercharger kit to your 500 with £2K worth of other bits and bobs and you'd be close enough, anyway. As 2CV says above, by all accounts Jon's LS-converted Chim 500 was a work of art and very well engineered, documented and known within TVR circles and still it didn't sell at a significantly higher price than a well sorted standard car would have.
Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 11th May 09:48
I remember that Chimaera with the LS engine.
what I talk about is not only the engine, its a big overhaul (or how you name such )
repair all niggles and update the car to this time also in handling and lights and suspension and brakes and seats, etc etc.
So offer a like "new" car, but with old paperwork/data?
In case of the say Griffith and Chimaera you go from the Rover V8 to the LS V8 so the engine stays V8 on paper, do you then still have to get a new document for it?
maybe offer also cheaper basis overhauled cars with a refreshed Rover engine.
The time that LS Chimaera was on sale here, TVR was still "fresh" but now after so many years no new TVR's maybe there is a small market for such.
what I talk about is not only the engine, its a big overhaul (or how you name such )
repair all niggles and update the car to this time also in handling and lights and suspension and brakes and seats, etc etc.
So offer a like "new" car, but with old paperwork/data?
In case of the say Griffith and Chimaera you go from the Rover V8 to the LS V8 so the engine stays V8 on paper, do you then still have to get a new document for it?
maybe offer also cheaper basis overhauled cars with a refreshed Rover engine.
The time that LS Chimaera was on sale here, TVR was still "fresh" but now after so many years no new TVR's maybe there is a small market for such.
GTRene said:
I remember that Chimaera with the LS engine.
what I talk about is not only the engine, its a big overhaul (or how you name such )
repair all niggles and update the car to this time also in handling and lights and suspension and brakes and seats, etc etc.
So offer a like "new" car, but with old paperwork/data?
In case of the say Griffith and Chimaera you go from the Rover V8 to the LS V8 so the engine stays V8 on paper, do you then still have to get a new document for it?
maybe offer also cheaper basis overhauled cars with a refreshed Rover engine.
The time that LS Chimaera was on sale here, TVR was still "fresh" but now after so many years no new TVR's maybe there is a small market for such.
Fitting a new and different engine, changing the suspension, brakes, interior etc will not be done for £20K.what I talk about is not only the engine, its a big overhaul (or how you name such )
repair all niggles and update the car to this time also in handling and lights and suspension and brakes and seats, etc etc.
So offer a like "new" car, but with old paperwork/data?
In case of the say Griffith and Chimaera you go from the Rover V8 to the LS V8 so the engine stays V8 on paper, do you then still have to get a new document for it?
maybe offer also cheaper basis overhauled cars with a refreshed Rover engine.
The time that LS Chimaera was on sale here, TVR was still "fresh" but now after so many years no new TVR's maybe there is a small market for such.
You could take an old banger to RG, Power, Str8six etc and they would do a wonderful job of refurbing it within original spec for £20k.
If you were going to completely re-work the original then you'd start from scratch. Why have the cost of taking the old one apart and working out what needs fixing/upgrading and what doesn't.
Just find someone with access to cheap industrial space and who happens to have the ability to build new OEM TVR chassis and engines and all the other bits and simply supply them with new shells from the moulds that are sitting in Europe somewhere.
Still looking at £70K +++ just for that.
GTRene said:
In case of the say Griffith and Chimaera you go from the Rover V8 to the LS V8 so the engine stays V8 on paper, do you then still have to get a new document for it?
Install a 'new' engine of the same engine code - no problem (replacing you 1.4 engine with a 1.6 version of same being a grey area of sorts).
Hog your existing engine out to 12 litres - no problem.
Strap a supercharger on - no problem.
Install a new engine with a different engine code - instant re-test and re-certification.
900T-R said:
Install a 'new' engine of the same engine code - no problem (replacing you 1.4 engine with a 1.6 version of same being a grey area of sorts).
Hog your existing engine out to 12 litres - no problem.
Strap a supercharger on - no problem.
Install a new engine with a different engine code - instant re-test and re-certification.
Rover engine's indeed also have something special and there are a lot update's for those to make it a good engine with a nive powerband, I remember my old 4.3 BV Griffith wich had not a nice powerband, it was very short
how different with my Hartge 5.0 V8 wich is smooth and has a good powerband from say 2k/rpm to 6.5k/rpm so a much wider powerband.But I guess you can change that in the Rover engine...though would cost a bit I guess ;-)
GTRene said:
ah, hm...thanks for explaining, I thought maybe its not such problem, I believe in the Netherlands you can change a V8 for a V8 although there is a max in hp difference when you exceed a limit then you have to change the document for the over the limit extra hp figure.
Nope... different engine code = re-test/certification at RDW no matter the # of cylinders. RDW also would like to see cars which have their engine power upgraded by more than 40% back at their test centres but that's not something they actively chase after. The powerband of my WDR-built 4.3 runs from 2K rpm to the rev limiter (6.5-7K rpm)... max torque @ 2.1K rpm, max power nearer 6K.
Edited by 900T-R on Wednesday 11th May 12:52
that sounds much better then the standard engine, I remembered that mine was "brutal" when you look at the pedal or had a itch on your big toe but then the forwards pull lastet only short so to speak, it had a high peak and then say the last 1.000rpm fel down (hm is already a long time ago, anyway something like that)
But you changed the engine so you have a wider range? nice...
saw your website, looks good...when I ever buy another TVR (I had 2 also a V8S) I will visit your shop to see what work you guys do overthere.
but then the forwards pull lastet only short so to speak, it had a high peak and then say the last 1.000rpm fel down (hm is already a long time ago, anyway something like that)But you changed the engine so you have a wider range? nice...
saw your website, looks good...when I ever buy another TVR (I had 2 also a V8S) I will visit your shop to see what work you guys do overthere.
Hmmm... are you sure yours wasn't an 'unofficial' 5 litre - if you hadn't told me it was a 4.3 by the sounds of your description I'd have sworn it was a 500...
Having said that, there always was a significant variation in behaviour between engines that 'should' be the same spec.
Mine is a fairly significant upgrade from factory spec in components, build and flow bench development of heads/intake but dimensionally it's very close to original - it's even got standard sized intake valves... ACT twin plenum with 45 mm carbon trumpets on top, slightly larger Siemens injectors, ACT exhaust manifolds and some nifty ducting around the radiator and air filter in the nosecone... that's about your lot.
Having said that, there always was a significant variation in behaviour between engines that 'should' be the same spec.
Mine is a fairly significant upgrade from factory spec in components, build and flow bench development of heads/intake but dimensionally it's very close to original - it's even got standard sized intake valves... ACT twin plenum with 45 mm carbon trumpets on top, slightly larger Siemens injectors, ACT exhaust manifolds and some nifty ducting around the radiator and air filter in the nosecone... that's about your lot.
car crazy said:
Seen on the owners (smolenski) facebook page he plans to make chims griffs sagaris and tuscans to order only. To be specced by the buyer.
Do you have a link to that? Can't imagine there being much of a demand from people in the UK to be honest. Not while he's still around, anyway.
looks like a very old one to me?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff