DVLA vs Liquid Knight
Discussion
Negative Creep said:
To be honest if they do decide to go to court I'll cough up the money. I cannot afford legal representation and do not know enough to defend myself. Whilst the fine could be thrown out I could also end up paying more.....
Understand fully your position .... though this is exactly what the DVLA want you to feel and therefore cave in and pay up...... and easy for me to say so i agree.
If I can afford to pay or not I refused to do so because in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. The DVLA issue fines sorry "penalty notices" (designed to look like fines) and offer legal ramifications for not paying for a crime that can not be proven or disproven. This "crime" is not legally enforcable and is nothing more than a civil dispute. There is no legal recourse for a civil dispute and the DVLA have no powers to suggest there are; are well aware of this and are acting unlawfully by attempting to intimidate people into paying "or else".
We need to stand up for ourselves and hopefully if enough of us do the DVLA will stop doing it.
When we pay our "road fund licence" we are in actual fact paying in advance for all the services the DVLA all supposed to provide and nothing more. The DVLA failing for one reason or another to provide those services is their problem and we should not have to pay for someone elses mistakes.
I'm sorry that the DVLA are having to lay of 3,000 members of staff maybe they could use some of the £13,000,000 profit they made last year from SORN penaltys to keep people in work instead of spending £18 per letter getting legal bod's to talk rubbish (edited for Mary Whitehouse forum readers) for nine months.
Sorry rant over.
We need to stand up for ourselves and hopefully if enough of us do the DVLA will stop doing it.
When we pay our "road fund licence" we are in actual fact paying in advance for all the services the DVLA all supposed to provide and nothing more. The DVLA failing for one reason or another to provide those services is their problem and we should not have to pay for someone elses mistakes.
I'm sorry that the DVLA are having to lay of 3,000 members of staff maybe they could use some of the £13,000,000 profit they made last year from SORN penaltys to keep people in work instead of spending £18 per letter getting legal bod's to talk rubbish (edited for Mary Whitehouse forum readers) for nine months.
Sorry rant over.
Negative Creep said:
To be honest if they do decide to go to court I'll cough up the money. I cannot afford legal representation and do not know enough to defend myself. Whilst the fine could be thrown out I could also end up paying more.....
All you need to know to defend yourself is tell the court the truth. If you get a summons (and it's a big "If") then there are plenty on here who can help draft a written statement - including any relevant statute references and recent cases - which should give a solid case. Even in the worst case, if you go to court and lose, you only have to pay the money they already want plus (fairly nominal) costs. It's a civil matter so there's no risk of a "record" and absolutely no risk of any of the other things they threaten (affects to your credit rating, bailiffs etc) as long as you pay if the court finds against you.
It goes like this: They say you owe them money, you don't think you do. So they ask a court to decide who's right. If the court decides you're right then they have to go away, if the court decides they're right then you have to pay. As long as you do pay at that point then that's completely the end of the matter. Think about it for a minute, if it didn't work like that then anyone could start issuing county court proceedings for spurious, non-existent, debts and no-one could risk defending themselves for fear of losing!
Now, about that £2k that you owe me ......
Look what dropped on my friends welcome mat the other day...
...some people will never learn...
...by referring to the failure to declare SORN administrating charge, penalty notice or fee as a "fine" the DVLA is acting unlawfully. The DVLA are not court appointed judges, magistrates or officers/marshals of the law and therefore do no possess the legal powers to issue anything described as a "fine". The non-payment of a fine can result in criminal action brought against the individual, in extreme cases a custodial sentence. The non-payment of an administration fee is a civil matter at best. By describing their administration fee as a fine the DVLA are suggesting there are legal ramifications and consequences for non-payment. This is by definition completely untrue and if anyone has paid a "fine" as a result of this deliberate misuse of the term it is an act of fraud on the part of the DVLA.
Should I get back on this or leave it?
...some people will never learn...
...by referring to the failure to declare SORN administrating charge, penalty notice or fee as a "fine" the DVLA is acting unlawfully. The DVLA are not court appointed judges, magistrates or officers/marshals of the law and therefore do no possess the legal powers to issue anything described as a "fine". The non-payment of a fine can result in criminal action brought against the individual, in extreme cases a custodial sentence. The non-payment of an administration fee is a civil matter at best. By describing their administration fee as a fine the DVLA are suggesting there are legal ramifications and consequences for non-payment. This is by definition completely untrue and if anyone has paid a "fine" as a result of this deliberate misuse of the term it is an act of fraud on the part of the DVLA.
Should I get back on this or leave it?
It's not my car or threatening letter (reminder); it's the use of the word "fined" to describe their administration fee/charge.
It bloody annoys me to think people have been paying what they have been lead to believe is a fine while the DVLA do not have the legal authority to issue fine at all.
I'll have to be a bit sneaky this time and issue a "Freedom of Information Act" request for the number of people who have paid these alleged fines and how much revenue it has generated before I suggest it's misrepresentation to the point of being fraudulent.
It bloody annoys me to think people have been paying what they have been lead to believe is a fine while the DVLA do not have the legal authority to issue fine at all.
I'll have to be a bit sneaky this time and issue a "Freedom of Information Act" request for the number of people who have paid these alleged fines and how much revenue it has generated before I suggest it's misrepresentation to the point of being fraudulent.
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