Just bought a Rover 25 with issues ~

[Motorrad]

Good news on the engine rebuild.

Can't say I love or hate any marque in particular, however I do hate poorly conceived and cynical cars (streetwise, city rover et al) which is where some of my cynicism of the Rover marque comes from. I also think I'm harder on them than I might be due to feeling repeatedly disappointed by a company who were one of my automotive heroes.

That commentary on Rover/MGR aside I also fail to understand why enthusiasts disparage their undeniable achievments.

Also I hate to be negative on a thread which should gladden the heart of every pistonhead out there. A new driver, fixing up a car they are going to take out and enjoy. Top work.

[MGJohn]

Progress Day 4:~

Made some progress on the car today but, not as much as I hoped as our Combi Boiler, newly installed last year, threw a wobbly.

Fault code displayed showed F. 75. This according to the substantial manual which comes with the appliance, a manual that would take about a month to read and fully understand... ... Indicates a faulty pump or pressure sensor... as no pressure being sensed, shuts it down with a red light showing and fault code displayed.

Any road up. Did not need a new pump ( Hugely expensive ) or a new sensor ( quite expensive ). It only needed the sensor to be cleaned up and refitted. Nice warm house again and we're eighty quid lighter ...

The chap who repaired the boiler saw me working on my son's R25 and mentioned he had just bought a Skoda VRS. He really wanted a ZT Turbo but, after weeks searching for one in trophy blue, drew a blank so went for the Skoda...

Update on Rover 25 progress follows later.
..

[MGJohn]

Day 4 continued:~

Delayed start but managed to get quite bit done. Work started well after midday :~

Firstly, removed the Oil Filter... It appeared very new. Doddle with cylinder head absent ...



No surprises there ~ Oil-Coolant mixture mess:~



I also removed the sump plug to allow the Oil~Coolant mix to drain into a bucket. I've left a note to myself to replace the sump plug tomorrow as I'm allowing the stuff to drain overnight. Get as much of the muck out of the engine as possible. It was still giving the occasional drip when I packed up just before dark.

Then turned my attention to the cylinder block ready for the refitting of the cylinder head :~



Placed the MLS ( Multi Layer Steel ) Cylinder Head gasket on the thoroughly cleaned block :~



Then placed the Head saver shim over that:~



One of the many things I really like about the little K-Series is it's lack of bulk and weight compared to most other engines. I was able to lift the dressed cylinder head, still with complete Induction Manifold and Exhaust Manifolds and downpipe with first Catalytic Converter attached, easily down onto the block without damage to the new gasket and its shim. Try that with say Rover's T-Series and chances are you'd put your back out even if you have biceps like "I'll be back" Arnie Schwartzenegger! I can barely lift the T-Series head and reach over to fit it to the block because it's so heavy. No chance with heavy manifolds attached as I did today with the K-Series :~



Replaced all ten through bolts which looked like new with a quick wipe with a cloth and finger tighted them. Getting there ~ expect better progress tomorrow as the house will be empty and with any luck, no interuptions unlike today.

[Smike]

Great write-up John

[Fordo]

enjoying this thread John

Nice to see such attention to detail in the way everythings been cleaned.


always liked the K series, despite the general concencus being that if you even so much as look at it funny, the hg goes

If the HG ever does let go in my GF's car, any chance we could hire you and your boys?

[supersingle]

NeMiSiS said:

Enjoying this, bet you can't wait to crack it up, back into life.

Will you drop the oil again after 100 miles or so ?

Yeah, I was going to ask the same question. Do you use some sort of engine flush on it?

You're right about that block, it looks like it would float away!

[Ferg]

Head looks fine, John, but you just KNOW that many, many 'experts' would have skimmed that to death...

I love the 'K', it's a fascinating little engine and is absolutely the right one to live behind my head!

[TRUENOSAM]

I have recently completed the very same job on my sisters ZR. Never really liked Rovers but I found myself aquiring a MG ZS with the KV6 installed yesterday


Nice write up

[T84]

Don't like Rovers but I love your threads, nice to see someone do their own work.

[morgrp]

Whats the success rate like on the new multi layer steel gaskets? do they cure the associate problems of HG failure?

[300bhp/ton]

General Price said:

No interest in Rovers whatsoever but I find myself drawn to your threads.Great write up.

Lots of interest in rovers for me

Great thread John

[MGJohn]

supersingle said:

NeMiSiS said:

Enjoying this, bet you can't wait to crack it up, back into life.

Will you drop the oil again after 100 miles or so ?

Yeah, I was going to ask the same question. Do you use some sort of engine flush on it?

You're right about that block, it looks like it would float away!

Thanks for the positive feedback folks. Yes, I will use diesel grade engine oil in the little engine as Diesel grades have additional slow acting detergents in them to cleanse the dirty diesel engines.

I now do this as a matter of course with any used petrol engined car I buy even if the previous owner assures me the car has just had a service. Over the years, have treated about a dozen used cars to the Diesel Oil treatment... In every instance it has been beneficial. I usually keep the Diesel oil in for about 2-3000 miles then drop it and refresh with 10-40 Semisynthetic. I will not keep it in that long on this car and I'll use an additional flushing agent too just before I drain it.

I will use water only at first in the cooling system and use some of this SPEEDFlush to clear away any old oil lurking in the cooling system which escaped from the damaged cylinder head gasket. When I did this job on a lady friend's R 25 a couple of years ago, it was the worst HGF I've seen on ANY car. The speedflush cleaned out the cooling system very efficiently ~ I had been professionally advised to replace the blocked radiator with a new one but, that flush cleared it good as new...



I left it in the system far longer than the product instructions recommended ~ the oil-coolant mix really blocked the system badly but the flush cleared it near spotless.

This was what that rad looked like when I removed it at first to allow it to drain ....







Why did this very bad so called repeat HG failure occur so soon after it was repaired ?... Whoever repaired it was the FAILure .. they had omitted to fit the essential cylinder head locating dowel nearest the No. 1 Cylinder! That locating dowel serves another essential purpose ~ it contains the high pressure oil supply directly to the DOHC [ Double Overhead Camshafts ]

This shows what I mean ....



Without that essential dowel, the uncontained oil under very high pressure goes everywhere in the engine ...

Back to Diesel Grade treatment.

Benefits:~ Noisy sticking tappets ( Hydraulic Cam Followers ) suddenly become almost silent ... just a gentle rustle rather than that clacketty~clack mullarkey. Better still, some cars benefit showing improved throttle response and acceleration. So does fuel consumption. The diesel oil when dropped hot is usually very black which shows the slow acting diesel oil detergents have done their work.

In addition, when simply changing the old oil for fresh, have you noticed how soon the new oil looks dirty on the dipstick very soon after the oil change? There's always old oil contaminents left in the higher mileage used engines which soon shows in the new oil. Compare that to the new oil following the Diesel grade treatment when the new oil on the dipstick continues to show clear ( less contaminants ) on the dipstick for up to 1000 miles after the change.

Those are my experiences ...
..

[MGJohn]

morgrp said:

Whats the success rate like on the new multi layer steel gaskets? do they cure the associate problems of HG failure?

Success rate ?

Careful preparation of all the components is the more important aspect of these things. That and identifying the causes and reasons for the so called gasket "failure" and rectifying them on any car!

I have fitted two of these MLS gaskets the the little K-Series... 100% success so far ... on a sample of only two!. This will be the third all being well. Care and preparation is the real answer.
..

[MGJohn]

Fordo said:

enjoying this thread John

Nice to see such attention to detail in the way everythings been cleaned.


always liked the K series, despite the general concencus being that if you even so much as look at it funny, the hg goes

If the HG ever does let go in my GF's car, any chance we could hire you and your boys?

Could be ... Whereabouts are you ?

Ferg said:

Head looks fine, John, but you just KNOW that many, many 'experts' would have skimmed that to death...

I love the 'K', it's a fascinating little engine and is absolutely the right one to live behind my head!

You have an Elise ...Yes ...?

..

[Laurel Green]

Great writeup.

Oh and, don't forget the sump-plug.

[MGJohn]

TRUENOSAM said:

I have recently completed the very same job on my sisters ZR. Never really liked Rovers but I found myself aquiring a MG ZS with the KV6 installed yesterday


Nice write up

Excellent choice. Get a nice example and you'll be delighted.

Nice car the ZS ... here's my better half's which we've had from new...



I would have preferred a turbocharged ZS which never appeared ~ would have takem sales from the KV6 I guess but, they put that little K-Series Turbo unit in the Rover 75 and MG ZT .... The little K-Series can and does punch well above its weight but, asking a lot in those larger cars I believe...
.

[Getragdogleg]

You, erm, did change the inlet manifold gasket while the head was off didn't you ? they are made of green cheese and often fail.

But you are a Roverman too so you knew that didn't you ?

[Ferg]

MGJohn said:

You have an Elise ...Yes ...?

..

Wash your mouth out with Diesel Oil....




http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/members/20254-car....

[MGJohn]

Getragdogleg said:

You, erm, did change the inlet manifold gasket while the head was off didn't you ? they are made of green cheese and often fail.

But you are a Roverman too so you knew that didn't you ?

Thanks for the reminder..

Yes, I'm aware of that ~ it will be on my 'to do' list along with new thermostat and water pump plus all three drive belts. Timing, Alternator and Power Steering belts. All have to be removed and refitted when replacing the water Pump. Four birds with one stone. But, first things first ... want to get car up and running first then assess what needs to be done.

Here's where that inlet gasket sometimes wears allowing coolant to enter Cylinder No.4. Coolant loss....It is one of the main causes of gasket damage from the overheated coolant starved engine:~



Nice new one fitted ~ sorted ...:~



This was a lady friend's R 25 ~ may have been the cause of the original 'failure'...

Edited by MGJohn on Monday 1st November 20:35

[MGJohn]

Ferg said:

MGJohn said:

You have an Elise ...Yes ...?

..

Wash your mouth out with Diesel Oil....




http://www.pistonheads.com/pics/members/20254-car....

Hmmm ... looks nice...
..