DVLA vs Liquid Knight

[Liquid Knight]

Some of you may be aware I'm having an issue with the DVLA at the moment. Basically they have issued a SORN fine for a car I declared as scrap over a year before hand.

No SORN reminder, just a pay £40 now or else it'll be £80 later letter.

I replied to this and the £40 was extended an extra two weeks.

I replied to this outlaying the fact that the DVLA have ignored the Law and are imposing a fine for an offence that had not been commited.

The DVLA removed the £40 cusion and ordered me to pay the £80 or else collection agencies would be involved.

I have invited the DVLA to court and am currently awaiting their reply.

So if I go to court I'd like as much ammunition as possible to throw at the DVLAs face. If you have been messed about by the DVLA, paid a fine for their mistake or had some other issue then air it here and I will read them out before the court to show the DVLA are as one high court judge described as "unfit for purpose" to the Magestrate in the court if/when I have to present evidence.

The original thread is here....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

...and the "DVLA-la-la I'm not listening" thread is here.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thank you for any contributions.

All the best Rob

[oOTomOo]

Never had a problem with them. Including de-registering a car registered at my addressed owned by the previous occupiers and declaring a vehicle as sold to a trader about 9 months after it was sold because the dealer didn't do the paperwork they said they would.

HTH.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

two or three fines for forgetting SORN's with no reminders

Also sent a scrap notification through and then got an £80 fine 9 months later.
They said they never received the scrap notification, paid up as I couldn't be bothered arguing.

Good luck in court, you will probably end up paying £80 plus costs!!!

[Risotto]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

I couldn't be bothered arguing.

You're not alone.

The nature of the organisation is such that any complaints are generally abandoned when the customer realises the sheer futility of trying to pursue a grievance in the face of such bovine stupidity.

Best of luck to the OP!

[Liquid Knight]

I hoping the members of the press I have invited would help encourage Parliament the the DVLA ia one of the Quango's the country doesn't need.

[GarryA]

I fell foul of this when exporting my Integrale out of the UK,

I sent the log book to DVLA, then a few months later after I had been tracked down they said I had not declared SORN and had to pay a fine, I phoned them and they said they had not received the log book and it was my fault as the DVLA would have acknowledged the log book and sent me a letter, if you do not receive written acknowledgement within 6 weeks of application then you are in the wrong.

[Jgtv]

Liquid Knight said:

I hoping the members of the press I have invited would help encourage Parliament the the DVLA ia one of the Quango's the country doesn't need.

Think your on a hiding to nothing here mate.

All this for £40? Really, lifes to short.

[Risotto]

Jgtv said:

Liquid Knight said:

I hoping the members of the press I have invited would help encourage Parliament the the DVLA ia one of the Quango's the country doesn't need.

Think your on a hiding to nothing here mate.

All this for £40? Really, lifes to short.

I agree to some extent, but having tried to point out the error the OP recieved nothing but an increased penalty for his trouble. Giving them £80 simply because they demanded it is bound to stick in the throat.

If I told you to give me £40 for no reason, you'd say no. If I had the cheek to then demand £80, I doubt your answer would change!

Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 October 17:00

[Liquid Knight]

If someone took £80 out of my wallet I would kick off.

What makes the DVLA trying to steal £80 any different?

The DVLA need to learn they are not above the law and we are fed up of being mugged.

If they take me to court I will fight my corner until I'm held in contempt, if they decide not to and send a "no further action" letter it will be an admission of guilt on their part and I will release all the information to the press.

The DVLA made over £10,000,000 in SORN fines last year. How many of those were fraudulent?

[base]

a chap on a motorcycle forum had the same thing with the DVLA ended going to court and won

heres a link to one of the threads might be worth firing off a email as he has first hand experience of this great organisation

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1855...

[GarryA]

Did you receive a letter from the DVLA acknowledging the car as scrap?

You should have within 6 weeks of sending the V5 off, they will ask you this.........

[ManOpener]

As said in the previous thread:

ManOpener said:

FWIW, I've had to chase the DVLA up several in the last year regarding vehicles that have been sold or scrapped. I don't understand why it's the responsibility of the previous owner of a car to ensure that the DVLA have done their fking job- it's absurd and completely unacceptable for any institution. You don't have to phone the bank every 5 minutes to check that they haven't eaten all of your savings, or call your electricity company to make sure that they haven't forgotten you exist and disconnected you.

It's even more unacceptable that you can be fined, or have your car towed/crushed/sold because of their failings. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"



-EDIT-

Edited to add, even doing things recorded delivery doesn't necessarily work. When I chased them for confirmation that my car had changed hands (as it was approaching the expiry date for the tax and I didn't want a fine) I sent in documentation including a photocopy of the V5C and a copy of the receipt for postage. The response I got was basically "well that receipt could be for anything sent by recorded delivery" even though they could have searched the fking tracking number and SEEN that it was sent to them.

[BliarOut]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

two or three fines for forgetting SORN's with no reminders

Also sent a scrap notification through and then got an £80 fine 9 months later.
They said they never received the scrap notification, paid up as I couldn't be bothered arguing.

Good luck in court, you will probably end up paying £80 plus costs!!!

You were wrong to. If you post it first class it's deemed served unless proved otherwise.

[Liquid Knight]

GarryA said:

Did you receive a letter from the DVLA acknowledging the car as scrap?

You should have within 6 weeks of sending the V5 off, they will ask you this.........

They already have and I did not, but the DVLA say the acknowledgement letter is irrefutable proof that they recieved the V5. All this letter proves is the fact they sent the letter and nothing more. Also there is not statute of law that states the customer has to chase the paperwork if the DVLA fail to recieve or process the document. The responsability of the customer ends at the post box. According to the interpetitions act at least.

[judas]

BliarOut said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

two or three fines for forgetting SORN's with no reminders

Also sent a scrap notification through and then got an £80 fine 9 months later.
They said they never received the scrap notification, paid up as I couldn't be bothered arguing.

Good luck in court, you will probably end up paying £80 plus costs!!!

You were wrong to. If you post it first class it's deemed served unless proved otherwise.

Just what I was going to post

If the police send you an NIP for a speeding offence, provided it's sent by first class post, it's deemed 'served' under law (even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the Royal Mail lose millions of letters each year). For the same not to apply when declaring SORN/car scrapped/sold/kidnapped by aliens would be truly breath-taking hypocrisy. However, in reality, I expect it's one rule for them and another for us

[BliarOut]

judas said:

BliarOut said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

two or three fines for forgetting SORN's with no reminders

Also sent a scrap notification through and then got an £80 fine 9 months later.
They said they never received the scrap notification, paid up as I couldn't be bothered arguing.

Good luck in court, you will probably end up paying £80 plus costs!!!

You were wrong to. If you post it first class it's deemed served unless proved otherwise.

Just what I was going to post

If the police send you an NIP for a speeding offence, provided it's sent by first class post, it's deemed 'served' under law (even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the Royal Mail lose millions of letters each year). For the same not to apply when declaring SORN/car scrapped/sold/kidnapped by aliens would be truly breath-taking hypocrisy. However, in reality, I expect it's one rule for them and another for us

They have to provide proof and they know it.

[acricha3]

GarryA said:

Did you receive a letter from the DVLA acknowledging the car as scrap?

You should have within 6 weeks of sending the V5 off, they will ask you this.........

Assuming that they are competent enough to a) recieve the v5 and not lose it in the post, b) enter it into their system as being scrap, c) their systems updating and d) them sending the OP the letter.

Having dealt with the DVLA I can assure you they are not competent enough to perform a) without some form of miracle let alone a, b, c and d in sequence and correctly!!

I had a situation with a car a while ago where I put 6 months tax on it, then got a letter of notification informing me that there was no tax on my car. I thought this would be a simple fix as obviously the system has got confused (taxed it just after buying it from a dealer).

Rang the DVVLA and got a lady at the end of the phone who promptly informed me of my breaking the law and then proceeded to list all of the horrible things that could happen to me, wouldnt let me get a word in and categorically refused to accept that they could have their systems wrong (there computerised dont you know!).

Thought sod this! Sent them a copy of the tax disc and all the documention registered post! Rang them 2 weeks later to be told, sorry we havent recieved anything (then another tirade about them taking me to court) even though I had the signature off the delivery. Finally managed to get through to someone who basically admitted that this happens all the time and ammended the system!

DVLA = Dumb Vicious Lying aholes!

[Jgtv]

Risotto said:

Jgtv said:

Liquid Knight said:

I hoping the members of the press I have invited would help encourage Parliament the the DVLA ia one of the Quango's the country doesn't need.

Think your on a hiding to nothing here mate.

All this for £40? Really, lifes to short.

I agree to some extent, but having tried to point out the error the OP recieved nothing but an increased penalty for his trouble. Giving them £80 simply because they demanded it is bound to stick in the throat.

If I told you to give me £40 for no reason, you'd say no. If I had the cheek to then demand £80, I doubt your answer would change!

Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 October 17:00

If I needed to send you something or I was getting fined £80, I would send it recorded/ registered post, if I didnt and after that I never head anything from you but I should have chased it I would take it on the chin and pay the £40 and wish I had checked up on it.

So rather than waste my time, your time and the courts time I would take the £40 hit rather than having to take all the time off work, send more letters and deal with more correspondence, but thats just me.

[ManOpener]

Jgtv said:

Risotto said:

Jgtv said:

Liquid Knight said:

I hoping the members of the press I have invited would help encourage Parliament the the DVLA ia one of the Quango's the country doesn't need.

Think your on a hiding to nothing here mate.

All this for £40? Really, lifes to short.

I agree to some extent, but having tried to point out the error the OP recieved nothing but an increased penalty for his trouble. Giving them £80 simply because they demanded it is bound to stick in the throat.

If I told you to give me £40 for no reason, you'd say no. If I had the cheek to then demand £80, I doubt your answer would change!

Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 October 17:00

If I needed to send you something or I was getting fined £80, I would send it recorded/ registered post, if I didnt and after that I never head anything from you but I should have chased it I would take it on the chin and pay the £40 and wish I had checked up on it.

So rather than waste my time, your time and the courts time I would take the £40 hit rather than having to take all the time off work, send more letters and deal with more correspondence, but thats just me.

And this is exactly why the DVLA has been getting away with it for so long.
Until it is set in legal precedent that it is not the responsibility of the car's owner to make sure that the DVLA have done their job in respect to tax/SORN/scrapping/V5C forms then it will continue happening. You might be happy enough to cough up £40 for someone elses stupid mistake, but some people aren't in the position to pay for other people's fk-ups.

[poo at Paul's]

That ing place needs raising to the ground.