Re: New TVR 'On Sale In 2012' Says Smolenski
Discussion
King Fisher said:
Brand. These corporate idiots just don't get it, do they?
They put the TVR logo on it, and they think it's a TVR; well it's not.
TVRs were TVRs because they were made in Blackpool. They were TVRs because they were hairy-a***d, quirky, hand-made sports cars which sounded incredible and went like stink.
You cannot move production to Germany, change virtually everything about the car and still expect it to be a TVR. That brand is now effectively dead as things stand.
The clincher is his statement that, "it isn't very important whether you're based in Lancashire or Saxony".
Oh yes it is mate! Somewhere else in the UK might just be OK, but TVRs are British made, that's partly why we're so f*****g proud of them.
So Mr Smolenski, here's a bit of advice should you happen to ever look at this site.
Sell your entire holding to someone who actually understands what TVR is about and cares for the heritage it represents - Lawrence Tomlinson or someone of that ilk if you can find someone interested. Cut your losses. Get out, because you're out of your depth. Give someone who actually has an inkling of what TVR means a chance to resurrect the real brand, not this poxy imitation.
Because I'll tell him now; the number of current TVR owners who will buy his German imitations will be tiny. And without them, the venture is doomed.
Well said They put the TVR logo on it, and they think it's a TVR; well it's not.
TVRs were TVRs because they were made in Blackpool. They were TVRs because they were hairy-a***d, quirky, hand-made sports cars which sounded incredible and went like stink.
You cannot move production to Germany, change virtually everything about the car and still expect it to be a TVR. That brand is now effectively dead as things stand.
The clincher is his statement that, "it isn't very important whether you're based in Lancashire or Saxony".
Oh yes it is mate! Somewhere else in the UK might just be OK, but TVRs are British made, that's partly why we're so f*****g proud of them.
So Mr Smolenski, here's a bit of advice should you happen to ever look at this site.
Sell your entire holding to someone who actually understands what TVR is about and cares for the heritage it represents - Lawrence Tomlinson or someone of that ilk if you can find someone interested. Cut your losses. Get out, because you're out of your depth. Give someone who actually has an inkling of what TVR means a chance to resurrect the real brand, not this poxy imitation.
Because I'll tell him now; the number of current TVR owners who will buy his German imitations will be tiny. And without them, the venture is doomed.
For those of us who can remember, TVR has been a well-known brand of 'exciting' sports car since the 1960s.
Yes they became better known and more numerous with the introduction of the nineties cars, but the earlier cars established the marque within its niche and are legendary in their own right.
That's what makes its passing even more tragic, and the idea of a revival even more of a sick joke.
The REAL TVR company is dead and buried.
Elvis impersonators abound too, but that is all they will ever be.
Yes they became better known and more numerous with the introduction of the nineties cars, but the earlier cars established the marque within its niche and are legendary in their own right.
That's what makes its passing even more tragic, and the idea of a revival even more of a sick joke.
The REAL TVR company is dead and buried.
Elvis impersonators abound too, but that is all they will ever be.
Ed said:
The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
The thing is, how many people are actually going to choose a TVR over something like an Aston, a GT3 or a Ferrari? Even if he produces it in a German factory with typically German attention to detail it's still going to be an unknown quantity and still won't have anywhere near the development money spent on it like the competitors. Whilst there may be a few people who will be prepared to buy it just to be different I doubt there will be that many of them. Whilst people at that income level may be more inclined to see their car as a toy and disposable, they aren't stupid. Again this comes back to the emerging market consumer, if he wants to sell it in China etc, why did he need the brand? I can't imagine it stands for much over there.Ed said:
Who are you guys trying to kid. That perfomance will always attract another influx of non-enthusiast, Porsche / AN Other performance brand buying, mechanically unsympathetic buyers. The same happened when the styling of the Swordfish Tuscan hit the big screens and again when Sag made the huge splash it did in the motor media. These guys will dabble and then go back to their GT2, 458, Gallardo, R8 etc
The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a s
t for our little island's contribution to that.
I don't think TVR means much outside of the UK, or possibly bits of NE Europe so ignore that market and you've lost all the brand value. Though I think he may have already lost the goodwill with little outbursts like that.The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a s
t for our little island's contribution to that.Edited by Ed on Saturday 16th October 10:24
If he's going after the wealthy Russian market, why didn't he just licence the name MIG, buy Volga or set up as an All Russian performance brand? There are plenty of highly skilled engineers from their defence and aerospace business who could develop it.
Personally, I think the TVR name is as dead as Riley, Austin, Morris, Wolsey and so on.
Besides if anybody wants a German TVR they can buy a Wiesman and not have to worry about their car being orphaned by perilous management.
And we've got the new Morgan to look forward to.
IMO, TVR is a complicated brand and in a select group of companies that evoke great passion and emotion.
In some ways TVR is to Britain (notably the north of England) as Ferrari is to Italy. Yes there are market forces and yes you cannot deny TVR was in a dicey situation in the early 2000's with the SP6 reputation and customer confidence but how many other low-volume car companies would bring part of London to a near standstill in a protest/support of the factory.
TVR really should have 'Handle with Care' stamped under the title but I think it depends where your viewpoint is. If you believe in Soul and Passion and Heritage in cars then you'll be outraged.
If you just want a fast pretty car that is built wherever by whoever then you'll probably rather like the idea.
Personally, I think TVR does stand, in some way, for a bit of British grit (which we seem to be lacking) and battling against adversity and for that reason I think it should be built in Britain and it's core values retained.
In some ways TVR is to Britain (notably the north of England) as Ferrari is to Italy. Yes there are market forces and yes you cannot deny TVR was in a dicey situation in the early 2000's with the SP6 reputation and customer confidence but how many other low-volume car companies would bring part of London to a near standstill in a protest/support of the factory.
TVR really should have 'Handle with Care' stamped under the title but I think it depends where your viewpoint is. If you believe in Soul and Passion and Heritage in cars then you'll be outraged.
If you just want a fast pretty car that is built wherever by whoever then you'll probably rather like the idea.
Personally, I think TVR does stand, in some way, for a bit of British grit (which we seem to be lacking) and battling against adversity and for that reason I think it should be built in Britain and it's core values retained.
toast boy said:
Ed said:
The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
The thing is, how many people are actually going to choose a TVR over something like an Aston, a GT3 or a Ferrari? Even if he produces it in a German factory with typically German attention to detail it's still going to be an unknown quantity and still won't have anywhere near the development money spent on it like the competitors. Whilst there may be a few people who will be prepared to buy it just to be different I doubt there will be that many of them. Whilst people at that income level may be more inclined to see their car as a toy and disposable, they aren't stupid. Again this comes back to the emerging market consumer, if he wants to sell it in China etc, why did he need the brand? I can't imagine it stands for much over there.In China, only 'imported' brands can command the premium. The brand may not have any awareness, but it would need depth. Heritage, a whole back catalogue of beautiful cars and a brand narrative. You look in the Shanghai malls, all the 'British' brands have some form of nod to their heritage.
I think he bought TVR thinking he was going to trade and evolve the business from where it was. When it became apparent he wouldn't / couldn't, he packaged and reacquired the bits that were worthwhile and disbanded the brand so he had the foundations for a developing market based strategy where the brand has a glorious back story to show and none of the warranty / reliability baggage.
How uninspiring. Bound to be caught out by the Lotus rebirth going on at the moment.
Seems so many people want to be in the car industry that there isn't enough room...and I guess there isn't as only certain amounts get sold each year!
I mean, MD-1, you might as well call it Car-1 least McLaren can do numbers because of their heritage, TVRs where all about the mythical beast names.
Anyway its only really a TVR in name now.
Seems so many people want to be in the car industry that there isn't enough room...and I guess there isn't as only certain amounts get sold each year!
I mean, MD-1, you might as well call it Car-1 least McLaren can do numbers because of their heritage, TVRs where all about the mythical beast names.
Anyway its only really a TVR in name now.
CDP said:
Ed said:
Who are you guys trying to kid. That perfomance will always attract another influx of non-enthusiast, Porsche / AN Other performance brand buying, mechanically unsympathetic buyers. The same happened when the styling of the Swordfish Tuscan hit the big screens and again when Sag made the huge splash it did in the motor media. These guys will dabble and then go back to their GT2, 458, Gallardo, R8 etc
The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a st for our little island's contribution to that.
I don't think TVR means much outside of the UK, or possibly bits of NE Europe so ignore that market and you've lost all the brand value. Though I think he may have already lost the goodwill with little outbursts like that.The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a s
t for our little island's contribution to that.Edited by Ed on Saturday 16th October 10:24
If he's going after the wealthy Russian market, why didn't he just licence the name MIG, buy Volga or set up as an All Russian performance brand? There are plenty of highly skilled engineers from their defence and aerospace business who could develop it.
Personally, I think the TVR name is as dead as Riley, Austin, Morris, Wolsey and so on.
Besides if anybody wants a German TVR they can buy a Wiesman and not have to worry about their car being orphaned by perilous management.
And we've got the new Morgan to look forward to.
Liquid Knight said:
lambysdad said:
Buying a German made TVR......I think not 
Whatever next a BMW Mini? What a brilliant excuse to buy a Noble.
I love that he thinks the rest of Europe don't see boarders. Can someone ask him what people would think of a Ferrari built in Spain, or a Porsche build in Scotland?
Ed said:
CDP said:
Ed said:
Who are you guys trying to kid. That perfomance will always attract another influx of non-enthusiast, Porsche / AN Other performance brand buying, mechanically unsympathetic buyers. The same happened when the styling of the Swordfish Tuscan hit the big screens and again when Sag made the huge splash it did in the motor media. These guys will dabble and then go back to their GT2, 458, Gallardo, R8 etc
The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a st for our little island's contribution to that.
I don't think TVR means much outside of the UK, or possibly bits of NE Europe so ignore that market and you've lost all the brand value. Though I think he may have already lost the goodwill with little outbursts like that.The customer he is aiming at is a very different animal to the majority of us who hope to hold onto our P&J for the medium to long term, nurturing and upgrading as we go. Our Russian chum has outwardly stated in the past, he thinks he is going after Aston Martin and Porsche when Typhon was on the table...so you can be expecting to pay north of £80k entry point for your 600+ bhp 'Tuscan-alike'...especially if he is planning on only building 250 a year gives an indication on the level he is aiming for.
Given the 'cheap' manufacturing markets are not even being mentioned...he wants either British or German brand attributes and I don't think he or his intended customer will care which.
Strategically he thinks he will pull off a re-run of TVR's Chim and Grif selling 'value performance' into the Yuppie late 80's market...instead of the city, he will be sending this into Shanghai, Moscow, Eastern Europe etc markets which have plenty of cash rich extroverts wanting something different to dick swing about in the vodka bar or perfomance pound their mates Ferrari, Porsche, Aston, SLS with.
Regretably this concept would probably sell bloody well as a 2 seater under a Tuscan skin, followed by a Macca 3 seater rip off and presumably a 2+2 Rapide / Panamera so some of these rich boys can kill even more of their mates in one go showboating.
If he actually gets this off the ground, it will fly. You can also tell by the fact he stop one stop short of calling us something untypable, that he gives not a s
t for our little island's contribution to that.Edited by Ed on Saturday 16th October 10:24
If he's going after the wealthy Russian market, why didn't he just licence the name MIG, buy Volga or set up as an All Russian performance brand? There are plenty of highly skilled engineers from their defence and aerospace business who could develop it.
Personally, I think the TVR name is as dead as Riley, Austin, Morris, Wolsey and so on.
Besides if anybody wants a German TVR they can buy a Wiesman and not have to worry about their car being orphaned by perilous management.
And we've got the new Morgan to look forward to.
Then again, it would appear that living in the "UKSR" of the last few years only an imported product would do.
Why doesn't he just rename name the bloody brand and be done with it!
At least then we might be interested in what he might produce rather than being infuriated with his butchering of a British Icon.
Sell the name and the rights to the old models to someone who's going to do something more fitting with them you damn sneaky Russian!
At least then we might be interested in what he might produce rather than being infuriated with his butchering of a British Icon.
Sell the name and the rights to the old models to someone who's going to do something more fitting with them you damn sneaky Russian!
Just read the press release - absolutely stunned! That is a master class in how to ps off as many people as possible in one short statement. Suppliers, potential partners, fans of the marque, even the nation as a whole! As for his comments on Peter Wheelers era, just sickening really. Also couldn't help but note his comment that 'all I'VE got left to do is build them' - what, on your own, no help from anyone else? Arrogant prick....
s off as many people as possible in one short statement. Suppliers, potential partners, fans of the marque, even the nation as a whole! As for his comments on Peter Wheelers era, just sickening really. Also couldn't help but note his comment that 'all I'VE got left to do is build them' - what, on your own, no help from anyone else? Arrogant prick....Roberty said:
Why doesn't he just rename name the bloody brand and be done with it!
At least then we might be interested in what he might produce rather than being infuriated with his butchering of a British Icon.
Sell the name and the rights to the old models to someone who's going to do something more fitting with them you damn sneaky Russian!
Looking at it from his perspective. He doesn't give a monkeys about upsetting some British TVR fans or there being some form of sacrilege in what he's doing with the brand.At least then we might be interested in what he might produce rather than being infuriated with his butchering of a British Icon.
Sell the name and the rights to the old models to someone who's going to do something more fitting with them you damn sneaky Russian!
He owns the Brand and it still stands to make him more money attached to a car bonnet than being sold to someone else.
I very much doubt he's waking at night, being concerned what people think of him.
convert said:
Ooo look...
Anyone looking for a Corvette based sports car built in South africa would be better spending their time over here,
http://www.perana.com/
Gaz. said:
It is also worth noting that outside of the kit car companies mainly making Cobra reps/recreations, nobody has stepped up to fill the vaccuum created by the withdrawal from sale of the Griffith, Chimaera and Cerbera, which many consider (myself included) the golden era of TVR. Wiesmann come closest but they are double/triple the price. Marcos had a quick flash with the TSO, and ,er, I think that's it.
The trouble with Wiesmann is their retro look. The similar problem goes for these guys:http://www.sebringinternational.co.uk
A new body and they could be a long way there.
I can't help thinking with a gap this big it would be worth GM building RHD Corvettes as they were the only other contender in that price bracket. Big fast, plastic shouty thing.
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